Cape Dories are better built HOW??

[Thinking of 31 or 33]

No one needs to convince me of Alberg's excellence as a designer. But I am curious -- given that it is the second part of the frequent refrain -- how Cape Dories are better built. I want specifics. Every boat aficianado thinks their favored vessel is built like a brick shithouse, with well laid-up hull "this thick," etc. What I am looking for are *concrete* details of construction where Cape Dory went above and beyond the usual production builder. Here are some examples, taken from various other boats:

"Deck is bolted to hull on 6 inch centers using quarter-inch SS bolts, including transom." (Fairly common, except the last.)

"All underwater through-hulls are bronze seacocks." (Fairly common.)

"All bulkheads are tabbed to both deck and hull." (Not common.)

"Outer laminates (or sometimes all laminates) were laid up with vinylester resins." (Rare.)

"All deck hardware is well-backed and easily inspected."

"Easily removed panels and clever design aft give easy access to engine and stuffing box." (Rare.)

"Water tanks are located in bilge to keep the boat in trim and give more storage under settees." (Uncommon.)

"All wiring and plumbing is reasonably accessible. All tanks include some mechanism to indicate volume remaining." (Rare.)

"Wiring uses standard color codes, and it is easy to get to the back of the well-labeled, neatly organized control panel. The electric system include GCFI and good charging-regulation system for two battery banks."

"The boat includes lots of built in storage -- drawers, lockers, and bins -- in the galley, in the table, behind and under the settees, under the V-berth, etc."


These are all examples of "better building." Unfortunately, the examples come from many different boats. I wish I knew one builder that consistently did all these things! Now .. where did Cape Dory excel? Tell me what to look for when I see a Cape Dory. And perhaps as importantly, what are the common problems I should watch out for?

[Lyn Heiges]

Dear Thinker:

Take a look at the ON-LINE Cape Dory Manual for starters and see what they tell you about the construction practices and the finishes.

You have found this site and now you have a vast library available to you of questions, answers and experiences of Cape Dory Owners worldwide.

Also look at the time that these boats were in production and simple things like wiring color compliance didn't even exist from NEMA and the Marine Industries Association.

Were they overbuilt? Most likely and when you see the cores when instruments are installed through the hull, you will recognize it isn't Madison Avenue advertising -- its real!!

The quality of the material used were top at the time and probably better than some of the materials today after the environmentalists and a few other groups got in the mix!!

Compare other vessels of the same vintage and their repair/replacement histories and I think you will be shocked at the difference in what the "show boats" cost and required to keep them afloat versus what the rugged, conservative and hardy Cape Dorys required. The CDs should show much more ROI and lower required expenditures -- although most owner spend a lot of money keeping them pristine!!

Your post is a good one and maybe some others will give you more quantative material, but you should know we are passionate about Cape Dorys!!

Sincerely,

Lyn Heiges
CD28 MOON CHILD
CD27 GUILLEMOT

No one needs to convince me of Alberg's excellence as a designer. But I am curious -- given that it is the second part of the frequent refrain -- how Cape Dories are better built. I want specifics. Every boat aficianado thinks their favored vessel is built like a brick shithouse, with well laid-up hull "this thick," etc. What I am looking for are *concrete* details of construction where Cape Dory went above and beyond the usual production builder. Here are some examples, taken from various other boats:

"Deck is bolted to hull on 6 inch centers using quarter-inch SS bolts, including transom." (Fairly common, except the last.)

"All underwater through-hulls are bronze seacocks." (Fairly common.)

"All bulkheads are tabbed to both deck and hull." (Not common.)

"Outer laminates (or sometimes all laminates) were laid up with vinylester resins." (Rare.)

"All deck hardware is well-backed and easily inspected."

"Easily removed panels and clever design aft give easy access to engine and stuffing box." (Rare.)

"Water tanks are located in bilge to keep the boat in trim and give more storage under settees." (Uncommon.)

"All wiring and plumbing is reasonably accessible. All tanks include some mechanism to indicate volume remaining." (Rare.)

"Wiring uses standard color codes, and it is easy to get to the back of the well-labeled, neatly organized control panel. The electric system include GCFI and good charging-regulation system for two battery banks."

"The boat includes lots of built in storage -- drawers, lockers, and bins -- in the galley, in the table, behind and under the settees, under the V-berth, etc."


These are all examples of "better building." Unfortunately, the examples come from many different boats. I wish I knew one builder that consistently did all these things! Now .. where did Cape Dory excel? Tell me what to look for when I see a Cape Dory. And perhaps as importantly, what are the common problems I should watch out for?

lheiges@compuserve.com

[Tom Coons]

No one needs to convince me of Alberg's excellence as a designer. But I am curious -- given that it is the second part of the frequent refrain -- how Cape Dories are better built. I want specifics. Every boat aficianado thinks their favored vessel is built like a brick shithouse, with well laid-up hull "this thick," etc. What I am looking for are *concrete* details of construction where Cape Dory went above and beyond the usual production builder. Here are some examples, taken from various other boats:

"Deck is bolted to hull on 6 inch centers using quarter-inch SS bolts, including transom." (Fairly common, except the last.)

"All underwater through-hulls are bronze seacocks." (Fairly common.)

"All bulkheads are tabbed to both deck and hull." (Not common.)

"Outer laminates (or sometimes all laminates) were laid up with vinylester resins." (Rare.)

"All deck hardware is well-backed and easily inspected."

"Easily removed panels and clever design aft give easy access to engine and stuffing box." (Rare.)

"Water tanks are located in bilge to keep the boat in trim and give more storage under settees." (Uncommon.)

"All wiring and plumbing is reasonably accessible. All tanks include some mechanism to indicate volume remaining." (Rare.)

"Wiring uses standard color codes, and it is easy to get to the back of the well-labeled, neatly organized control panel. The electric system include GCFI and good charging-regulation system for two battery banks."

"The boat includes lots of built in storage -- drawers, lockers, and bins -- in the galley, in the table, behind and under the settees, under the V-berth, etc."


These are all examples of "better building." Unfortunately, the examples come from many different boats. I wish I knew one builder that consistently did all these things! Now .. where did Cape Dory excel? Tell me what to look for when I see a Cape Dory. And perhaps as importantly, what are the common problems I should watch out for?

Oddly enough Cape Dories have most of the items you mentioned as indications of being better built. This is going to take awhile to post but I'll keep it as brief as possible. (I have a CD 31 # 15 so these remarks refer to that model).

Hull to deck joint. Actually CD uses a different system than bolting the deck to the hull via bolts or pop rivets however closely spaced. Get ahold of a manual and see how they've done it. Rather than the typical flanges which are then covered with a rubber or vinyl trim piece CDs are acually bonded together in a very intricate and clever way. None have ever been known to fail (or so they claim) and mine has never leaked a drop. I was impressed

All underwater seacocks are bronze -- of course. As are the chainplates and turnbuckles.

Bulkheads are not tabbed to deck and hull -- well, you can't have everything.

Outer laminates are not vinylester resins. In the days when CD were built no production boat was using them. Although I've read here of owners having blisters and blue ooze, on mine I've conly had a couple of small blisters in 10 years.

The deckware is backed. The items on the foredeck are accessible through the chainlocker. Items on the stern are accessible via the stern locker which is big enough for me to crawl into and sit in. There is a cover piece that unscrews with about half a dozen screws and drops down exposing the chainplates, bolts, etc. along the gunwhales.

The cockpit lockers both port and starboard are about 5 feet deep and the inboard side of the locker is a piece of plywood held in place by a single twist latch so that you twist them and simply lift the panel out. This gives you access to the backside of the engine, the transmission. stuffing box, rudder, quadrant etc. via an opening that is about 3 1/2 by 4 feet in size. Easy to lean in and get to anything. The front of the engine is accessed through a door behind the companionway ladder that has a deadbolt on each side and just lifts off.

This boat carries a phenomenal amount of water tankage for a boat this size. (90 gallons) A 35 gallon tank under each settee and a 20 gallon tank under the v berth. While this uses much of the storage space it is compensated for by the fact that the backrest behind the settees hinges up revealing storage that is perhaps a foot deep 2 feet high and six and a half feet long. On top of that is a "pilot berth" storage area that holds a multitude of miscellaneous gear. There are inspection panels (out of teak even here where it doesn't show) in the settee bottom for each tank. One at the end so you can check hose connections and so on and one in the middle that gives access to a plastic inspection "port" that unscrews so that you can look into the tank, reach your arm in,etc. If you get serious about the tanks the settee bottom unscrews with screws around the edge and the whole thing lifts off revealing the entire tank. Since the tanks do not go all the way to the end of the settee, there is a little door at the end on both sides giving access to a small area where I keep things like hammers, spare chain, my diving belt weights etc.

The water heater for the pressure waer system is at the aft end of the port cockpit locker so that you can put a milk crate in the locker and sit on it while you work on the plumbing right at chest level. The pressure water pump is on a little shelf under the sink counter in the head.

The electrical control panel is in the aft bulkhead just above the engine compartment. There are four screws -- one in each corner -- remove these and the panel folds forward exposing the electrical connections to the fuses, the battery cables to the battery switch, etc. Right next to it is the panel with the 120 volt connections which has the same access for the 120 volt system.

Although they did not have GFIs when this boat was built, there are both battery condition meters and ampmeters for each battery so that you can monitor the charge going to each battery, or check the level of charge on either battery, just by flicking the switch to batt #1 or #2

As far as storage goes this boat is phenomenal. A built in garbage "can" in the galley that takes a platic kitchen bag and is mounted in a drawer that pulls out and slides in behind a teak door (on a 30 foot boat midn you!) Storage behind the back of both settees as mentioned above, two hanging lockers, seven drawers and one cabinet in the forepeak plus two bins at sole level the starboard side giving access to the paddle wheel for the knotmeter. A bookshelf running the full length of the v berth on both sides, plus a hanging locker just in the forepeak. The teak doors close and lock - not some flimsy curtain.

In the main salon in front of the hanging locker, there is something I call the "end table" --three drawers and a little counter to set things like the martini or alarm clock on. In the head there is a "dressing table" with a sink, hot water shower that runs off the engine or shore power when plugged in. Plus a large storage bin across the back which is great for boots, safety harness, etc. Above each settee back there are flip doors that also open. There is a double walled floor to the v berth with storage between. Under the bottom floor is the third water tank, above that is a storage compartment where I keep my charts. It's the entire width of the boat and about 3 feet stem to stern. I'm sure I've forgot a lot of storage but by any standard the storage in a 32 foot boat is astounding. Five foot deep cockpit lockers hold a moutain of anchors, drogues, spare line, sails, hose and spare parts.

The mast itself has like 1/4 inch thick walls and will practically stand by itself without stays. Put the main boom on your shoulder and lift it and then compare it to any other 31 foot boat you can find. Before I stepped my mast people came by in the boatyard and asked me if I had ordered a custom mast because it was so stout looking.

You sort of poo pooed people saying their hull is thick, however these hulls really are thick and are layed up with unidirectional roving. This is stronger because the normal roving has an over and under type weave which leaves little pockets of pure resin in the corners which becomes the weak point. When hulls break up they usually tear right along these pockets like tearing a dish cloth or towel along a seam. Unidirectional roving while harder to work with has every other layer all running in the same direction rather than over and under thus there are no resin pockets and the result is a denser and stronger hull. So not only is it twice as thick as say an Island Packet, it's also stronger per thickness. That's something that no one can see but CD went to the trouble to do it as right as it can be done. That makes you feel that there are a lot of other things you can't see, but trust that it was done right. Boats don't get a good reputation just out of thin air.

I recently had the local shipwright install a propane locker in my aft deck. The DECK lay up back there was over an inch thick of solid layup -- no core. These are awesome stout boats. "Hell for stout" as they used to say. Plus beautiful and handy sailers. I'm pleased with mine - can you tell?

I've bent your ear enough, I'll leave it to someone else to describe the common faults you requested -- they are few and relatively insignificant and thoroughly discussed on our bulletin board here. In my view you can't go wrong with a Cape Dory.









TacCambria@thegrid.net

[Matt Cawthorne]

No one needs to convince me of Alberg's excellence as a designer. But I am curious -- given that it is the second part of the frequent refrain -- how Cape Dories are better built. I want specifics. Every boat aficianado thinks their favored vessel is built like a brick shithouse, with well laid-up hull "this thick," etc. What I am looking for are *concrete* details of construction where Cape Dory went above and beyond the usual production builder. Here are some examples, taken from various other boats:

"Deck is bolted to hull on 6 inch centers using quarter-inch SS bolts, including transom." (Fairly common, except the last.)

"All underwater through-hulls are bronze seacocks." (Fairly common.)

"All bulkheads are tabbed to both deck and hull." (Not common.)

"Outer laminates (or sometimes all laminates) were laid up with vinylester resins." (Rare.)

"All deck hardware is well-backed and easily inspected."

"Easily removed panels and clever design aft give easy access to engine and stuffing box." (Rare.)

"Water tanks are located in bilge to keep the boat in trim and give more storage under settees." (Uncommon.)

"All wiring and plumbing is reasonably accessible. All tanks include some mechanism to indicate volume remaining." (Rare.)

"Wiring uses standard color codes, and it is easy to get to the back of the well-labeled, neatly organized control panel. The electric system include GCFI and good charging-regulation system for two battery banks."

"The boat includes lots of built in storage -- drawers, lockers, and bins -- in the galley, in the table, behind and under the settees, under the V-berth, etc."


These are all examples of "better building." Unfortunately, the examples come from many different boats. I wish I knew one builder that consistently did all these things! Now .. where did Cape Dory excel? Tell me what to look for when I see a Cape Dory. And perhaps as importantly, what are the common problems I should watch out for?

The structural details are where CD's really stand out. You may not think much of the electrical system, but my job is as a structural engineer and I was very impressed with the structure of the Cape Dory boats. Here are just a few of the many points to look at when you go boat shopping.

Pay attention to how the standing rigging is attached to the hull. There are no 'chain plates' in the traditional sense. The CD boats (at least the larger ones) use a fitting which is bolted through the deck. The backing plate on my '36 is actually a long steel 'U' shaped channel (upside down) which extends for quite some distance beyond the fittings. The backing plate also ties into the hull at the deck joint. After 17 years my '36 does not have a single leak around any of these fittings despite the fact that they have never been re-sealed. They are very strong. It does not show up when you look at the deck as being anything particularly special, but the construction details are first rate.

Pay attention to the deck fittings in general. The bronze bow fitting on the '33 is a classic example. It is an elegant fitting which performs several funcitons and transitions beautifully into the toe rails. The midship cleats also transition directly into the toe rails. You will never bash your toes or trip on them. All load bearing deck fittings have backing plates.


Get a good look at the port lights. On most Cape Dory models they are all bronze except for the glass which is plenty thick. They will not give you the panoramic view that you can get in many boats with large pleiglass windows, but they will not be caved in if you get hit with a large breaking wave or get rolled. Pray that you never get in conditions which could do this to your windows, but be confident that if you ever do you will not be taking water in through them.

The seacocks are the drum type and all bronze. In addion the through hull fittings are the mushroom head type which thread directly into the seacock. The mushroom head will cause a little extra drag, but provide more strength to keep the through hull from ever being broken out. This is not uncommon, but is just another example of how the important details are not neglected. Be careful. The bronze 'seacocks' used by some manufacturers are the ball valve type used in household plumbing. If you were to drop an anchor or an emergency tiller on one you could snap them off. You would not be able to break off one of the heavy Spartan Seacocks used in most cape dorys.

Good luck in your boat shopping.

Matt



mcawthor@bellatlantic.net

[Pete Zwiefelhofer]

You might check with practical sailor for past reviews. I own a 30' and I can tell you that the deck IS NOT thru-bolted to hull. Also there are no backing plates on lifeline stanchions (sic).

Good luck.



pete@zwiefelhofer.com

[zeida]

I was surprised to read that you do not have backing plates on the stanchion bases of your CD-30. I DO have them on my CD-33. I just replaced two of those stanchion bases with the new ones by Spartan Marine, and they did not send me the corresponding backing plates. I had to drill additional holes to the old ones which consequently did not fit as well, but made them work finally. Cheers, Zeida



zcecil@ibm.net

[sam]

My 40 has backing plates. The deck is thru bolted and epoxied to the hull. You sure your 30' is a CD and not a cheap Chinese immitation?

A side note. Did a tour of the Hinckley factory a bunch of years ago and was surprised to see no stanchion backing plates so I asked the foreman. He said becasue it was through solid fiberglass no backing plates were needed. Hey if it's good enough for Hinckley- should it be good enough for CD?

[Larry DeMers]

You don't have a thru-bolted deck on your CD30? Are you positive? Our CD30 (1983) is thru-bolted every 6 inches, and there are aluminum backing plates on all thru-bolts ( I know this for a fact as I spent last year tightening each and every nut from inside while my wife held the socket wrench on the bolt from the outside). There is no question that every CD30 I have looked at did have thru-bolts and backing plates.

Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer

You might check with practical sailor for past reviews. I own a 30' and I can tell you that the deck IS NOT thru-bolted to hull. Also there are no backing plates on lifeline stanchions (sic).

Good luck.

demers@sgi.com