I've HAD IT With Epifanes !!!!

[Chuck]

I've been using Epifanes for almost 4 years now. Suppose to be the best. It does go on good, levels out very well, and looks great. But it keeps lifting off the teak. I am refinishing pieces over and over. And I do my spring and fall maintainance. Of course the manufacture would say I not doing something right. But the Fact remains - I'm NOT buying any more Epifanes.
Chuck
Gulf Coast Fleet Captain (for one more month!)

[Clay Stalker]

I have used it in the past and have found that if applied too thickly (easy to do) it does tend to lift prematurely. So it was suggested to me that I should thin it down....which didn't make much sense. If I'm to thin it, why not just use Captain's or one of the other proven varnishes.....so that is what I did. Hard to beat Captain's.

Clay Stalker

[CaptRaul]

If the Epifanes is lifting after you applied it to teak it could be the natural oils in the teak that continue to leach out that is preventing a good bond. Try wiping done raw teak with acetone prior to varnishinh, may help.

[Warren Kaplan]

Ah....the frustration of varnish longevity. No doubt it looks beautiful...for as long as it lasts.

I'm not suggesting anything here but many, after many years of frustration, have thrown in the towel and gone to Cetol because it really lasts. Maybe the finish isn't quite the same as varnish, but the Cetol Light, with or without gloss, does a pretty nice job.

Again, I'm not preaching conversion to all who still prefer the varnish route, but there is an alternative if you've had enough and if you are willing to accept a slight difference in appearance.

[Gary M]

I varnished and varnished, I removed varnish and varnished again. I dealt with the bubbles, the gatering, the burn throughs, and complete voids.

Many times I would go to the boat to go sailing only to end up varnishing all day and end up at the club house in the late afternoon having to say "No I didn't go sailing today, I decided to varnish instead!"

This time, with this boat I'm taking Warren's approach and sail more and varnish less.

Cetol is being applied as time goes on and so far I am completely satisfied with it. If it lasts as long as they say I'll be in love.

For all those varnish fans, go in peace, and may I be forgiven.

Gary

[John Vigor]

May I spend a few moments defending the art of varnishing? For that's what it is: an art. It requires years of practice, the patience of Job, and a deep determination to settle for nothing less than the best.

You have to study to be a varnisher, just as you have to study to gain the utmost benefit from any other spiritual experience. You have to read the books, pore over the instructions on the can, talk to the experts, and learn to deal with, and overcome, failure. There are a thousand little tricks, and a similar number of pitfalls, awaiting the would-be varnisher. Only experience and the right frame of mind will ensure success.

There is no place among the ranks of master varnishers for the hasty, the sloppy, or the easily pleased. There will be no deep and abiding satisfaction for those whose main object is to gain a semi-respectable varnished appearance by slapping on a couple of coats of linseed oil and petroleum base colored with iron oxide. People who do that know in the deepest part of their souls that they're cheating. They're cheating art, they're cheating nature, and they're cheating themselves.

Few joys on earth supercede that derived from earning a black belt in varnishing, knowing that you have learned from the masters, struggled and fought to gain the necessary knowledge and--importantly-- the frame of mind that goes with it.

Nothing but 10 deep coats of glowing varnish stamps your
teak with the seal of perfection. Those passers-by, arrested by its beauty, who stare with open mouths and jealous thoughts, know in their bones how you have suffered to bring this work of art into the world. They know you sanded the teak to the correct texture, diluted the varnish fully for the first coat; diluted it less for the next coat; and applied 10 perfect coats with a light sanding in between each.

They know, too, that they have neither the patience nor the aptitude to do it themselves, so they console themselves and their like-thinking friends with the ill-conceived notion that iron oxide is just as good as varnish, and lasts longer, and is cheaper, and enables them to spend more time sailing and less time working.

The rewards of honest labor are lost on them. The dignity of hard work is unknown to them. They are not real sailors who slap each other on the back, squawk loudly about their cleverness, and settle for second best. The real sailors are the quiet varnishers who deign to seek the approbation of their peers. Their satisfaction comes from a job well done and the knowledge that the iron oxide brigade is eating its heart out with envy.

Cheers,

John V.
_______________

From Vigor's Rules for Life:
16. Lowery's Law: "If it jams, force it. It if breaks, it needed replacing anyhow."

[Gary M]

N/M

[Dick Barthel]

But it will be a lot easier when I'm retired!

I think the secret is to bring your varnishing along in stages. Unless you have unlimited time, to try and varnish your entire boat in one season with 10 coats in nearly an impossible task. Pick a section (say the toe rail) for season one and varnish it to perfection. For the rest, maybe get it nicely prepped and use teak oil a few times a season. Eventually you can have your entire boat's teak Bristol. And quess what? It's probably almost time to start the next cycle.

Its clearly not for everyone and I think you have to enjoy fussing with your boat - period.

Dick

[Ed Haley]

Yeah, I bought the Varnish book, the hat and even the T-shirt! In fact, I have the movie "Varnishing Made Easy." I've shown it to my wife on several occasions and she now knows the true dedication and devotion to details that comes with a Captain who Varnishes. She knows that it takes a lot of TIME to prepare and apply as truly bristol finish on our teak.

So, when I decide to travel the 125 miles to Mokita for a few days or week of "Varnishing", I just tell her I'm leaving for the boat and she figures that I have my work cut out for me all week or more. No questions asked.

When I get to Mokita with her brilliant Cetol finish, I just board her and sail off for a spell. Thank you very much Seikkens.

[Warren Kaplan]

I do remember one boat owner I used to see around my yard. He was always there varnishing. His boat was still on the hard long after everyone else was launched. Like into middle July!

His varnish jobs were mirror-like. I've never seen better. He spent weeks, I dare say months, varnishing everything.

I had the opportunity to talk with him once. He confessed to me that his varnish jobs were so good because the saddest day of his season was always launch day. He loved working on his boat but he didn't care much for sailing it.

Ya' find a lot of strange birds around boatyards if you hang around them long enough!!

[Carl Thunberg]

Without entering into the fray on the Great Cetol v. Varnish Debate, I've had excellent results with Epifanes. Preparation is everything, and you do need to thin it quite a bit. The Epifanes thinner is expensive, but a little goes a long way. One can of thinner can thin three cans of varnish. Captain's Varnish is easier to work with and doesn't need to be thinned so much.

I use Cetol Light on my Rhodes 18, because I simply don't have the time to maintain a varnish finish on two sailboats.

[rtbates]

What you described is the biggest problem with all coatings applied to an oily wood like teak. You might give this stuff a try. I did and I love it. http://www.teaqua.com/ You'll see pics of Seraph's teak on the home page and down in 'family pics'. It's an oil unlike any oil ever created.

best of luck

[tartansailor]

Yes, varnishing can get to be an obsession, so I guess I fall into Warren's category:
[img]http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/t ... ompas4.jpg[/img]
I find that a toluene SOAK followed by a wipe off then followed by a LACQUER THINNER wash and wipe effectively prepares teak for finishing:
[img]http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/t ... 0144-1.jpg[/img]
I use an epoxy primer to seal out moisture from normal expansion, then followed by many, many coats of varnish.
Now to protect the fruits of my labor, I keep my brightwork covered:
[img]http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/t ... BoatAd.jpg[/img]
The photos do not due justice to my work, but I am not trying to impress anyone, just present to the board what works for me.
Dick

[Tracuman]

Randy,
How long have you been using Teaqua on Seraph?

Do you think there's any difference in the wear on fresh water lake versus gulf salt water?

John

[Ron M.]

I know I am not the only one awaiting a one year review of how this Teakqua stuff holds up. The wood on our boats looks great but it is a constant chore- am I getting old ?
________
VVT-I