I have read many excellent posts in the archives comparing the various mid sized CDs. I am curious about what the board wisdom feels would best suit my needs given the following "specs."
I love my Ty, but . . . the crew doesn't like the porta-potty (guess which gender my crew is!) which limits our range a lot and we'd like to be able to invite another couple (or 2 adult children) to go along for a daysail. So I'm thinking of moving up. We will only rarely sleep aboard (any cruising will include B&Bs ashore) and will likely never cruise with company. We would do very little cooking aboard.
So we'd like a big cockpit and a world class head. A dodger and diesel will be nice too, but both boats (can) have those. Neither of us are near 6 feet tall (re headroom). Home base is Fisher's Island Sound.
Based on the reading I've done, it seems like the forward head in the 25D might be closer to "world class" than the 27.
Other thoughts? (Be gentle; you imagine how stupid I feel selecting a boat based on the head).
25D or 27 or ?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Paul McCary
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Mar 30th, '05, 21:24
- Location: CD-27 "Impromptu" Pine Island Marina, Groton CT
25D or 27 or ?
Paul McCary
Impromptu
Pine Island Marina
Impromptu
Pine Island Marina
another thought
When Momma's happy everyone is happy. (and the converse)Paul McCary wrote:
Other thoughts? (Be gentle; you imagine how stupid I feel selecting a boat based on the head).
Sail on,
Jack
CD28 Sea Belle
Hailport - Rockland, ME
There are old sailors and bold sailors, but there are no old, bold sailors.
Reef early and often. It's easier to shake out a reef when one is bored than it is to tuck one in when one is scared.
When your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails.
Jack
CD28 Sea Belle
Hailport - Rockland, ME
There are old sailors and bold sailors, but there are no old, bold sailors.
Reef early and often. It's easier to shake out a reef when one is bored than it is to tuck one in when one is scared.
When your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails.
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Dean Abramson
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Jul 5th, '05, 11:23
- Location: CD 31 "Loda May"
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Steve Kuhar
- Posts: 244
- Joined: Feb 1st, '06, 22:49
- Location: "AIKANE", CD30
Pensacola, Fl.
Paul,
Your post reminded me of our first boat, a Chrysler 22, the boat had a matching Chrysler outboard that seemed to know how badly it was needed, and the odds of it starting were inversely proportional to that need; it only had sitting headroom, and it had a porta potti that was designed by a sadist (who would put a 5 gallon reservoir on a toilet with a 3 gallon holding tank). I was determined that my next boat would have a true marine head, a diesel inboard, and standing headroom. When the first ads appeared for the CD25D I called our local dealer and asked him if it was an Alberg design, and if it met the above criteria. Being assured that it was and did, I bought hull # 005, sight unseen. After 26 years of ownership the diesel has never failed to start, the only thing I hit my head on is the beam under the companionway, and the head is reliable and sumptuous. The boat is comfortable enough for a couple that you will give up on the B & Bs' but you will still want to tie up at restaurants as the galley (sic) leaves a lot to be desired. I can't speak to the 27 but you will love a 25D.
Steve Kuhar
Your post reminded me of our first boat, a Chrysler 22, the boat had a matching Chrysler outboard that seemed to know how badly it was needed, and the odds of it starting were inversely proportional to that need; it only had sitting headroom, and it had a porta potti that was designed by a sadist (who would put a 5 gallon reservoir on a toilet with a 3 gallon holding tank). I was determined that my next boat would have a true marine head, a diesel inboard, and standing headroom. When the first ads appeared for the CD25D I called our local dealer and asked him if it was an Alberg design, and if it met the above criteria. Being assured that it was and did, I bought hull # 005, sight unseen. After 26 years of ownership the diesel has never failed to start, the only thing I hit my head on is the beam under the companionway, and the head is reliable and sumptuous. The boat is comfortable enough for a couple that you will give up on the B & Bs' but you will still want to tie up at restaurants as the galley (sic) leaves a lot to be desired. I can't speak to the 27 but you will love a 25D.
Steve Kuhar
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Dean Abramson
- Posts: 1483
- Joined: Jul 5th, '05, 11:23
- Location: CD 31 "Loda May"
Galley
Steve is right that the galley is a bit wanting. But we cooked 95% of our meals on board when we were cruising; the galley is plenty usable. Admittedly, the best position I found for washing dishes entailed my left arm going between two rungs on the companionway ladder, but that soon came to feel like business as usual. We found the Kenyon stove to be quite good (once you got thru the adventure of lighting it); we would boil water for spaghetti, etc., on a regular basis, and also did a lot of stir frys. We usually left home with a few containers of chile or stew frozen (which serves as ice until you eat it); heating that stuff up was a snap, but we also did lots of meals from scratch. The ice box is quite large, and the trash can opening is wicked handy. We used the galley day in and day out and it worked out quite well.
Dean
Dean
Dean Abramson
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
Cape Dory 31 "Loda May"
Falmouth, Maine
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Joe Myerson
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 11:22
- Location: s/v Creme Brulee, CD 25D, Hull #80, Squeteague Harbor, MA
Here's one more for the 25D
I'm starting my fourth season with a 25D, and it's been a wonderful boat.
The "sumptuous" head compartment was a big selling point with Lynne (although she still doesn't understand that sailing is life), the accommodations are fine for a couple and she handles well in heavy weather.
One caveat with the head, however: With the toilet in the forward compartment and the holding tank forward of the engine, there's a long tube that has to run the length of the boat--and the smell in the port storage compartment can be a problem.
Still, I'm in the process of writing a used-boat review of the 27 for my magazine, and after sailing several times with a friend who owns one, I've got to say that the extra two feet makes quite a difference in terms of speed, without, it seems, compromising the single-handing ability.
Every time I'm on the 27, it feels like I'm on a much larger yacht, until I actually take the helm; then I feel right at home.
Also, the cockpit of the 27 seems larger to me (but this might be because my friend's boat has a wheel).
However, my heart still belongs to the 25D!
Good luck. You can't go wrong with either boat.
--Joe
The "sumptuous" head compartment was a big selling point with Lynne (although she still doesn't understand that sailing is life), the accommodations are fine for a couple and she handles well in heavy weather.
One caveat with the head, however: With the toilet in the forward compartment and the holding tank forward of the engine, there's a long tube that has to run the length of the boat--and the smell in the port storage compartment can be a problem.
Still, I'm in the process of writing a used-boat review of the 27 for my magazine, and after sailing several times with a friend who owns one, I've got to say that the extra two feet makes quite a difference in terms of speed, without, it seems, compromising the single-handing ability.
Every time I'm on the 27, it feels like I'm on a much larger yacht, until I actually take the helm; then I feel right at home.
Also, the cockpit of the 27 seems larger to me (but this might be because my friend's boat has a wheel).
However, my heart still belongs to the 25D!
Good luck. You can't go wrong with either boat.
--Joe
Former Commodore, CDSOA
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
Hi,
Our we love our '27. To my eye, it's got the prettiest lines of all the CDs. The head is cramped but the fwd cabin is convenient for changing etc. Small kids love the Vee berth.
I single hand our 90% of the time. When my teen-agers use the boat it's mostly for hanging out at the slip and the cabin seats 4 comfortably.
The cockpit is pleny large for 4 adults especially if you don't have to change seats when tacking.
Our we love our '27. To my eye, it's got the prettiest lines of all the CDs. The head is cramped but the fwd cabin is convenient for changing etc. Small kids love the Vee berth.
I single hand our 90% of the time. When my teen-agers use the boat it's mostly for hanging out at the slip and the cabin seats 4 comfortably.
The cockpit is pleny large for 4 adults especially if you don't have to change seats when tacking.
Mark Abramski
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Dick Barthel
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:29
- Location: Dream Weaver, CD25D, Noank, CT
Best boat
Paul,
I hope John Vigor checks in because he has owned both. If he doesn't (he's either busy writing or sailing) send him a private message. He's helped me out in the past.
But in any event, my advice would be to search for both and find the best boat that you can. And in that way you can "fall in love" and not make a close decision on the basis of a head, etc.
Incidentally, I'm at Noank Village Boatyard with my 25D and there's a 27 moored right next to me. Look me up if you would like.
Dick
I hope John Vigor checks in because he has owned both. If he doesn't (he's either busy writing or sailing) send him a private message. He's helped me out in the past.
But in any event, my advice would be to search for both and find the best boat that you can. And in that way you can "fall in love" and not make a close decision on the basis of a head, etc.
Incidentally, I'm at Noank Village Boatyard with my 25D and there's a 27 moored right next to me. Look me up if you would like.
Dick
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John Vigor
- Posts: 608
- Joined: Aug 27th, '06, 15:58
- Contact:
Two good boats
Paul, we've been through all this before, of course. It's in the archives somewhere.
But, given your requirements, I would go with the CD25D. The ladies will love the loo/powder room, and that's a very good reason for choosing a boat.
Four adults in the cockpit is a bit tight, but manageable for day sails. Sleeping four adults would be a problem, but you wisely don't seem to want to do that.
Basically, I found the CD27 better set up for extended cruising (sleeping aboard for a week or more). You spend very little time in the loo (with any luck) so a big head like the 25D's is very unusual in a small boat. The 25D can be used for extended cruising, of course, but it takes a little more shuffling around of stuff when you want to make up berths in the cabin.
The 27 is faster, but not much. It shouldn't bother you. One thing you should consider, however, is that the 27 is often the better bargain. The 25D has a strong cult following that keeps the price high, and there isn't a lot of price difference between the 25D and the 27.
You can singlehand either boat and hardly notice the difference. Both are tough, seaworthy, and high-quality.
The one exception I would make in this case is if you can find a late-model CD27 with the bigger 13hp motor and the deck anchor locker. I'd swop those features for a fancy loo any day. The usual 1GM is a little underpowered for a 27--although adequate with the right prop and a clean bottom.
Cheers,
John V.
But, given your requirements, I would go with the CD25D. The ladies will love the loo/powder room, and that's a very good reason for choosing a boat.
Four adults in the cockpit is a bit tight, but manageable for day sails. Sleeping four adults would be a problem, but you wisely don't seem to want to do that.
Basically, I found the CD27 better set up for extended cruising (sleeping aboard for a week or more). You spend very little time in the loo (with any luck) so a big head like the 25D's is very unusual in a small boat. The 25D can be used for extended cruising, of course, but it takes a little more shuffling around of stuff when you want to make up berths in the cabin.
The 27 is faster, but not much. It shouldn't bother you. One thing you should consider, however, is that the 27 is often the better bargain. The 25D has a strong cult following that keeps the price high, and there isn't a lot of price difference between the 25D and the 27.
You can singlehand either boat and hardly notice the difference. Both are tough, seaworthy, and high-quality.
The one exception I would make in this case is if you can find a late-model CD27 with the bigger 13hp motor and the deck anchor locker. I'd swop those features for a fancy loo any day. The usual 1GM is a little underpowered for a 27--although adequate with the right prop and a clean bottom.
Cheers,
John V.
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Mike Raehl
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Feb 7th, '05, 23:18
- Location: CD27 #151, Roberta Jane III, Belmont Harbor, Chicago
Paul,
Three years ago, I upsized from a Typhoon to my CD27 for exactly the crew harmony reasons that you mention. Although I deeply regret selling my Ty, it just would not serve us as a couple.
I did look at the 25D, however the 27 has proven to have been the better choice for us. We daysail and sometimes stay overnight on the boat at the dock. The forward v berth provides storage for bedding and guests' day bags which keeps the cabin clear of clutter. When our adult daughter hangs with us at the dock after sailing, we greatly appreciate having room for three nappers at once. The ladies find the head to be functional and big enough. The v berth insert is left at home so they have a "changing room" up forward.
As to comparative sailing qualities, I defer to John Vigor. Only adding that with a good mainsail and a new, high cut 135% furling jib, I am amazed at how well my CD27 sails in both light and heavy air. On Memorial Day , both wife and daughter napped in the cockpit while I sailed five plus knots in variable winds that didn't exceed ten knots. This is real progress in crew confidence!
I also agree with earlier comments that the CD27 has the best lines and is the prettiest of the Cape Dorys. But of course, no bias here.
Good luck in your search....
Three years ago, I upsized from a Typhoon to my CD27 for exactly the crew harmony reasons that you mention. Although I deeply regret selling my Ty, it just would not serve us as a couple.
I did look at the 25D, however the 27 has proven to have been the better choice for us. We daysail and sometimes stay overnight on the boat at the dock. The forward v berth provides storage for bedding and guests' day bags which keeps the cabin clear of clutter. When our adult daughter hangs with us at the dock after sailing, we greatly appreciate having room for three nappers at once. The ladies find the head to be functional and big enough. The v berth insert is left at home so they have a "changing room" up forward.
As to comparative sailing qualities, I defer to John Vigor. Only adding that with a good mainsail and a new, high cut 135% furling jib, I am amazed at how well my CD27 sails in both light and heavy air. On Memorial Day , both wife and daughter napped in the cockpit while I sailed five plus knots in variable winds that didn't exceed ten knots. This is real progress in crew confidence!
I also agree with earlier comments that the CD27 has the best lines and is the prettiest of the Cape Dorys. But of course, no bias here.
Good luck in your search....
Mike Raehl
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Dick Barthel
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:29
- Location: Dream Weaver, CD25D, Noank, CT
Not to quibble with Paul's good comments but rather just to give a 25D bias, the 25D has a large quarter berth that many owners use exclusively for storage. If a third (small visitor) happens on board for an overnight the starboard settee does come out for additional room. For a bigger visitor there's always the cockpit or the dingy!Mike Raehl wrote:Paul,
I did look at the 25D, however the 27 has proven to have been the better choice for us. We daysail and sometimes stay overnight on the boat at the dock. The forward v berth provides storage for bedding and guests' day bags which keeps the cabin clear of clutter. When our adult daughter hangs with us at the dock after sailing, we greatly appreciate having room for three nappers at once. The ladies find the head to be functional and big enough. The v berth insert is left at home so they have a "changing room" up forward.
As for sailing in heavy weather, she's in that most famous of sailing books, "Twenty Sailboats You Can Take Any Where" so that should cover that department.
I think Paul is right on the lines...the 25D is a little "stubby" but if that is a concern, John V came up with a "Pacific Seacraft" type stripe that really enhances her appearance. Search the archives: 25D and Ebling (new owner of John's former 25D) for a beautiful picture of her. Or PM Bruce who I'm sure would be happy to send you a pic).
Dick
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barfwinkle
- Posts: 2169
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 10:34
- Location: S/V Rhapsody CD25D
IMHO
The 27 is the most beautiful boat of the line 
However, I do not like that small of a vessel with a v-berth! My Catalina 27 (1st boat) was very uncomfortable in the v-berth and difficult to get in and out of I truly love the forward head and no v-berth, but then that's just me.
Fair Winds
However, I do not like that small of a vessel with a v-berth! My Catalina 27 (1st boat) was very uncomfortable in the v-berth and difficult to get in and out of
I truly love the forward head and no v-berth, but then that's just me.Fair Winds
Bill Member #250.
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Dick Kobayashi
- Posts: 596
- Joined: Apr 2nd, '05, 16:31
- Location: Former owner of 3 CDs, most recently Susan B, a 25D
A 25D vs 27 decision method.
They are both terrific boats. Let your significant other make the trade off between the additional 24 inches and V berth and the spacious head. This will insure many years of happy and companionable sailing.
Dick K
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
CD 25D Susan B #104
Mattapoisett, MA
Fleet Captain - Northeast Fleet 2014/2015
Tempus Fugit. And not only that, it goes by fast. (Ron Vacarro 1945 - 1971)
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Paul McCary
- Posts: 32
- Joined: Mar 30th, '05, 21:24
- Location: CD-27 "Impromptu" Pine Island Marina, Groton CT
follow up; I bought a 27!
To close the loop on this thread, which was most helpful, today I bought a CD 27 (Impromptu; PO Bob Shulman, an occasional poster on this board).
I concluded that I couldn't go wrong with either boat.
Circling back through the "specs" I had laid out, we found the heads to be about equivalent. More space in the 25D, but the 27 seems to have as much usable space and nice shelf behind head. Crew approved of both.
The hanging locker in the 27 was very nice, as was the V berth (even if it will be used mostly for storage).
And while the 25D is nice looking, we liked the lines of the 27 better and agreed that the look of the boat (we can see it on the mooring from our deck, so we see it a lot) was very important to us.
But the deciding factor was that we found the right boat less than 5 miles from our house in Groton. Plus Impromptu is in immaculate condition. My challenge will be to maintain the high level of care this boat has enjoyed.
Thanks to all of the insightful commenters who helped inform the search!
I concluded that I couldn't go wrong with either boat.
Circling back through the "specs" I had laid out, we found the heads to be about equivalent. More space in the 25D, but the 27 seems to have as much usable space and nice shelf behind head. Crew approved of both.
The hanging locker in the 27 was very nice, as was the V berth (even if it will be used mostly for storage).
And while the 25D is nice looking, we liked the lines of the 27 better and agreed that the look of the boat (we can see it on the mooring from our deck, so we see it a lot) was very important to us.
But the deciding factor was that we found the right boat less than 5 miles from our house in Groton. Plus Impromptu is in immaculate condition. My challenge will be to maintain the high level of care this boat has enjoyed.
Thanks to all of the insightful commenters who helped inform the search!
Paul McCary
Impromptu
Pine Island Marina
Impromptu
Pine Island Marina
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Warren Kaplan
- Posts: 1147
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 11:44
- Location: Former owner of Sine Qua Non CD27 #166 1980 Oyster Bay Harbor, NY Member # 317
Congratulations!!
Congratulations!!! You're gonna' love the way that boat sails!!
Good luck with her!!!
Good luck with her!!!
"I desire no more delight, than to be under sail and gone tonight."
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)
(W. Shakespeare, Merchant of Venice)