Water in cabin, head seacock left open

[Warren Kaplan]

I went to my boat today and found a large puddle occupying the cabin sole. Examination traced it to an overflowing head holding tank, even though the head was emptied for the winter and hasn't been used yet this season. Further investigation showed that the seacock providing raw water to the head was open. Also, the valve on the manual pump to the toilet bowl was set on water flush rather than "pump dry" (to pump the bowl dry after actually flushing). I had some work done on the boat and I know that the yard guys must have left them open because I take great care in closing all my seacocks and valves after each and every sail.

The seacock, the bowl and the holding tank are below sea level. I found water coming out of weep holes in the overflowing holding tank. I found the toilet bowl filled to almost overflowing.


It was windy this past week. I think water sort of "siphoned in" and filled the toilet. Then, like a land based bowl, when the bowl filled enough it flushed into the tank. When the tank filled it over flowed.

I pumped the holding tank out. I closed the seacock and set the manual valve to pump dry. I was at the boat a good three hours after and everything remained dry and the bowl stayed "dry" too.

Does this sound like a plausible answer to what I found? Can leaving a below sea level seacock open that leads to a below sea level bowl and holding tank cause what I saw?

CLOSE THOSE SEACOCKS GUYS. ESPECIALLY TO ANYTHING THAT'S BELOW SEA LEVEL!!

I'd welcome any opinons or comments on this!

Thanks,

Warren

[Al Levesque]

My younger brother had a Bristol 33 sink to the bottom at his slip in the marina. He found the same open valves as you mentioned and no other problem with hull integrity. I'm glad you visited the boat as soon as you did.

[Mark Yashinsky]

Is your holding tank in the port V berth area? If so, would have thought leaking from the holding tank would go under the sole and into the bilge. Was the puddle near teh head? Would think possible sloshing from the head (completely open top) would have been more likely.
Also, remember, that any hose below the water line is pressurized up to the current level of the water, outside, from teh water trying to force its way in. How much of the head and head bowl, is below the current water line? How many threads talked about about water coming in from teh scuppers on the smaller CD's (25?), when the boat was heeled.
With all this in mind, what about all of us that have cockpit scuppers, that go thru hoses to seacocks below the waterline.
Glad to hear that it was not worse!!

[Bob Owens]

Warren,
Two summers ago I had a close call that was almost a carbon copy of yours. Used the head before sailing off our mooring, forgot to close the intake seacock, with the head lever in flush position. Fortunately it was a fairly calm day and before long we heard a sloshing sound down below and discovered the toilet bowl filled to the brim with raw water which was just beginning to spill onto the cabin sole.
Best,
Bob

[Breault5]

I read this post with interest as I am getting ready to install a new head. If I were to install a vented loop high above the waterline, on the water intake of the head, would this be a fix to this potential tragedy?

Wow - Good thing you caught this when you did!

[Bob Owens]

Such a loop should prevent the problem, but be sure your head pump is powerful enough to draw water in through all that additional hose length and height. You would have to pump up a 3-4-foot vertical rise to get above water line. I have such a vented loop on the exhaust side of my system, which is why my holding tank--unlike Warren's apparently--did not fill with water in the same situation, and my pump does push the water up that loop ok. Simply closing the intake seacock after each use will prevent the problem. And on my system, even with the seacock open, if the flush lever is in "pump dry" position the water will not seep in--though that little mechanism should not be relied on by itself.
Bob

[rtbates]

I'd venture a guess that far more boats end up on the bottom at their slip because of exactly what you describe than by any other source. I know of two myself. It would have been three IF you had been away much longer.
I'm always amassed by the number of folks who never close a seacock. Like you, mine are never open except when needed. The 25D close at hand head seacock is a very good design IMHO. I've been told by numerous folks that the reason they leave their seacocks open all the time is because they are very difficult to reach.

Glad you got to her in time!

[Joe Myerson]

Warren,

When my boat was launched for the first time, four seasons ago, the new kid at the yard forgot to close the head seacock and left the flush valve in the "up" position.

My boat was in the process of sinking at the slip. Luckily, I wanted to show my new boat to my 80-plus year-old father. I opened the companionway so he could see inside, and he asked, "Is your boat supposed to be full of water like this?"

Since he is a WWII Navy vet, I assumed he was joking. He wasn't.

The yard was closed for the weekend, but another boater and I closed the seacocks and bailed her out. The veneer on the cabin sole has never recovered from that dunkinig.

Lots of lessons learned!

--Joe

[Warren Kaplan]

Happy to say that I went out for the 2008 season's shakedown cruise today. When I arrived today the boat was dry. Sailed all day and at the end of the day the boat was still dry. So, I guess the seacock/head pump valve scenario was the cause of the flooding in my boat.

Again, let's all learn a lesson from this. Make sure all your seacocks are closed after your sailing is done for the day!!

[Derek Matheson]

Don't leave the handle in the "flush dry" position. The small plastic valve insert will set in this position and will need replacing within a couple months. Yes, leaving in other position will allow the bowl to overflow. Yes, shut the inlet seacock when not in use.

[Al Levesque]

I hadn't thought about a plastic valve taking set. Ours is the Groco HF and the valve is loaded by a coil spring. We always leave our valve in the dry position and only open it while someone is actively pumping. The metal spring has the ability to withstand that without taking a set. As a result, we are able to to keep both valves closed. (Our locked-prop conservatism is exposed!)

[Mike Raehl]

Warren,
The very first time I launched my "new" CD27, I stayed overnight to rig for a shakedown sail the next day. While I was on my cell phone telling my wife how excited I was to actually be on my new boat in the water, I noticed that the bilge pump was coming on every couple of minutes. You guessed it.... the head bowl was overflowing to the cockpit floor and then down into the bilge. The seacock and the flush handle were both open. The PO had a porta potty on board and "never used" the head / holding tank.

I have since replaced the head with a new Groco HF and added a vented loop between the manual pump and the bowl. This setup primes the pump since both seacock and pump are below the water line and, it allows the pump to push water over the loop with sufficient force to rinse the bowl. Per an earlier post, the pump did not have enough vacuum to pull water over a vented loop between the seacock and the pump.

Our practise is as recommended above, to close both the seacock and the flush valve except when actually using the pump.

[Sandy D.]

This same scenario happened to me my first season with the boat.

Another show stopper is the seal in your water pump. I had left the engine fresh water intake open. The seal went bad in the water pump,a couple days later there was 2-3 inches of water above the floor boards. Now I close both fresh water valves to the head and motor. Lessons learned!