bottle or open body turnbuckle

[Mike C]

anyone have knowledge,

of whether the open body is better than bottle turnbuckles, I have just recieve information from a local rigger that for all tropic (Virgin Islands and south) yacht use it is always best to use the open body type because of build up corrision on the lower screw part of the turnbuckle

[Didereaux]

OPEN BODIED ALWAYS! and further only BRONZE, plated or plain.

Listen to the rigger. One of the most horrendous abominations ever perpetrated on any vessel in history is the damnable bottle(tubular) turnbuckle. The inventer of that mechanical monstrosity lends sole reason for not only applying a death penalty, but resurrecting medieval methods to accomplish it. If I continue further the foam dripping from around my mouth will surely put an end to this keyboard!

I may rightly be presumed to have certain feelings as regards this subject. ;)

[winthrop fisher]

Hi...open body, but i would go with stainless steel over bronzes, they last the longest...winthrop

[Didereaux]

Winthrop,
I respectfully disagree on your "...stainless steel over bronzes, they last the longest"

Stainless fails because it work hardens, bronze never does. That is why bronze is still called for by metallurgists and engineers in many modern applications instead of stainless.

Also one of the great problems that are specific to stainless/stainless turnbuckles is that salt galling is not only more severe it occurs rapidly and if the turnbuckles are not regularly turned to break them loose they will freeze up to the point that they cannot be moved without some damge occuring(although drenching them in Marvel Mystery Oil for at least two weeks will free up almost all of them).

Ask yourself why they plate bronze to look like a steel one. They do so fro aesthetics, so that the more durable and expensive bronze fitting can blend in with all the other shiny pieces on modern craft.

No, stainless has it's place, and bronze has it's as well. Aesthetics not withstanding.

btw your old Harbor Master Bill from Legend Point says Hey!

g'Luk

[Leo MacDonald]

Hi All,

I, like Mr. Didereaux, had some prior negative experience w/ SS turnbuckles. During a chat with the Rigger came (from the Rigger's mouth) "Use open bronze turnbuckles."

Concur with open bronze turnbuckles (aka: Rigging Screws)

Mr. Didereaux, based on your response, you must have had a hell of a time - worth retelling??

Fair Winds,
Leo

[Didereaux]

Yeppers there's a story or two, but even if I wrote up the whole thing it would wind up being two or more pages of <expletives deleted>. At least one incident with steel tubulars expanded the "Official Anglo-Saxon Book of Expletives" by 30% at least

[Oswego John]

Hi all,

Personally, all of my turnbuckles are bronze and the open type.

FWIW, I have a suggestion. Whether anyone uses bottle or open, stainless steel or bronze, the threads should have an annual coating of something to protect them from salt and weather. I use a thin film of white, lithium grease. I have read that some owners use anhydrous lanolin.

Even if you aren't into tweaking throughout the year, you probably will adjust them at the beginning and end of the season.

Penetrating oil can be used to free frozen threads. I know one guy that swears by Lock-Ease (liquid graphite) for his threads.

Think spring,
O J

[Steve Darwin]

Rigging Only in Fairhaven, Mass. replaced the forestay on my daysailer and insisted on an open, plated bronze turnbuckle and strongly suggested that I replace the bottle turnbuckles on the shrouds. The reason was simple: they are stronger and safer. Standard cotter pins keep the turnbuckle studs from turning, whereas the "safety" nuts on the bottle types often don't. Also, on a head stay with roller furling you want to make sure that the studs have plenty of thread engaged, whereas this is not immediately evident in the bottle types. Also, easier inspection for corrosion and stress cracks.

Also, they and other experienced people have advised against using those convenient cotter-rings as they sometimes rotate themselves out of the stud hole. It all sounded like good advice to me.

Steve

[Steve Laume]

I have lovely opened bronze turnbuckles. I also have a detachable stay for the staysail. It is set up to get it out of the way to fly a large genoa. There are cotter pins on all the turnbuckles except for the detachable which had a ring type safety pin holding in the pin to the chain plate. I say, had, because when out sailing in very light air last week the stay just parted from the fore deck! I was shocked and immediately went forward the see the pin lying on the deck and the little ring nowhere to be found. If it had been very windy or had it been any other piece of rigging, the consequences could have been most severe. I went right back to the junk tray in the galley, grabbed a film canister full of cotter pins and put it right. On my Typhoon the little rings held all the rigging pins. I don't know how it failed but I will not give it another chance. I will never have another of those little rings on any boat of mine. It is amazing how something so insignificant could have such and effect on your well being, steve.

[bottomscraper]

Our previous boat had those nasty tubular stainless things. They were replaced with open body bronze. Granted the boat was 30 years old but not a single one of them really worked right, even after soaking in Kroil. (Kroil was my Dad's favorite penetrating oil, he collected old stuff like bulldozers and tractors so he would buy several gallons at a time.) I am also a big fan of the Anhydrous Lanolin for lubrication and protection of turnbuckles.

[Jim Lewis]

28 years old and still going bottle type original on cape dory........
Hmmmmmmm even the bobstay which is immersed weekly......
Guess I have just been lucky???????

[M. R. Bober]

You want scary? My next door neighbor has a Morgan 41 (NO, that's not the scary part), which uses s/s turnbuckles with a threaded length of s/s (male) connected to two female s/s fittings. The male portion (swaged stud) has a squared center section (for a wrench) joining two pieces of threaded stock (one right and one left handed threading). These are large diameter turnbuckles
You want crevice corrosion? The male piece simply broke (separated) at the juncture of the the squared center section and the threaded section. THIS HAPPENED WHILE THE BOAT WAS DOCKED!!! Fortunately.

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Annapolis (where studs work better on dress shirts), MD
The URL will show you a similar stud. No reflection on the listed brand intended.
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... 10001/2830

[winthrop fisher]

Hi Didereaux,
sorry to take so long getting back with you...
you make allot of good points, but thats what i all was go with and i have never had any problems at all, and if that is true why does my rigging last 15 to 20 years before i have to replace it and thanks again...winthrop

Winthrop,
I respectfully disagree on your "...stainless steel over bronzes, they last the longest"

Stainless fails because it work hardens, bronze never does. That is why bronze is still called for by metallurgists and engineers in many modern applications instead of stainless.

Also one of the great problems that are specific to stainless/stainless turnbuckles is that salt galling is not only more severe it occurs rapidly and if the turnbuckles are not regularly turned to break them loose they will freeze up to the point that they cannot be moved without some damge occuring(although drenching them in Marvel Mystery Oil for at least two weeks will free up almost all of them).

Ask yourself why they plate bronze to look like a steel one. They do so fro aesthetics, so that the more durable and expensive bronze fitting can blend in with all the other shiny pieces on modern craft.

No, stainless has it's place, and bronze has it's as well. Aesthetics not withstanding.

btw your old Harbor Master Bill from Legend Point says Hey!

g'Luk

[Didereaux]

"sorry to take so long getting back with you...
you make allot of good points, but thats what i all was go with and i have never had any problems at all, and if that is true why does my rigging last 15 to 20 years before i have to replace it and thanks again...winthrop "


Oh that's an easy enough one to anwer...it wouldn't DARE go bad on you! heh

...on the other hand us lesser mortals ;)

[chase]

My boat has the open type and they seem to make sense for inspection. The threaded portion is stainless, however, which I think is the convention for metallurgical reasons that I currently don't know. Would bronze threads be too soft and prone to seizing?

Rich, we swear by Kroil on the farm, and buy it by the gallon. It also makes great cologne. Better than hog manure, anyway. I keep a can of aerosol on the boat.

Chase