RE-BEDDING CHAINPLATES

[Craig LeBlanc]

Hello Board members
I'm inside this year so today I started to tackle the dreaded project " re-bedding deck hardware and chainplates.

I removed all of the nuts and some of the bolts regarding the chainplates and broke the tips on 2 heavy duty screwdrivers.
The port side steel is in good shape very light rusting.
The starbd side upper had one of the 2 bolts snapping off with medium pressure when I tried to remove it also there was more rust on the plates some flaking off. I thought O S--- but after scraping and jabbing with the broken screwdrivers I was relieved to find everything seems solid.

My plan is to go back and spray the bolts with some wd-40 and let it penetrate overnight, remove the bolts, wire brush the steel chainplate-backplate not the hull part which is frp over, clean, spray some rust converter that also stops the rust from forming if they make such a product and rebed with new bolts nuts and washers. the manual says to make sure you torque the 1/2'' to 200 ft lbs and the 3/8" to 150 ft lbs.
I guess I'll be buying a torque wrench..oh well always wanted one.

I could use some help with this as I have never re-bedded chainplates. Last year I re-bed a couple of stanchions with 101 and tighten them all the way. There seems to be some confusion, some people say tighten all the way and some say almost all the way then wait 4 hrs, 1 day, 2 day etc then go back and tighten the nut only, don't break the seal of the bolt by turning it. I would imagine the same technique is used on the chainplates but which one is right? By the way I just ordered Don Casey's new 2005 copyright book on boat maitenance.

I could really use some expert advice on this.
Anyway I'm real happy about the rust not being bad when I had the boat surveyed 3 yrs ago the starbd side was not accessible but I found that if you remove the ac duct work fitting in the hanging locker you have good access no mirror needed for either side and the aft most plates are located in the salon about 4 inches from the bulkhead. I havn't checked the stern yet but I did check the bow plates last year and they seem ok.

? when checking the integrity If you can't jamb a screwdriver or scratch a screwdriver thru the surface of the backplates you should be OK. its probably just rust on the surface. Is this how the experts do it?

Thanks in advance to all who respond.

[Oswego John]

Craig,

Because of the fact that I've worked on a few doesn't qualify me as an expert. I'll just give you some thoughts that have worked for me in the past.

By all means, use WD 40 or some other penetrating liquid on the nuts and bolts. First scrape or sand any paint on the threads. Every half hour or so give the nut a smart rap with a soft blow hammer to shock the threads and help the penetrant seep in.

Sometimes, using an impact wrench will help remove the nuts.

There are rust neutralizers/converters on the market. If you can remove the chain plates, you might consider grinding or sanding all traces of rust off of them. Hopefully you can find a plating outfit who will do small batches of galvanizing.

If not, apply several buildup coats of Zinc-It or some other good galvanizing paint. Zinc-It is 95% zinc and 5% carrier. If all else fails, apply several coats of iron oxide red primer and then finish coat with color.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is the reason that the bolt snapped off is because it was made from a low grade soft steel. Use harder grade, new, plated bolts and washers.

There are different grades of hardness on the Rockwell hardness scale. The bolts run from about #2 to #12, soft to hard. #2 is too mild and soft. #12 is too hard and brittle. Try to get middle of the range hardware, say #5 to #8. You can tell the hardness of a bolt by the slash marks on the cap of the hex bolt. #5 hardness has three slashes, #8 has five slash marks. Hardware in this mid range will be plenty strong without being too brittle and prone to shearing. If there are no slashes, there is a good chance that the bolt is probably low grade, imported junk, suitable for bolting wood together. A boat deserves better than that.

Good luck
O J

[Craig LeBlanc]

Craig,

By all means, use WD 40 or some other penetrating liquid on the nuts and bolts. First scrape or sand any paint on the threads. Every half hour or so give the nut a smart rap with a soft blow hammer to shock the threads and help the penetrant seep in.

If you can remove the chain plates, you might consider grinding or sanding all traces of rust off of them. Hopefully you can find a plating outfit who will do small batches of galvanizing.

If not, apply several buildup coats of Zinc-It or some other good galvanizing paint. Zinc-It is 95% zinc and 5% carrier. If all else fails, apply several coats of iron oxide red primer and then finish coat with color.

My guess, and it's only a guess, is the reason that the bolt snapped off is because it was made from a low grade soft steel. Use harder grade, new, plated bolts and washers.

There are different grades of hardness on the Rockwell hardness scale. The bolts run from about #2 to #12, soft to hard. #2 is too mild and soft. #12 is too hard and brittle. Try to get middle of the range hardware, say #5 to #8. You can tell the hardness of a bolt by the slash marks on the cap of the hex bolt. #5 hardness has three slashes, #8 has five slash marks. Hardware in this mid range will be plenty strong without being too brittle and prone to shearing. If there are no slashes, there is a good chance that the bolt is probably low grade, imported junk, suitable for bolting wood together. A boat deserves better than that.

Good luck
O J

John
Let me clarify the bolts are all slotted,flush head stainless, all nuts came off no problem but I can't get the bolts to back out on 6 of 7 out of the 12.
I don't believe you can remove the chainplates without some major destuction and if Its just light surface rust I really don't want to go to all that trouble.
Thanks Craig

[nikon4004]

Item 1

PB Blaster. Get it at any auto store. Works way better than WD40.

Item 2. While you are there, ask about their tool loaner program. You can get the use of a torque wrench for free. They charge a deposit and when to tool is returned in good working order, you get your deposit back. If you dont think you are really going to need the wrench again soon, why but it. Spend the 50.00 on more boat goodies!


Steve
Boatless in Ohio, but not for long!

[Oswego John]

Steve Nikon

A tool loaner from an auto supply is a good idea. I do it from time to time myself for specialty tools.

Fair ladies of CDSOA, skip over to the next post now. It's okay if you don't understand the following.

Most men thumbing through a tool catalogue are like kids with a toy catalog. It's okay, it's a guy thing. If you could read their minds, you'd notice them thinking "I'd really like to have one of those" or "Some day I'm gonna get me one of those babies". It's increasing the tool inventory for no special pertinent reason. It's something akin to a lady wanting a well stocked kitchen with all the latest gadgets and thingies. Maybe it's the warm, secure feeling that one gets, knowing that it's on tap if it is ever needed.

The size torque wrench that Craig requires just happens to be on sale at Harbor Freight. 1/2" drive, clicker torque wrench, Cat # 239-3VGA. $9.99

http://www.harborfreight.com

Dream on,
O J

[Craig LeBlanc]

after looking at torque wrenches in Sear's tonight I thought that seems kinda big for the job so I went back and read page 38 of the cd 22 thru 30 manual and sure enough I had mis-quoted it.

It states the following

Most deck hardware is thru-bolted and backed up where necessary. Periodically these items can leak
and should be rebedded with a good brand of caulk such as Life Caulk®. Care must be taken not to
overtighten the fasteners as the strength can be reduced severely. Particular attention should be paid
to the chainplate fasteners as they are very critical to the safety of the rig. The chainplates were
torqued at the factory and when recaulking them you should not exceed the torques listed below:
1/2” bolts ------------------200 inch pounds
3/8” bolts ------------------150 inch pounds
5/16” bolts ------------------90 inch pounds

Ladies, John is right, I was like a kid in a candy store at Sear's but John you know of woman who actually like to cook or do they just like the gadgets?
Oh I can feel the backlash of this already.
John tread ever so lightly.

[Craig LeBlanc]

John,
thanks for the harbor freight tip here's the drive I actually need.

1/4'' SQUARE DRIVE TORQUE WRENCH
Click-stop type accurate within +/- 4%. Heavy duty cam & pawl mechanism. Reversible. Includes carrying case.
Manufacturer:Pittsburgh
Drive: 1/4''
Torque range: 20 to 200 in. lbs.
Length: 10''
Weight: 1 lb.

ITEM 2696-3VGA

$28.99

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/D ... umber=2696[/url]

[Oswego John]

Craig,

Inch/pounds. Ahh, that's more like it.

200 foot/pounds??? That's more like what's used on freight locomotives, tug boats and the QE2.

Have fun,
O J

[bottomscraper]

Those slotted bolts can be a real pain. When I did a few chainplates last year I was also able to get the nuts off but the bolts would not budge. On our boat the bolts were long enough so I could get two nuts, one behind the other on the bottom of the bolt. I tightened the two nuts so they were very tight against each other but not touching the backing plate. I used a big pair of Vise Grips to grip the pair of nuts. This held the two nuts together and allowed me to break the bolt free. Once it was free I removed the nuts and continued to remove the bolts with a big screwdriver tip and a ratchet wrench. Good luck! Who said "If you can't fix it with Vise Grips, a big hammer and duct tape it can't be fixed"?

[Bill Cochrane]

The FHMS that hold the chainplates...some of you have removed them...are they threaded all the way or is the part that penetrates the deck unthreaded? Talked to a rigger who thought that if threaded all the way, there would be much more difficulty getting a good seal.

Regards, Bill

[David van den Burgh]

the bolts are threaded their whole length.

David

[chase]

Rich,

That is a very clever approach to getting the bolts out. Ill be filing that one away-

Craig,

You may have noticed, but Harborfreight can take weeks to ship. They have great deals on tools one might use infrequently.

Chase

[Oswego John]

Chase,

FYI, Harbor Freight has outlet stores in 40 of the 50 states. There are five stores in Georgia, two in Atlanta.

I don't know why, but there are no outlets in Conn. Mass., RI. Me and NH. They keep opening new outlets weekly, maybe soon in someones area.

I've got an outlet store about 25 minutes or so from where I live so I don't have to pay shipping and can have the tool the same day.

Type in http://www.harborfreight.com and look on the left in the blue column "Retail Outlets". While you are there, you can order their full color catalogue.

I find that their tool quality is okay. Not the best, but far from the worst. It's great for a tool that isn't used frequently but sometimes necessary. Any way you slice it, the price is right.

BTW, in 25 years from now, when your chain plates are next done, it's a good bet that if you apply Neva-Seez on the bolts, they'll come right out for your grand kids or the next owner.

One last thing, rather than use WD40, I like to use Gunk's Liquid Wrench

Whatever,
O J

[Craig LeBlanc]

Rich,

That is a very clever approach to getting the bolts out. Ill be filing that one away-

Craig,

You may have noticed, but Harborfreight can take weeks to ship. They have great deals on tools one might use infrequently.

Chase

I agree,
Rich you're pretty clever
I think I'll try that approach with the PB blaster.
Thanks for the Replies
I still cringe at how easy that 1/2" bolt broke in half when I tried to loosen up the nut.
The bolt had minimal rust...what you would expect from being in contact with three different metals..Bronze, Stainless and Iron.
Craig

[Steve Laume]

You could simplify the backing out of the chain plate bolts by using a cap nut instead of locking two standard nuts locked together. No need to get two nuts on and locked in tight quarters, only one wrench and you can slip a socket right over the cap nut. It's still hard to get at things, Steve.