Stranded in Azores need Cutlass Bearing for 25D

[odie lingle]

Can someone tell me where to get a cutlass bearing and the correct size (and maybe part #?) for a 25D. If I had the correct size that would be a big help. Also if I am doing this job should I also replace? or service? or check in some way the stuffing box at the same time? I have read several posts about cutlass bearings in the arcvhives but not the specific information I need.

I am not sure the cutlass bearing is the problem but I am having the boat hauled this week to check it. The shaft seems firm, with little or no play, but when I put the boat in gear it makes a terrible racket and the prop does not turn. So maybe the set screws that hold the cutlass bearing have stripped? Do not know when it was replaced or serviced last. I feel the transmission is okay, had it checked by a mechanic and it and the engine were knew last year, Yanmar 1GM. Any other suggestions for the source of my problem are appreciated.

I am in the Azores on the island of Faial in the city of Horta. Unfortunately we don't have the luxury of next day UPS here. So if anyone has any ideas about how to get a part here quickly from the US would appreciate that information also. My mechanic is checking in Lisbon and London but apparently because of red tape it can take a minimum of two weeks and I wish to get on my way to Ireland in a week or ten days if possible.

The Azores are not a bad place to be stuck though..............

Thank you for your help,

Odie

[Bill Goldsmith]

You need the Morse BLACKFISH or any similar quality bearing with 1" ID, 1 1/4 in OD and 4 " length

Here is the West Marine listing:
Shaft Bearing - 1"ID; 1 1/4"OD; 4"L
Model # 381467
BLACKFISH
$112.99 USD

You may want to see if your engine has slipped badly out of alignment.

[John Ring]

$113? You gotta love West. Hamilton Marine sells them for $52. Link: http://store.hamiltonmarine.com/browse.cfm/4,3142.html

I just replace mine, same size; 1x1.25x4. Is the CD25D also 1x1.25x4?

Happy Motoring,
John

[Bill Goldsmith]

You bet. And Hamilton would probably be easier to deal with regarding arranging an international delivery. Personal service.

WM's strong suit is having locations near just about every decent-sized marina in the US and Canada, at a price.

[Cathy Monaghan]

I just changed mine. I got a good deal from Boatman's I-net Marine, it only cost me $34.80 plus S&H but I don't think that sale price is still in effect:

http://www.inetmarine.com/

Anyway, you'll find it at other online sources. Just Google "Morse Blackfish bearing".

Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Neil Gordon]

Odie,

I'm curious where your cruise starts and stops.

[seadawg]

I really don't see the cutless bearing preventing the prop from turning. You need to look aft of the transmission while it is in gear and see if the prop shaft is turning. Possibilities: broken shaft, missing key or stripped in the prop or transmission output flange or maybe I am not interpreting the proplem correctly. Charlie

[John Vigor]

I'm with Charlie Seadawg. A worn Cutless bearing wouldn't stop the prop from turning, and is not likely to make a terrible racket when the engine is put in gear.

If the boat is still in the water, and you cannot see the prop, are you quite sure it isn't turning? Have you looked inside the port locker to see if the propeller shaft is turning when you put her in gear? If the shaft IS turning but you get no forward motion, then the prop is not turning. Maybe the shaft key has slipped out or fractured because the prop has been fouled by a line. In that case the shaft would be grinding away while the prop stood still.

My first inclination would be to suspect a transmission problem, but you say it's a new engine and a new transmission, so that's unlikely, but not impossible. I would think that anyone putting in a new engine would take the advantage to put in a new Cutless bearing and flax stuffing at the same time, but maybe the shaft wasn't removed.

You might as well order the Cutless bearing. A spare one is always a good idea on a voyage like yours. But I think you'll get a more definite answer to the problem when you haul out and can get a better look at everything.

Did you cross the Atlantic in your 25D? Alone, or with crew? Either way it sounds like quite an accomplishment and I'm sure we all wish you well and hope for a quick and happy ending to your present predicament.

Fair winds and good landfalls,

John Vigor

[odie lingle]

thank you all for your help and quick replies. I knew I could count on this board to help me.

I left Port Charlotte, Florida last May, down thru Marathon and up to West Palm Beach. Then sailed 1000 miles to Bermuda, spent a couple of weeks there and then 2000 more miles to the Azores. Was headed to Ireland but ran out of time and left my boat in the Marina in Horta for the winter and just got back to her a couple of weeks ago. This is the marina where they paint the pictures on the wall. I am the smallest foreign boat in the harbor and one of the few Americans, lots of British, French, Dutch, and Scandanavians. Lin and Larry Pardey called here in 1976 and there were 16 boats in the harbor, now there are several hundred.

I have single handed the whole way, it has been a very difficult journey but very wothwhile. I'm not a very good sailor but I'm learning.

thank you again and I will let you know how it turns out. And if you have any other suggestions for what my problem might me let me know. I feel good about the people helping me though, Duncan Sweet with Mid Atlantic Yacht Service (MAYS). If you've read about the Azores you have probably heard of them and they are as good as the guide books say.

[VegaIII]

Odie--

I would say it is quite an accomplishment to have taken your CD-25 all the way to the Azores--the most off-shore I usually get is 100 miles or so.

Re: cutlass bearing. It does not sound like a cutlass bearing to me either. Have you checked the shaft coupling? The following happened to me on my CD-27.

The engine began making a funny "thumping" sound not all of the sudden and not so loud that I did anything other than decide I needed to check the engine alignment and engine mounts. (It sounded like a washing machine when the load in the hamper is not evenly distributed).

On leaving my mooring a day or so later I put the engine in reverse, there was an even louder noise, and then engine began racing. It would not go forward either. I quickly raised the sail and got back on the mooring.

I turned out that the shaft coupling had completely separated from the transmission. There are four bolts holding the shaft to the coupling. Apparently, over time two or three of these bolts had worked their way loose (I found them subsequently below the shaft). Finally, with only one bolt holding the shaft to the coupling, it too vibrated free and let go. Hence the noise and vibration and then "nothing." The good news is that 1) it didn't happen while I was off-shore; and 2) the whole shaft didn't exit the boat--also there appeared to have been little damage that resulted from the shaft vibration. Four new bolts, well secured with "lock-tight" and I was back in business.

I now check the shaft coupling twice a season. There is so much vibration inherently in the the 1GM that it is a miracle that I hadn't see this problem earlier.

You may just want to check the shaft coupling.

[seadawg]

Another possibility I thought of last night that might save a haul out. You said the engine and trans was replaced last year. The transmission shift lever could be miss-adjusted or its position could have slipped causing non mesh or dragging of the internal gear drive. Alot of us would sure like to put an eyeball on your problem but good luck. Charlie

[Russell]

A worn cutlass bearing, extreamly badly worn, can indeed make a lot of noises that would make one easy, but the prop would certainly be spinning (if the prop is not spinning the cutless bearing certainly wouldnt cause any noise). I dont think the cutless bearing is your problem unless the prop is moving and you are not aware of it.

Can you spin the prop by hand from the inside with the tranny in neautral? In that cold water there I would check from the inside before diving to make sure the prop is clear! Since your hauling anyways, I would personally pass on that trip overboard reguardless.


If in looking behind the engine, nothing is blatantly obvious (coupling, stuffing box, etc....) then I suspect your transmission itsself. (see my own transmission fun I am about to post in another thread).

[Cathy Monaghan]

If you haven't done so already, you may want to inspect the prop and make sure that nothing is wrapped around it and/or the shaft. Do you have a wet suit?

Also, have you checked the transmission oil level? What about the oil itself? Some transmissions require oil and others ATF and they must not be substituted one for the other.

Anyway, these are somewhat easy things to inspect before having to deal with the expense of hauling the boat.


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[odie lingle]

thankyou again for all of your input. I did have the boat hauled yesterday, again things are not so easy as in the states, so I had to grab the chance when I had it. They have a lift but stands and a spot on dry land are a problem so sometimes you can wait a week or two to get hauled. We got the shaft out last night and will probably take the cutlass bearing out today. The new one will hopefully be here today or Monday.

I am still not 100% sure the cutlass bearing is the problem but the mechanic (and I trust him) feels that he has eliminated everthying else, transmission etc.

When we hauled the boat I could see about a quarter of an inch of space on the shaft between the boat and the zinc anode. Is this normal?

The shaft seems to be worn at this point. I never noticed it before but wonder if when I had the new engine and transmission installed last year they didn't fit exactly and it caused the shaft to protrude a little more than it normally would. The engine did set on the same footprint as the old one but we used the old engine mounts because the new ones would have made the engine too high (I think, I can't remember exactly what the mechanic said but he couldn't use the new mounts without making some modifications).

Also how does the water get up in to the packing gland to lubricate it? My mechanic thinks there should be some kind of cup or scoop that would transfer the water upward?

I read in the archives that there are two set screws which must be removed to take the cutlass bearing out. Can anyone give me an aproxiamate location.........how far back from the end of the bearing and if they are at a 90 degree angle on either side?

Again thank you for your input and I will let you know how this turns out. My fellow sailors in the marina are anxious to know too..............

Odie

[Russell]

Now that the boat is out, a simple way to test the cutless bearing is to grab the prop/shaft with your hands and give it a good push/pull side to side. You shouldnt not sense any play if the bearing is good. If you can move it side to side then the bearing is obviously worn. But if you are pulling everrything out anyways then you will know when you see the inside of the bearing.

A quarter inch of space between the anode and the end of the stern tube? Are you using a collar anode? This is WAY too little space to allow enough water to circulate into the bearing.

I would be seriously suspect of your mechanics abilities if he does not understand how a stuffing box works. No cup or scoop is needed, water enters via the cutless bearing, if he does not know or understand this I am not sure I would put an ounce of faith into him.

The set screws should be located to either side of the stern tube. While I have not seen the 25Ds setup specificly, ussually the stern tube extends back from hull a couple inches (its either bronze or fibreglass). On each side of this you should see allen head set screws. If you have been in the water a long time it just may be a matter of cleaning all the growth off before you can see them.

Since you did recently repower, you might indeed have an alignment issue which wore your cutless bearing out. If you do find your bearing is worn after all, be sure you correct the source of the problem or you will find yourself in the same spot next year again.