I need to remove the rudder on my CD 25 to make some hull repairs around the gudgeon. I believe there is a crack or something in the hard-to-access notch down the aft of the hull that the rudder pivots in which is letting some water penetrate into the filler material inside the glass layers down there. Can anybody tell me how to remove the rudder on on one of these things?
Thanks.
Rudder removal - CD25
Moderator: Jim Walsh
Rudder removal - CD25
S. Calder sv Falcon
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Dave Brandt
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Feb 14th, '05, 18:33
- Location: CD-25, #378, "Prairie"
Rochester, MN - Contact:
CD-25 Rudder
I have not have my rudder off, but I did have to remove all the glass around the gudgeon, this is what I found. The gudgeon is glassed into position, there were three pins that went through the gudgeon and the keel. Grind the glass away to find the pins and drive them out.
When I was working on the lower aft sections of the keel on my boat I found several sections that had large voids in them. I assume it was difficult to get the cloth and roving to stay put in these areas with really tight bends. The area around the gudgeon was largely hollow, only one of the pins was in anything substantial. The other other two areas with voids were on the aft section of the keel about 1 1/2 feet forward of the gudgeon and up about 3 inches and the area directly above the rudder. I opened these areas up, dried them out ( some were still wet, even with the boat being out of the water for a few years ) and filled them with epoxy. Hope that helps, let me know if you need more info.
Dave
When I was working on the lower aft sections of the keel on my boat I found several sections that had large voids in them. I assume it was difficult to get the cloth and roving to stay put in these areas with really tight bends. The area around the gudgeon was largely hollow, only one of the pins was in anything substantial. The other other two areas with voids were on the aft section of the keel about 1 1/2 feet forward of the gudgeon and up about 3 inches and the area directly above the rudder. I opened these areas up, dried them out ( some were still wet, even with the boat being out of the water for a few years ) and filled them with epoxy. Hope that helps, let me know if you need more info.
Dave
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Hi,
Jack the stern as high and as safe as practical, and then dig a hole in the ground under the rudder. This will enable you to slide the rudder post down and out of the rudder shaft in order to let you get at the leak.
There is a bronze strap that secures the gudgeon to the keel. Grind out the glass covering the strap to get at the rivets that hold the strap to the keel. Outline the area of the strap where it sits on the keel with a Sharpie magic marker.
Grind the rivet heads off. Using a drift pin, punch the rivets out. Remove the gudgeon and strap and drop the rudder down and away.
This is an ideal time to thoroughly check the leading edge of the rudder for any signs of deterioration. Also check the condition of the gudgeon bearing and replace if necessary.
Reassembly is the reverse order of removal. Silicon bronze drill rod is cut to full size and inserted through the holes in the strap and keel. Peen one end over to a mushroom head. Cut the other end to final size and peen to create a rivet This is a two person job.
Some people secure the strap to the keel with Everdur silicon bronze bolts and nuts. Grind excess thread flush with the nut. Reglass to original shape.
Good luck.
O J
Jack the stern as high and as safe as practical, and then dig a hole in the ground under the rudder. This will enable you to slide the rudder post down and out of the rudder shaft in order to let you get at the leak.
There is a bronze strap that secures the gudgeon to the keel. Grind out the glass covering the strap to get at the rivets that hold the strap to the keel. Outline the area of the strap where it sits on the keel with a Sharpie magic marker.
Grind the rivet heads off. Using a drift pin, punch the rivets out. Remove the gudgeon and strap and drop the rudder down and away.
This is an ideal time to thoroughly check the leading edge of the rudder for any signs of deterioration. Also check the condition of the gudgeon bearing and replace if necessary.
Reassembly is the reverse order of removal. Silicon bronze drill rod is cut to full size and inserted through the holes in the strap and keel. Peen one end over to a mushroom head. Cut the other end to final size and peen to create a rivet This is a two person job.
Some people secure the strap to the keel with Everdur silicon bronze bolts and nuts. Grind excess thread flush with the nut. Reglass to original shape.
Good luck.
O J
Reply
Thanks Dave and OJ for that valuable information. I hope like hell (can I say that here?) that I don't have to remove the rudder. By the way, Dave, you mentioned that you had water in the area just forward of your gudgeon but you didn't remove your rudder/gudgeon....were you able to determine the cause of the water intrusion? Was it osmotic or did you identify a breach. How extensive were the openings that you had to cut out to dry it out? I might have the same thing going on though my dampness seems to be limited to small areas about the size of a quarter peppered around within a foot of the rear of the keel, probably blisters. I find no voids in the filler material behind the lay-up like you did. And this filler is, for the most part, dry. Thanks again for the help and for sharing your experience.
S. Calder sv Falcon
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Dave Brandt
- Posts: 92
- Joined: Feb 14th, '05, 18:33
- Location: CD-25, #378, "Prairie"
Rochester, MN - Contact:
CD-25 Rudder
When I purchased the boat a previous owner had attempted some repairs in this area, bondo I think. Anyway, it was falling out and when I removed it I could see there had been some blistering, probably why the repairs had been attempted, so I am not sure what it looked like before it had been bondoed up. The gel coat in these areas I believe had been intact for the most part ( it was also very thick in some of the lower sections of the keel 1/2"+ ). In several areas the glass fiber had never been saturated with resin. Some of the areas were pretty good sized, I could get my finger them.
As to where the water came from, I can't say for sure, the low area of the bilge is in this area and I know it was never pumped out, so it could have permeated from the inside out?? I filled all the voids with epoxy, glassed the gudgeon back in and re glassed the leading edge of the rudder, epoxied the low area of the bilge and routed the bilge pump pick up's' into the lowest point.
Dave
As to where the water came from, I can't say for sure, the low area of the bilge is in this area and I know it was never pumped out, so it could have permeated from the inside out?? I filled all the voids with epoxy, glassed the gudgeon back in and re glassed the leading edge of the rudder, epoxied the low area of the bilge and routed the bilge pump pick up's' into the lowest point.
Dave