Hi,
How many inches should there be between the keel guides for a Typhoon. Would like to add to trailer before hauling boat out.
Thanks and fair winds
Tom
Typhoon keel guides
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Keel Guides For A Ty
Hi Tom,
My Triad trailer has a 2" x 10" x 51" long steel channel iron fastened to the trailer cross beams.
Because of the broad, rounded edges of the keel, this channel iron guide doesn't cut it when trying to keep the keel aligned with the center of the trailer.
My trailer has the vertical walls of the guide extended upward with a wooden 2" x 6" x 54" treated lumber plank on either side. The wooden planks extend 3" farther foreward than the steel channel. The front edges of the wooden guides are located 12" foreward of the center of the axle.
The vertical, wooden guide extensions are bolted to vertical angle irons, whose lower ends are welded to the trailers cross members.
There is one other thing that you might wish to consider while you load the boat on the trailer in a cross wind. There are at least two things that you can do that are effective under windy conditions. Some boat owners have vertical guide posts bolted to the rear, outer, trailer frames. The winch in front at the trailer tongue tends to keep the boat's bow centered. The vertical guide posts, with/without rollers, keep the stern from falling off due to a cross wind and helps maintain center.
As you have already probably noticed, there isn't very much keel in the bow for the trailer guides to have an effect. The Ty has to be about one third of the way onto the trailer before the guides start to do their thing. What I have on my Triad is an extension of the wooden guides reaching towards aft. They, too, are made of 2" x 6" stock, 38" long.
This aft extension of the keel guide has two distinctive features. It now takes the shape of a vee and acts to funnel the bow into the trailer's center. Because, as was previously mentioned, the keel in the bow is cut away, the front of the guide's aft extension is even with the rest of the guide heigtwise, and it's aft end is raised at least 8" in order to help guide the hull's bow, which is higher than the keel proper. The aft end reaches to the trailer side beams and is about 56" wide at the mouth of the vee.
If I have confused anyone, feel free to contact me and I shall try to unravel what I have attempted to describe.
Good luck,
O J
My Triad trailer has a 2" x 10" x 51" long steel channel iron fastened to the trailer cross beams.
Because of the broad, rounded edges of the keel, this channel iron guide doesn't cut it when trying to keep the keel aligned with the center of the trailer.
My trailer has the vertical walls of the guide extended upward with a wooden 2" x 6" x 54" treated lumber plank on either side. The wooden planks extend 3" farther foreward than the steel channel. The front edges of the wooden guides are located 12" foreward of the center of the axle.
The vertical, wooden guide extensions are bolted to vertical angle irons, whose lower ends are welded to the trailers cross members.
There is one other thing that you might wish to consider while you load the boat on the trailer in a cross wind. There are at least two things that you can do that are effective under windy conditions. Some boat owners have vertical guide posts bolted to the rear, outer, trailer frames. The winch in front at the trailer tongue tends to keep the boat's bow centered. The vertical guide posts, with/without rollers, keep the stern from falling off due to a cross wind and helps maintain center.
As you have already probably noticed, there isn't very much keel in the bow for the trailer guides to have an effect. The Ty has to be about one third of the way onto the trailer before the guides start to do their thing. What I have on my Triad is an extension of the wooden guides reaching towards aft. They, too, are made of 2" x 6" stock, 38" long.
This aft extension of the keel guide has two distinctive features. It now takes the shape of a vee and acts to funnel the bow into the trailer's center. Because, as was previously mentioned, the keel in the bow is cut away, the front of the guide's aft extension is even with the rest of the guide heigtwise, and it's aft end is raised at least 8" in order to help guide the hull's bow, which is higher than the keel proper. The aft end reaches to the trailer side beams and is about 56" wide at the mouth of the vee.
If I have confused anyone, feel free to contact me and I shall try to unravel what I have attempted to describe.
Good luck,
O J
Ty Trailer Question
John,
I also have a Triad trailer for my Typhoon. Last week, I had it hauled and loaded on the trailer. It was nice and straight and seemingly secure but when I got home - about 25 miles - I noticed that the boat had shifted so the keel was no longer straight. The bow moved out of the rubber vee designed to hold it. All is tight and secure and I don't see where it can go anywhere. I am wondering if I should try and shove it back over or just leave it for the 25 mile ride back in the Spring. I don't want to hurt anything trying to shove it back to straight.
The only small problem is that I cannot remove the keel guide on one side to paint because the keel is pushed right up against in in the back.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Gary
I also have a Triad trailer for my Typhoon. Last week, I had it hauled and loaded on the trailer. It was nice and straight and seemingly secure but when I got home - about 25 miles - I noticed that the boat had shifted so the keel was no longer straight. The bow moved out of the rubber vee designed to hold it. All is tight and secure and I don't see where it can go anywhere. I am wondering if I should try and shove it back over or just leave it for the 25 mile ride back in the Spring. I don't want to hurt anything trying to shove it back to straight.
The only small problem is that I cannot remove the keel guide on one side to paint because the keel is pushed right up against in in the back.
Thanks for any suggestions.
Gary
-
Tom W
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Dec 27th, '06, 20:26
- Location: 1978 Typhoon Weekender/Cajun Moon/Chattanooga,Tn.
Typhoon keel guides
John,
From previous postings and pics I had apretty good idea of what was needed but I lacked the measurements.
I too used 2x6 treated lumber cut to 66"because my trailer has brackets that can be used to attach the vertical supports. The brackets are 34'' apart with 10" toward the bow beyond the bracket and 21" to the rear of the bracket. How high should the top of the "vertical walls" extend above the keel board? Knowing this, I can then cut the vertical supports and bolt them to the trailer.On your trailer what is the measurement between the vertical walls?
John, thanks very much for the quick response and the suggestion for the aft extension.
Tom
From previous postings and pics I had apretty good idea of what was needed but I lacked the measurements.
I too used 2x6 treated lumber cut to 66"because my trailer has brackets that can be used to attach the vertical supports. The brackets are 34'' apart with 10" toward the bow beyond the bracket and 21" to the rear of the bracket. How high should the top of the "vertical walls" extend above the keel board? Knowing this, I can then cut the vertical supports and bolt them to the trailer.On your trailer what is the measurement between the vertical walls?
John, thanks very much for the quick response and the suggestion for the aft extension.
Tom
-
Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Recentering The Keel On The Trailer
Hi Gary,
There are several ways to skin this cat. But first, let's talk a bit of why the hull shifted and what can be done to prevent this from happening again.
If you notice closely, your trailer is mounted on leaf springs, not coil springs. Unlike your car or truck, the trailer isn't equipped with shock absorbers. As the boat is towed, the trailer has a tendency to bounce. The amount of the bouncing action and it's frequency is exacerbated in direct proportion to the speed and the roughness of the road. The bouncing motion of the trailer contributes to the boat dancing on it's supports
Gary, was the boat strapped down securely to the trailer? Was it lashed down tightly to prevent any motion of the boat when resting on the trailer supports? My way of thinking is that the boat and trailer should move as one, no slack, no play.
I use adjustable web straps which have a built-in ratchet for snugging up. I not only use strapping to hold the boat down, I also secure the hull at an angle, much like using spring lines, to prevent the hull from dancing backwards and having the stem come loose from the vee support.
Assuming that the bow is still pretty much centered in the vee support, we are talking of shifting only the aft section of the hull. Are there any suitable trees in the area with a branch sticking out about 10 or 12 feet off the ground, something like you would use for a child's rope swing?
The idea is to use the branch as a gallows to support a sling to lift the stern of the hull and swing it to center of the trailer. If you go this route, before you put any weight on the branch, measure the distance from the outer limb to the ground. Scab together some 2x4s to make a deadman support to keep the limb from sagging when a load is placed on it. Attach a choker or basket sling over the limb to support a come-along to hoist the stern. Plumb down to the center of the trailer guide to find the location to position the sling. As the stern rises, pendulum action will move the keel to the center of the guide. Release and lower the hull.
If there isn't a suitable tree to use, you can borrow or rent a two section high construction scaffold. Using pieces of plywood or old lumber, use them under the legs of the scaffold to prevent sinking in the earth. Erect the scaffold over the stern. On the top level of the scaffold, lay several sections of scaffold plank over the stern to support the lifting sling. Use the scaffold planks instead of a tree branch.
I hesitate to mention the next method to some people who are not noted for their mechanical ability. If done right, it works fine, but you have to use lots of common sense to pull it off.
On your Triad, there is a section of cross bracing that's cut away to facilitate servicing the rudder. The tools and material necessary are a one ton bottle jack, two pieces of 1/2" or 3/4" pipe (not tubing), two pieces of 2"x 8" about a foot long and one piece of hardwood 2"x 6" about 10" or 12" long. That's it.
So we're all on the same page, the trailer and boat are lying north and south. Place one of the pieces of 2"x8" on the ground under the keel, ahead of the rudder in an east-west direction.. On this board, lay the two pieces of pipe, north-south, several inches apart. On top of the pipes, lay the second 2"x 8" board east-west. In order to hold everything in position, you can tap 16# nails in the bottom plate, to be removed when the operation begins.
Place the bottle jack on top of the second board and the hardwood 2"x 6" between the ram of the bottle jack and the keel. As the jack is raised, the bottom of the keel will raise above the keel guide. With little effort, the aft end of the keel will roll sideways on the pipes.
Good luck,
O J
There are several ways to skin this cat. But first, let's talk a bit of why the hull shifted and what can be done to prevent this from happening again.
If you notice closely, your trailer is mounted on leaf springs, not coil springs. Unlike your car or truck, the trailer isn't equipped with shock absorbers. As the boat is towed, the trailer has a tendency to bounce. The amount of the bouncing action and it's frequency is exacerbated in direct proportion to the speed and the roughness of the road. The bouncing motion of the trailer contributes to the boat dancing on it's supports
Gary, was the boat strapped down securely to the trailer? Was it lashed down tightly to prevent any motion of the boat when resting on the trailer supports? My way of thinking is that the boat and trailer should move as one, no slack, no play.
I use adjustable web straps which have a built-in ratchet for snugging up. I not only use strapping to hold the boat down, I also secure the hull at an angle, much like using spring lines, to prevent the hull from dancing backwards and having the stem come loose from the vee support.
Assuming that the bow is still pretty much centered in the vee support, we are talking of shifting only the aft section of the hull. Are there any suitable trees in the area with a branch sticking out about 10 or 12 feet off the ground, something like you would use for a child's rope swing?
The idea is to use the branch as a gallows to support a sling to lift the stern of the hull and swing it to center of the trailer. If you go this route, before you put any weight on the branch, measure the distance from the outer limb to the ground. Scab together some 2x4s to make a deadman support to keep the limb from sagging when a load is placed on it. Attach a choker or basket sling over the limb to support a come-along to hoist the stern. Plumb down to the center of the trailer guide to find the location to position the sling. As the stern rises, pendulum action will move the keel to the center of the guide. Release and lower the hull.
If there isn't a suitable tree to use, you can borrow or rent a two section high construction scaffold. Using pieces of plywood or old lumber, use them under the legs of the scaffold to prevent sinking in the earth. Erect the scaffold over the stern. On the top level of the scaffold, lay several sections of scaffold plank over the stern to support the lifting sling. Use the scaffold planks instead of a tree branch.
I hesitate to mention the next method to some people who are not noted for their mechanical ability. If done right, it works fine, but you have to use lots of common sense to pull it off.
On your Triad, there is a section of cross bracing that's cut away to facilitate servicing the rudder. The tools and material necessary are a one ton bottle jack, two pieces of 1/2" or 3/4" pipe (not tubing), two pieces of 2"x 8" about a foot long and one piece of hardwood 2"x 6" about 10" or 12" long. That's it.
So we're all on the same page, the trailer and boat are lying north and south. Place one of the pieces of 2"x8" on the ground under the keel, ahead of the rudder in an east-west direction.. On this board, lay the two pieces of pipe, north-south, several inches apart. On top of the pipes, lay the second 2"x 8" board east-west. In order to hold everything in position, you can tap 16# nails in the bottom plate, to be removed when the operation begins.
Place the bottle jack on top of the second board and the hardwood 2"x 6" between the ram of the bottle jack and the keel. As the jack is raised, the bottom of the keel will raise above the keel guide. With little effort, the aft end of the keel will roll sideways on the pipes.
Good luck,
O J
-
Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Keel Guides
Hi Tom,
The metal keel guide channel-iron rests directly on my trailer's cross beams.
The metal channel is 10" from outside edge to outside edge.
The lips of the channel measure 2", top to botton.
The bottom of the 2" x 6" wooden, vertical walls are at the same elevation as the top of the metal channel-iron lips.
The distance in between the wooden, vertical walls of the guide extensions measures 10 1/2"
NB: The treated 2"x6" wood used is a full six inches wide, not nominal. Therefore, the total height of my keel guide is 8" above the cross members. 2" of metal lip of the channel-iron plus 6" of wood. You could allow 1/2" more for the carpet padding.
Again, good luck.
O J
The metal keel guide channel-iron rests directly on my trailer's cross beams.
The metal channel is 10" from outside edge to outside edge.
The lips of the channel measure 2", top to botton.
The bottom of the 2" x 6" wooden, vertical walls are at the same elevation as the top of the metal channel-iron lips.
The distance in between the wooden, vertical walls of the guide extensions measures 10 1/2"
NB: The treated 2"x6" wood used is a full six inches wide, not nominal. Therefore, the total height of my keel guide is 8" above the cross members. 2" of metal lip of the channel-iron plus 6" of wood. You could allow 1/2" more for the carpet padding.
Again, good luck.
O J
-
Tom W
- Posts: 8
- Joined: Dec 27th, '06, 20:26
- Location: 1978 Typhoon Weekender/Cajun Moon/Chattanooga,Tn.
typhoon keel guides
John,
Thanks very much for the measurements. I hope to have this project completed today.
Tom
Thanks very much for the measurements. I hope to have this project completed today.
Tom
-
Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Typhoon Trailer Keel Guide
Hi Gary,
6" overhang? That's in the ballpark. It's more than enough for a 2" web sling and it's enough for a bottle jack piston. Be sure to place a piece of hard wood between the ram and the hull when jacking. Try and keep the jack's ram as far forward as possible in this 6" space.
Should you be concerned about this small space? Sure you should.
Always be concerned when elevating a hull, no matter which method you use. Jack slowly, watch and listen. You only have to go up a 1/4" to a 1/2" for clearance
How's your balance? How's your tongue weight? Is the rig tongue-heavy? If the vee stop is moved farther aft, it will help lighten the weight on the hitch and give you more keel overhang at the rear of the trailer.
Actually, that 6" of keel overhanging the rear of the trailer is technically not the keel. It is an extension of the keel or, as some people call it, a false keel. If you look at it closely, you should see a joint between the two sections. For this reason, when you place the hardwood strip between the ram and the hull, foreward and aft, if possible, try to have some of the hardwood strip span the joint and bear against both the keel and the false keel
Good luck,
O J
6" overhang? That's in the ballpark. It's more than enough for a 2" web sling and it's enough for a bottle jack piston. Be sure to place a piece of hard wood between the ram and the hull when jacking. Try and keep the jack's ram as far forward as possible in this 6" space.
Should you be concerned about this small space? Sure you should.
Always be concerned when elevating a hull, no matter which method you use. Jack slowly, watch and listen. You only have to go up a 1/4" to a 1/2" for clearance
How's your balance? How's your tongue weight? Is the rig tongue-heavy? If the vee stop is moved farther aft, it will help lighten the weight on the hitch and give you more keel overhang at the rear of the trailer.
Actually, that 6" of keel overhanging the rear of the trailer is technically not the keel. It is an extension of the keel or, as some people call it, a false keel. If you look at it closely, you should see a joint between the two sections. For this reason, when you place the hardwood strip between the ram and the hull, foreward and aft, if possible, try to have some of the hardwood strip span the joint and bear against both the keel and the false keel
Good luck,
O J