Folks,
IMAGINE came into my life with a dodger, but no bimini. For various reasons, I doubt I'm going to like the dodger. However, I've had dodgers in the past which I have liked very much. However, dodgers have one serious shortcoming: they're short! They don't shade the whole cockpit. In the south we have a choice: use a bimini for the absolutely required protection from the sun, or just don't sail from May 1 to September 30 (NOT an option). But a bimini can make it nearly impossible to see and trim the main, and it can really make moving around the boat feel awkward and difficult. I have yet to see a bimini that really solves all the problems. I have seen (and owned) biminis with a window in the top to help with trimming the main, but this is at best a compromise, and of course it makes a big hole in the shade! I've also had a slit cut for the backstay so the aft end is positioned better for protecting the helmsman's seat. Then, if it'd long enough to also protect the forward end of the cockpit, it begins to look ridiculously long. If any of you have figured out how to make a bimini work on a CD36 I would love to have your input!
CD36, suggestions WRT bimini/dodger
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
CD36, suggestions WRT bimini/dodger
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
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Bill Cochrane
- Posts: 212
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 13:42
- Location: Cape Dory 36 #114
s/v Phoenix
Like all else on a boat, compromise is involved.
Phoenix is equipped with a hard-top dodger (Wavestopper) and a bimini. The bimini is slotted aft to accommodate the backstay, and extends to about 15-18" aft of the dodger. The front edge of the bimini is about 6" higher than the rear edge of the dodger. There is a removable sunbrella panel that can be snapped to the dodger and zipped to the bimini to cover the gap if/when desired. There is a roughly 12 x 12 window in the top of the bimini that allows viewing teltales on the leech of the main; it's covered with a sunbrella panel attached on all four edges with Velcro.
I find that underway I don't use the bridge panel, as it seriously inhibits my ability to see forward when standing at the helm...my sight line is just over the top of the dodger.
I leave the overhead sunbrella panel in place and find it no problem to pull back a corner for a few seconds to check and adjust sail trim.
Use of the autopilot or windvane as appropriate frees me from a set position behind the wheel and allows me to find shade, most of the time.
Without the bridge panel in place, i.e. underway, moving out of the cockpit and forward is not a problem. The panel adds a bit of bending to entering and leaving the cockpit while at anchor. The only time the bimini gets in the way is when rafting or docking; i.e., securing stern lines. I usually fold it prior to docking (I dock stern to, so need as much freedom of movement as I can obtain).
The bimini uses three bows with a single deck mounting point on either side, and is secured with straps to the stern rail and the grab rail on the rear of the dodger.
Make sure the deck mounts are secure...you will at least inadvertently be using the frame as a handhold when moving about.
Phoenix is equipped with a hard-top dodger (Wavestopper) and a bimini. The bimini is slotted aft to accommodate the backstay, and extends to about 15-18" aft of the dodger. The front edge of the bimini is about 6" higher than the rear edge of the dodger. There is a removable sunbrella panel that can be snapped to the dodger and zipped to the bimini to cover the gap if/when desired. There is a roughly 12 x 12 window in the top of the bimini that allows viewing teltales on the leech of the main; it's covered with a sunbrella panel attached on all four edges with Velcro.
I find that underway I don't use the bridge panel, as it seriously inhibits my ability to see forward when standing at the helm...my sight line is just over the top of the dodger.
I leave the overhead sunbrella panel in place and find it no problem to pull back a corner for a few seconds to check and adjust sail trim.
Use of the autopilot or windvane as appropriate frees me from a set position behind the wheel and allows me to find shade, most of the time.
Without the bridge panel in place, i.e. underway, moving out of the cockpit and forward is not a problem. The panel adds a bit of bending to entering and leaving the cockpit while at anchor. The only time the bimini gets in the way is when rafting or docking; i.e., securing stern lines. I usually fold it prior to docking (I dock stern to, so need as much freedom of movement as I can obtain).
The bimini uses three bows with a single deck mounting point on either side, and is secured with straps to the stern rail and the grab rail on the rear of the dodger.
Make sure the deck mounts are secure...you will at least inadvertently be using the frame as a handhold when moving about.
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mahalocd36
- Posts: 591
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:51
- Location: 1990 CD36 Mahalo #163
- Contact:
not perfect
We have a bimini on Mahalo and love it. You can check out pictures to decide for yourself how it looks, but I did add a window for sail trim. It does have a slit for the backstay. It actually came off Mike Thorpe's CD36, so it's brown, when it's time for replacement I'm pretty much going to make the same thing, maybe make the sides a little longer, out of tan sunbrella to match the dodger. It has a removable cover for the window. I have since found that you can get tinted strataglass (versus clear) so that will go on the new bimini.
There is a connector piece for the dodger we use at anchor.
It does make moving about in and out of the cockpit to go forward but I can't imagine one that wouldn't. The first year we mostly did not deploy it when we were sailing, but one rainy day we left it down and found it to be quite an improvement
So now we sail with it all the time pretty much, keeps out the sun and the rain.
http://www.sailmahalo.com/picture_colle ... Cove_4.JPG
http://sailmahalo.com/picture_collectio ... C_2260.JPG
This one has the connector piece in (old dodger):
http://www.sailmahalo.com/picture_colle ... 100005.JPG
There is a connector piece for the dodger we use at anchor.
It does make moving about in and out of the cockpit to go forward but I can't imagine one that wouldn't. The first year we mostly did not deploy it when we were sailing, but one rainy day we left it down and found it to be quite an improvement
So now we sail with it all the time pretty much, keeps out the sun and the rain. http://www.sailmahalo.com/picture_colle ... Cove_4.JPG
http://sailmahalo.com/picture_collectio ... C_2260.JPG
This one has the connector piece in (old dodger):
http://www.sailmahalo.com/picture_colle ... 100005.JPG
Melissa Abato
www.sailmahalo.com
www.sailmahalo.com
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
bimini and/or dodger
Bill, Melissa, All,
Probably the dodger/bimini combination with the removable bridge/connector is the ultimate solution, with only the dimensions to be tweaked to personal tastes/requirements. But in the interest of a compromise between function and simplicity, I wonder what other options there are for the CD36. A LOOOOOONG time ago I bought a new Catalina 27 and had a very nice bimini built for it. Along with that bimini I had a panel that was like a dodger without a frame. The forward end attached to the house like a regular dodger, but the upper, aft end zipped to the forward end of the bimini. It actually worked very well, but this approach might not work so well on a CD36. The relative dimensions are quite different. The point is, there is more than one way to do things, and I'm often surprised at the really very functional solutions sailors find. I'd like to see more.
Probably the dodger/bimini combination with the removable bridge/connector is the ultimate solution, with only the dimensions to be tweaked to personal tastes/requirements. But in the interest of a compromise between function and simplicity, I wonder what other options there are for the CD36. A LOOOOOONG time ago I bought a new Catalina 27 and had a very nice bimini built for it. Along with that bimini I had a panel that was like a dodger without a frame. The forward end attached to the house like a regular dodger, but the upper, aft end zipped to the forward end of the bimini. It actually worked very well, but this approach might not work so well on a CD36. The relative dimensions are quite different. The point is, there is more than one way to do things, and I'm often surprised at the really very functional solutions sailors find. I'd like to see more.
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
CD36 bimini & dodger
Raven's bimini can be stowed fairly easily, which is a huge plus. I hate to sail with the bimini up as I can't see enough of the main to trim it. The forward frame unclips at the deck and can be lifted to stand about 8" forward of the aft frame. The canvas is then rolled over both frames and enclosed in a zippered canvas cover. I lash this to the backstay.
Raven's boom is raised about 12" higher than its original position. This sacrifices sail area, but not enough to notice under way. The advantage is a higher bimini, which is essential if I am to stand at the helm. (I'm 6'2" tall.)
The bimini has a 12"-square window above the helm, but it is useful for only seeing the masthead fly (for wind direction). It has a roll-up canvas cover to protect the window from UV when not in use. This window is useless for trimming the sail.
The forward edge of the bimini is well forward of the aft end of the dodger. There's a removable Isenglass "windshield-like" panel that can be zippered between the forward edges of the bimini and dodger. It is great at deflecting rain and spray.
Finally, the aft rail of the dodger has a stainless steel grab rail. This is extremely useful for going belowdeck. It is strong enough that I often swing monkey-like onto the companionway steps. It is also useful for more traditional and graceful "going down backwards".
I agree that a bimini is essential for comfort during hot summer days in the south. An easily-removable (while under way) bimini greatly enhances night-sailing.
I have seen one CD36 with a full enclosure. It was well done, but such is not for me. I like the feel of the wind too much and in light-air sailing I sense wind direction on my face.
Good luck with your design.
David
Raven's boom is raised about 12" higher than its original position. This sacrifices sail area, but not enough to notice under way. The advantage is a higher bimini, which is essential if I am to stand at the helm. (I'm 6'2" tall.)
The bimini has a 12"-square window above the helm, but it is useful for only seeing the masthead fly (for wind direction). It has a roll-up canvas cover to protect the window from UV when not in use. This window is useless for trimming the sail.
The forward edge of the bimini is well forward of the aft end of the dodger. There's a removable Isenglass "windshield-like" panel that can be zippered between the forward edges of the bimini and dodger. It is great at deflecting rain and spray.
Finally, the aft rail of the dodger has a stainless steel grab rail. This is extremely useful for going belowdeck. It is strong enough that I often swing monkey-like onto the companionway steps. It is also useful for more traditional and graceful "going down backwards".
I agree that a bimini is essential for comfort during hot summer days in the south. An easily-removable (while under way) bimini greatly enhances night-sailing.
I have seen one CD36 with a full enclosure. It was well done, but such is not for me. I like the feel of the wind too much and in light-air sailing I sense wind direction on my face.
Good luck with your design.
David
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
David,
Did you raise the whole boom parallel to the design position, or just the aft end? I've heard some owners of traditional (relatively low boom) sailboats talk about raising just the aft end of the boom to accommodate a bimini. Of course the sail has to be recut.
What about moving or enlarging the window in the top of the bimini? I wonder what is the minimum location and size that would allow you to see and trim the main. I often sail with my brother out of Mobile. The idea of sailing in the middle of the day in July without the bimini in place is just not something I want to contemplate. However, his setup is obnoxious to me. I can't see the main at all. Of course I'm not captain of that vessel, so I just don't worry about it. We're there for conversation and quality time on the water. Perfect sail trim is secondary. But on my own boat I've never been able to ignore trim.....
Did you raise the whole boom parallel to the design position, or just the aft end? I've heard some owners of traditional (relatively low boom) sailboats talk about raising just the aft end of the boom to accommodate a bimini. Of course the sail has to be recut.
What about moving or enlarging the window in the top of the bimini? I wonder what is the minimum location and size that would allow you to see and trim the main. I often sail with my brother out of Mobile. The idea of sailing in the middle of the day in July without the bimini in place is just not something I want to contemplate. However, his setup is obnoxious to me. I can't see the main at all. Of course I'm not captain of that vessel, so I just don't worry about it. We're there for conversation and quality time on the water. Perfect sail trim is secondary. But on my own boat I've never been able to ignore trim.....
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
Troy:
The gooseneck was moved up about 12" and the mainsail recut. I can't tell you for sure where the cut was made. The previous owner gets all the credit for this design. Two years ago I bought a new North mainsail, which was fitted to current mast/boom measurements. It's a real treat to have a sail that will actually flatten out to depower the rig.
I've seen windows in every conceivable position on biminis. All of them restrict the view. To get good trim I want to see the whole sail and the interplay of the various controls on the mainsail shape.
I understand the heat issue. I sail out of Clear Lake, TX. The bimini goes up in April and stays there until September, unless I do a night passage. Trim suffers, and I just have to contort myself to look up around the outside edge of the bimini. Tacking is where this is such a pain. Still, in the overall scheme of things, it's not too much of a hardship.
David
The gooseneck was moved up about 12" and the mainsail recut. I can't tell you for sure where the cut was made. The previous owner gets all the credit for this design. Two years ago I bought a new North mainsail, which was fitted to current mast/boom measurements. It's a real treat to have a sail that will actually flatten out to depower the rig.
I've seen windows in every conceivable position on biminis. All of them restrict the view. To get good trim I want to see the whole sail and the interplay of the various controls on the mainsail shape.
I understand the heat issue. I sail out of Clear Lake, TX. The bimini goes up in April and stays there until September, unless I do a night passage. Trim suffers, and I just have to contort myself to look up around the outside edge of the bimini. Tacking is where this is such a pain. Still, in the overall scheme of things, it's not too much of a hardship.
David
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
bimini thoughts
David and All,
We are in agreement WRT the bimini being a problem for mainsail trim but a necessity in the South. Maybe somebody will invent a Bimini fabric that's like shadescreen. You could see through it, but it would dim the glare and cut out all UV. Has this been done? I've not seen it.
I'd like to know more about the North Main!
We are in agreement WRT the bimini being a problem for mainsail trim but a necessity in the South. Maybe somebody will invent a Bimini fabric that's like shadescreen. You could see through it, but it would dim the glare and cut out all UV. Has this been done? I've not seen it.
I'd like to know more about the North Main!
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
mesh bimini
Troy:
"Many a true word is spoken in jest", as they say. You might have hit on something.
The side screens that zipper onto Raven's bimini are a combination of Sunbrella (12" deep top half) and coarse mesh (12" deep lower half). They are great for early morning and late evening protection from the low sun and they do not block the breeze. It had never crossed my mind to use the mesh for the bimini. I'm sure such a bimini could be made, but SPF-rating and (abrasion) durability are unknown. Of course, thered be no protection from rain. This fabric is often used over the windows of trawlers and the like to reduce the heating from the sun.
I'm going to delve deeper into this.
Thanks,
David
"Many a true word is spoken in jest", as they say. You might have hit on something.
The side screens that zipper onto Raven's bimini are a combination of Sunbrella (12" deep top half) and coarse mesh (12" deep lower half). They are great for early morning and late evening protection from the low sun and they do not block the breeze. It had never crossed my mind to use the mesh for the bimini. I'm sure such a bimini could be made, but SPF-rating and (abrasion) durability are unknown. Of course, thered be no protection from rain. This fabric is often used over the windows of trawlers and the like to reduce the heating from the sun.
I'm going to delve deeper into this.
Thanks,
David
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Joe CD MS 300
- Posts: 995
- Joined: Jul 5th, '05, 16:18
- Location: Cape Dory Motor Sailor 300 / "Quest" / Linekin Bay - Boothbay Harbor
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
see-through bimini
Joe, do you think you would be able to see/trim the mainsail well enough through that kind of mesh?
Regards,
Troy Scott
Troy Scott
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Joe CD MS 300
- Posts: 995
- Joined: Jul 5th, '05, 16:18
- Location: Cape Dory Motor Sailor 300 / "Quest" / Linekin Bay - Boothbay Harbor
I think you could. Bestop is the name of the manufacturer. The bimini could be designed with a peal back solid flap over the mesh. (Held in place with velcro when pulled back?) The mesh should be strong enough to hold the structure of the frame on its own.
http://www.bestop.com/product_detail.php?id=112&img=11
http://www.bestop.com/product_detail.php?id=112&img=11
Better to find humility before humility finds you.
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Troy Scott
- Posts: 1470
- Joined: Jan 21st, '06, 01:23
- Location: Cape Dory 36 IMAGINE Laurel, Mississippi
Bimini
Another advantage of a bimini is its frame. I realize it is not a good practice. However the bimini framework has stopped my freefall over the side a few times. For us old guys it is also a place to grab/hold onto for balance.
My bimini is pretty much as described by Bob Cochrane, with the exception that mine has a solid stern tube running from the rear bow to the stern rail, which gives the structure more rigidity/strength.
My bimini is pretty much as described by Bob Cochrane, with the exception that mine has a solid stern tube running from the rear bow to the stern rail, which gives the structure more rigidity/strength.
