removal of head thru-hull fittings on CD25

[butterflier]

Has anyone encountered the problem of removing the thru hull fitting for the head on a CD 25? What tool is there to prevent the fitting from turning as the seacock is being loosened inside the boat. The step wrenches I have seen for sale recommend using them only for replacing thru hulls, not removing them. What type of backing plate is advisable to insert on the inside of the hull. The original had no backing plate, just the fitting screwed into the seacock. Thanks

[Sea Owl]

As it happens, I am in the process of doing that exact thing on my CD25. I am no expert, but can only relate what I did and how I did it. My '76 CD25 had what appeared to be an 'original' head, with no holding tank when I bought it just over a year ago.

The ball valves (?Not seacocks, the Cape Dory "faucet handles"!!) were frozen solid. Better yet, the 'exhaust' for the head (port side inside the bunk) seeped at the bottom edge of the locking ring.

After staring at it ad nauseum, reading a lot on this board about thru hull replacement/repair, and going to other sites, I finally took the plunge.

Step One was taking out the head, and removing the hoses. Got that done without hurting myself or the boats, so gave myself high marks there.

Step Two - debated 'cutting' the exhaust thru hull out, but decided instead to try 'dismantling' the valve and the thru hull before doing anything else. Went to WestMarine, and roaming around, saw a tool designed to fit on the locking nut, that also would work well to remove the valve. Was about (as I remember) $32. Then went to Lowe's plumbing, found adjustable version for house plumbing for $15 and bought that. Got back to Sea Owl, cringed, applied wrench to valve, and applied firm hard pressure, and then more pressure. Stopped, let blood pressure drop, and tried again. Oila! The valve began turning. Next thing I know, the valve is off, and I am left with a thru hull that has not moved, and the locking nut, but looking good.

Step Three - decided that worked so well, to try loosening the lock nut and let the thru hull fend for itself. Applied wrench, and to my amazement, with a LOT grunting, the nut loosened, and is now off, along with a plastic (??) 'washer' (for want of a better term) and all that is left is the thru hull itself. Probably installed with 3M 5200, spot welded, and fiberglassed in with my luck. Also, interestingly enough, it appears (and I still have to clean a fair amount of sealant away) that there is what may be a metal 'case' around the thru hull - what I can see looks like a metal washer with holes in it, embedded in the hull itself. Haven't seen anyone write about that before....

At this point, have to clean off all old sealant and identify seep source for sure, and decide whether to pull thru hull or not. I know some of the other very knowledgeable sailors on the board will urge me to replace it, but I am on a budget, and the thru hull, having tolerated all this, and looking at the metal where the threads are, and having tapped it, seems to only have a modicum of green on the surface, and otherwise be in good shape. I am thinking of resealing interior, and capping thru hull, as I am putting in a porta-head for ease of maintenance.

Bottom line, if you get to this point, my shipwright source tells me that some thru hulls of this age might just fall apart depending on how much water time they have. Mine was a dockyard queen on the hard for some time, so doesn't have as much in water time as, say, a Southern boat that is in year round and has been all its life. A search will suggest to you several techniques for removing the actual thru hull at this point. Key is to get the right tool!! And if yours is original and as solidly installed as mine, you won't need a step wrench to get everything off of it!

Good luck!

[Carl Thunberg]

Butterflier,

The set-up you're talking about with the ball-valve with no backing plate is typical for the CD25. It's not ideal, but typical. I replaced three of the through-hulls on my CD25 before I sold it (depth/speed logs & sink drain ball valve). If I had kept the boat one more year, I would have replaced the last two seacocks. I also found that metal ring Sea Owl was talking about. It showed no signs of leakage, so I left well enough alone.

I don't have any words of wisdom on removing the old through hull. It's just work. It'll come off. Personally, I knew I wasn't going to keep the old through-hull fittings, so I saved a few bucks and didn't buy the wrench. I removed them using channel locks. It helps to have two people, one inside and one out.

For the replacement ball valve I used a bronze Apollo ball valve with a three-screw flange. I couldn't justify the expense of a Spartan seacock on a CD25. By the way, Apollo's primary business is making regular household brass ball valves. Make sure the ball valve is bronze and is specifically rated for marine use. They do make them. I won't enter the debate about marelon seacocks. Some people swear by them and some people swear at them. I don't have any first-hand experience with them.

I made a backing plate out of 1/2-inch marine plywood and coated it liberally with West System epoxy. I then threaded the ball valve down onto the new through-hull fitting snug against the backing plate. Make sure the hole in the center is big enough to fit over the nut on the inboard side of the through-hull fitting. I chickened out and did NOT bolt the flange through the hull, which is the correct way to do it. This was strictly a personal decision based on my own reluctance to drill more holes in my boat. Good luck. This really is not a difficult project, and it's one that gives a lot of satisfaction in the end.

[Dave Brandt]

When I pulled mine I made a steel bar that fit into the outside of the through hull to hold it in place. There were tabs on the inside of the through hull the the steel bar could catch on and I held the bar with a cresent wrench. I think I used a channel lock to loosen the inside nut. It's a two person job, but worked well for removal and install.

Dave

[Tom Keevil]

Here's the method we used to remove a recalcitrant through hull. The nuts came off ok, but it was bedded with something very tough.

You need a long bolt, a nut, two big fender washers, and four small pieces of wood. Drill holes through two of the wood pieces to fit the bolt. Run the bolt and a washer through one of these from the inside through the through hull. On the outside put two thick pieces of wood against the hull (we used 2x4's), and the last wood piece across these two with the bolt through it. Put on the last washer and the nut. Now tighten the nut, and the through hull will slowly but surely be pulled out of the hull. You might want to lubricate the threads of the bolt, as they are subjected to a lot of force.

[Sea Owl]

Tom;

Good idea, thank you!

[Steve Laume]

Bronze thru hulls bonded with 5200 are a good thing. You don't have to hold onto the thru hull to keep it from turning while you loosen the retaining nut. When you want to remove the through hull a bit of heat on the metal will ease that puppy right out like it was bedded in butter, Steve.

[John B]

Last year when my CD25 was already in the water...I had to replace a cracked/plastic through hull fitting a few inches above the water line (from bilge pump). I 5200'd a brass through hull fitting into place....in rather imperfect conditions. This spring, while on the hard (obviously) I plan to remove and install it in order to apply some penetrating epoxy around the circumference of the hole....then re-5200 it ....just for piece of mind....the fitting is sometimes under water when heeled over.

Is this a good idea? any advice?

Thanks

John

[Ron M.]

There is no balsa core in the hull area so I'm not sure what penetrating epoxy will accomplish. A backing block for the through hull fitting is a good idea. You would need a new mushroom however, as the one you remove will not be long enough with a backing block. I installed blocks on all my seacocks a few years ago. Used 1/2" frp w/4200.
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VOLCANO REVIEW

[John B]

I guess the penatrating epoxy would make me feel better...perhaps thats all.

It seems that it would do no harm.

[butterflier]

Saturday the thru-hull fittings finally were removed. Thanks for all the good advice. The intake was the harder job. I loosened the valve from the inside while a friend of mine held on to the very thin thru hull fitting with a channel lock from the outside.

The large valve popped off immediately after I chiseled off the plastic thru hull from the outside. Now I will replace them with new valves. Any suggestions? Once again, thanks.

Butterflier

[Sea Owl]

Butterflier;

There are a number of good sources for thru hulls, depending on how bad you want them. West Marine sells a 1 1/2" bronze through hull for about $50, available as soon as you pay for it. Probably can find cheaper elsewhere, just have to wait for shipping. There are a large number of historical posts on seacocks, if you are re-installing them. I am using a porta potty instead of an actual head, so am just capping the 3/4" intake and 1 1/2" exhaust.

Here's a tip I learned in just re-seating/installing one of my thru hulls. The first time I did it, having been VERY tired of the seeping I had before, I felt that if a little 4200 was good, then a LOT would be better! Ummm....not so! I am sure a lot of the owners with more experience are nodding thier head and smiling at this one! You want enough on the inside rim of the bell (the part that stays outside of the boat) to seal, but not so much that when you snug it up, it squeezes up and onto the locking nut. I wound up with a modest amount of 4200 getting onto the locking nut (I am sure there is a proper term for this, but I haven't the foggiest what it is!), which meant once the 4200 'set', it was next to impossible to tighten! Fortunately, I was able to eventually break it free without wrecking and having to redo the bond that was important, but it is something to watch for! I am in the process of refurbishing/cleaning the intake through hull, prior to re-installing. Thanks to the many sharing board folks, this has been overall a very positive experience for me, and I look forward to a season with no seeping, and confidence that it will stay that way!