Best teak finishing product?

[Tom Foley]

What is the best teak finishing product? Is it Cetol or something else? Is a teak oil product better? Please give details of your experience. My recently aquired CD25 has black teak. The last owner put linseed oil on it. Suggestions please.



alewifehouse@mainecoast.net

[Duncan Maio]

Tom:

We found that Cetol is easy to apply, attractive, and holds up very well to time and the elements. When we bought her, Remedy (our CD27) had been neglected for about five years. Sanding down to raw wood took some time and effort, but the actual application was easy and fast. We used disposable foam brushes; the few small bubbles that show up quickly disappear before the finish hardens.

Duncan Maio
s/v Remedy
CD27 #37
Bristol, RI



dmaio@att.net

[Donna Delahanty]

What is the best teak finishing product? Is it Cetol or something else? Is a teak oil product better? Please give details of your experience. My recently aquired CD25 has black teak. The last owner put linseed oil on it. Suggestions please.

Tom,

Do you know the coan of worm you are opening up?

Below are two previous posts I made about teak finishes to this or other bulletin boards or E-mail lists. Some of the information may repeat itself, I apologize. Here goes:

What product is best to use on your teak depends on the look you want
and how much effort you are willing to put out. As you will see, the
opinions are varied and each one is right for a particular individual.
Before I start, I must tell you that I am an avid believer of a bristol varnish finish and my opinions of how much work or how little work maintaining that bristol finish is, may be biased by this. I have even be told that I am 'fanatical' about it. Here's my story: I used teak oil on my Cape Dory for a couple of years before I switched over to varnish.

The experience I had with the teak oil was that about a month after
applying the oil the teak would begin to turn gray and I would have to
reclean and reapply the oil in order to maintain the natural teak color. Cleaning the teak with a teak cleaner was very messy and the teak cleaners were very harsh on the teak. I had always heard that varnish was alot of work and upkeep and had shyed away from it. But the teak oil was not giving me the look I wanted and I finally broke down and decided to try varnish. Yes, it was a lot of work preparing the teak and building up the initial 5-6 coats needed, however, I was willing to put out the effort because I loved the look of varnished teak so much. Once the initial build-up coats of varnish are applied, I found the upkeep of the varnish is pretty much the same as any other product. The upkeep being to lightly sand the old varnish and apply one to two new coats in the spring and again later in the season. Is this really much different from cleaning teak and reapplying oil? I don't think so and it's not as messy and harmful to the teak. If you want your varnish to maintain that bristol look, you must maintain it! With proper maintenance, varnish can last for many years. The big mistake many people make with varnish, is to apply the initial coats and not to do anything to it until the varnish has deteriorated so badly that it must be stripped (alot of work!) and the build-up coats reapplied. I have made the mistake of waiting to long do a light sanding and application coat in the spring and suffered the consequences. Now that I have spouted about how much a
purest I am when it comes to varnish, I am going to tell you about
another product I have discovered and am currently using on the Tartan
34C that I recently purchased. The product is called TufShield. It is
a synthetic varnish that has the same look and finish as varnish. It is quite expensive. The product can be applied over existing varnish, if you are not willing to strip the old varnish off, but it must be in good condition. I recommend stripping off the old finish and applying to bare clean bare wood. TufShield is a two part product - a base coat with UV protection and a sacrificial top coat. You apply 4 coats of the base coat, without sanding in-between (I sanded for a smoother finish)then 2 coats of the top coat. Sanding is required of the last base coat before applying the top coats. With the application of the 4 base coats and 2 top coats, the teak has the look of 12 coats of regular varnish. The product claims to be more durable than varnish. The maintenance is to lightly sand the top coat and reapply one or two top coats each season.

Since I have only applied this product in the summer of 1997, I don't
know the longevity of it yet. Others at the marina have commented on how nice the teak looks, but are waiting to see how mine holds up before deciding on the product. So far, I am very happy with the results from this product.


Below are some verbatim excerpts about TufShield from a “Special Bulletin” pamphlet available at the West Marine in Port Clinton, Ohio:

“TufShield delivers varnish-like or oil-like appearance, but it employs the most advanced aliphatic isocyanate chemistry, capable of protecting beautiful woods permanently...with only minimum upkeep and unheard of simplicity of application.

It consists of two different, easy to use single component coatings - # 1 Base Coat and # 2 Top Coat. Unlike varnishes or clear 2-part systems doomed to fail within a short time because of a monolithic wood protection, TufShield uses multiple weather shields laid by these two independent 1-part coatings, separately programmed and fortified against the elements.

When the complete TufShield System is applied, # 1 converts wood into a permanently stabilized substrate. It saturate wood deep inside and solidifies within the fibers, forming an extremely tough, yet flexible shield. (A) As the Base Coat bonds like a highly potent laminating adhesive, it allows using the sanding fiber dust as a grain filler, saving a lot of labor and materials. (B) Instead of thorough cleaning and vacuuming, this sanding fiber is simply buffed into the grain of the original surface with a TS Reducer-moistened lint-free cloth. The first penetrating Base Coat laminates loose fiber to the bottom of an open grain and with the subsequent #1 coats produces a fiber-reinforced “perma-seal” (A) (B) (C)...a new substrate over the wood surface.

#2 Top Coat, working as a “sacrificial” absorber of weathering effect, has no direct contact with wood, Diametrically different chemistries of #1 and #2 keep their independent weather protective systems physically separated, despite a very powerful bond in between. As #2 absorbs most of the weather impact, the “perma-seal” formed by #1 armed with a secondary protective system remains intact directly on and in the wood surface. No stripping to bare wood is therefore needed in normal use, during future maintenance. Since the Top Coat doesn’t blister or peel, once every 1-2 years the oxidizing effect is rectified by light sanding and the fresh #2 re-application restores the perfect appearance of the finish again.”

Here are some features of TufShield:

“- Compatibility permitting complete conversion to TufShield System by direct overcoating varnishes, epoxies, stains and oil finishes.

- Excellent curing properties allowing applications at high humidity, in direct sun, near freezing temperatures or during rainy weather - without effect on gloss retention.

- Fast drying on any wood, permitting 4 Base Coats or 2 Top Coats application in one day, under normal conditions.

- Powerful chemical bonding without sanding between coats.

- Unique “elbow grease” saving wood preparation system recycling sanding fiber as a grain filler and laminating it to the original surface during first coat application. This results in a wood surface conversion with its own fiber reinforced Base Coats providing a stable substrate for finishing Top Coats.

- Unique fully controlled staining technique after sealing wood surface with clear coats first.

- High abrasion and chemical resistance, flexibility and 100% elasticity, as well as total immunity to mildew and fungus.

- Superior color retention, salt and ultraviolet resistance.”

Now my own words. The Top Coat is available in gloss or satin. I use the gloss and can say that it looks just like high gloss varnish. There is no coloring as in Cetol. If you apply TufShield over an existing finish (ie, varnish, oil, stain) it must be in good condition. I chose to completely strip the old finish and apply the TufShield on bare wood. I believe the end results are cosmetically better and longer lasting. The finish on our boat has held up excellently in the two years it has been on the teak. There are no signs of “lifting” of the finish at all. The Base Coat looks and smells like airplane glue as it comes out of the can - really. The Top Coat looks more like regular varnish, but, smells different. I had one problem with the TufShield, that I still have not quite figured out. The base coat had areas where it “bubbled”. These were not bubbles caused by too much stirring or brushes. One theory I believe is that the TufShield skinned over before the solvents could escape. I just sanded these areas and reapplied. Another theory is technique, I found later, the bubbling wasn’t happening any more.

TufShield says you don’t need to sand between coats, however, I did to smooth out any spikes or particles that settled on it. It is very important, though, to build up the base coats. These are the coats that are doing the major protection. So, if you do sand in-between coats, you may want to put an extra coat on to make up for what was sanded off. I did wipe all the sanding dust away before applying any coats, an old habit that is hard to break from my varnishing days. ( I still use varnish on the interior).

The initial build up of the coats, though, faster than building up varnish coats, is, still just as gruelling. After all, you are putting on six coats of finish. However, I do feel that once that has been done, the following years will be much simpler that any other type of finish and hold up very well. You will love the complements you get about the teak.

TufShield is manufactured and distributed by Intertrade a Marine Division of M&A Coating Systems, Inc., 66 Thorncrest Road, Etobicoke, Ontario, M9A 1S9, Canada. (416) 232-2251. Another information source that was very helpful to me was the The Wooden Boat Shop in Seattle, Washington.( they sent me their step by step instructions for applying TufShield). Their address is 1007 Northeast Boat Street, Seattle 98105, (206) 634-3600, (800) 933-3600, FAX (206) 632 - 9101. The phone number for the West Marine store in Port Clinton, Ohio where I purchase TufShield is 419-734-9122.

I probably gave you more information than you wanted and hope it helps you in your quest for teak finishes.

Donna Delahanty
Sin Sal T34C #377
Ex owner of Windsong CD25 #808



maxg@fuse.net

[Bill Nitterauer]

I applied CETOL on my 25.Works and looke great! Be sure toapply the number of coats reccomended and then one new coat each year. Be careful to wipe up any spills on the gelcoat immediately.
Good Luck



WENITT@Localnet.com

[Ed Haley]

After years of varnishing and touch-up, I finally swallowed twice and sanded it all down and applied Cetol. I put three coats of Cetol Marine on and three coats of Cetol Gloss. It looks great and I get lots of compliments but the real payoff is in the spring when I just have to apply a single coat. No more big-time sanding and scraping. I get in the water earlier now.



eghaley@dreamscape.com

[Matt Cawthorne]

Tom,
Use the search feature of this bulletin board to find a wealth of opinions on the subject.
Matt

What is the best teak finishing product? Is it Cetol or something else? Is a teak oil product better? Please give details of your experience. My recently aquired CD25 has black teak. The last owner put linseed oil on it. Suggestions please.

mcawthor@bellatlantic.net

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Tom,
I'll probably take a beating for this, but I truly believe that a product called Tuff-Shield is the best teak finish I have ever used. It is first, expensive! Two pints of #1, two quarts of #2, and a quart of reducer recently cost me about $150.00! I plan on removing all varnish from Hanalei's brightwork this spring, applying 2 coats of #1 (at least), followed by as many coats of #2 that I can get out of the two quarts. This should give her a Bristol finish! In the past, this system has held up extremely well. My brother used it on his CD-30, and for two years all I did was touch up the wear spots with a light sanding, followed by an application of #2! Tuff-Shield is water white, so the color is natural teak, and looks great. It doesn't turn red or orange like some other finishes.

While we're on the subject of re-finishing, do you know of the BEST method for removing varnish. I'm thinking of sanding it all off, or using some type of water based paint remover. Someone said to try a heat gun to remove it, but I don't know about that! Hanalei's brightwork isn't bad, but it could use a good sanding. I'd like to take it down to raw wood and start all over again. Any advice would be appreciated.

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei (CD-30)

[Tom]

Tom,
I'll probably take a beating for this, but I truly believe that a product called Tuff-Shield is the best teak finish I have ever used. It is first, expensive! Two pints of #1, two quarts of #2, and a quart of reducer recently cost me about $150.00! I plan on removing all varnish from Hanalei's brightwork this spring, applying 2 coats of #1 (at least), followed by as many coats of #2 that I can get out of the two quarts. This should give her a Bristol finish! In the past, this system has held up extremely well. My brother used it on his CD-30, and for two years all I did was touch up the wear spots with a light sanding, followed by an application of #2! Tuff-Shield is water white, so the color is natural teak, and looks great. It doesn't turn red or orange like some other finishes.

While we're on the subject of re-finishing, do you know of the BEST method for removing varnish. I'm thinking of sanding it all off, or using some type of water based paint remover. Someone said to try a heat gun to remove it, but I don't know about that! Hanalei's brightwork isn't bad, but it could use a good sanding. I'd like to take it down to raw wood and start all over again. Any advice would be appreciated.

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei (CD-30)

I'm not the Tom you addressed your msg to, but the way to remove varnish is with a heat gun and pull scraper. You soften the varnish with the heat gun until it starts to blister up and then you pull the scraper through it. One swipe down to wood. Then you sand it to even it out. There's a trick to sharpening the scrapers which you have to do every few minutes. They sell a little file for this purpose right next to the scrapers. Best thing is to get someone to show you. Using this method you can take down the entire boat in an afternoon.

TacCambria@thegrid.net

[donna Delahanty]

D. Stump wrote:

" I'll probably take a beating for this, but I truly believe that a product called Tuff-Shield is the best teak finish I have ever used."

I whole heartily agree!

"I plan on removing all varnish from Hanalei's brightwork this spring, applying 2 coats of #1 (at least), followed by as many coats of #2 that I can get out of the two quarts."

I recommend putting on four coats of the base finish as the product instructions say. Yes, it is an expensive product, so use it to its full potential to get your moneys worth. See my previous post on this thread. The base coat is what is protecting the wood, so the more the better.

" While we're on the subject of re-finishing, do you know of the BEST method for removing varnish."

I recomend using a heat gun, also. It works quickly and easily and much less mess than a paint remover.


Donna Delahanty




maxg@fuse.net

[steve]

I think that Armada High Gloss is one of the best teak finishing products around.. I used it last year on my CD 27. When carefully applied, it was quite good with a good color, better than most other non-varnish ones.
steve

[Neil Gordon]

>>... do you know of the BEST method for removing varnish.<<

Jasco is slow but safe on gelcoat. Be *VERY* patient! I'm almost down to bare wood after 2 seasons. <G> Seriously, I got quite a bit of the varnish off and have been using teak oil on the bare wood, every couple of weeks. It seeps under the remaining varnish and lifts it, accelerating the de-varnishing process.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com