I'm about ready to install a water heater in the starboard lazzerette on Hanalei. Trouble is, the hatch has about 13.5" of clearance. So, the question is: What manufacture, size, model etc. water heater was originally installed in the Cape Dory 30 cutter? Any help or suggestions to make this project easier would be greatly appreciated....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei (CD-30)
CD-30, What water heater?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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JD
Re: CD-30, What water heater?
Hi Dave,
I ran into the same problem on my CD30 Ketch. I tried every manufacturer out there, and could not find one that would fit thru the opening.I decided just to put pressure water in and skip the heater, but would be interested if you find something that will fit.
Good luck
JD
JDJOHN001@worldnet.att.net
I ran into the same problem on my CD30 Ketch. I tried every manufacturer out there, and could not find one that would fit thru the opening.I decided just to put pressure water in and skip the heater, but would be interested if you find something that will fit.
Good luck
JD
JDJOHN001@worldnet.att.net
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Catherine Monaghan
Re: CD-30, What water heater?
Dave,
How much clearance is there above the engine? You may be able to slip a hot water heater through there if there's enough room, otherwise, install one the next time you remove the engine.
Have you seen the Isotemp hot water heaters? They've got a 4 gallon model that should fit through the lazerette opening. Check out their hot water heater models at: <a href="http://www.great-water.com/page4.html"> ... page4.html </a>. Also, a couple of the Atlantic Marine models should fit through the lazerette opening as well. They've got both stainless steel and fiberglass models. Check them out at: <a href="http://www.atlantic-marine.com/index.ht ... /index.htm </a>.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Raritan Bay
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
How much clearance is there above the engine? You may be able to slip a hot water heater through there if there's enough room, otherwise, install one the next time you remove the engine.
Have you seen the Isotemp hot water heaters? They've got a 4 gallon model that should fit through the lazerette opening. Check out their hot water heater models at: <a href="http://www.great-water.com/page4.html"> ... page4.html </a>. Also, a couple of the Atlantic Marine models should fit through the lazerette opening as well. They've got both stainless steel and fiberglass models. Check them out at: <a href="http://www.atlantic-marine.com/index.ht ... /index.htm </a>.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Raritan Bay
D. Stump, Hanalei (CD-30) wrote: I'm about ready to install a water heater in the starboard lazzerette on Hanalei. Trouble is, the hatch has about 13.5" of clearance. So, the question is: What manufacture, size, model etc. water heater was originally installed in the Cape Dory 30 cutter? Any help or suggestions to make this project easier would be greatly appreciated....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei (CD-30)
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: CD-30, What water heater?
Hi Dave and all,
I am also in the beginning stages of this project..looking for a place to put the water heater. In my case, we do not have pressure water..only the foot pump (by choice!). I am thinking that the smallest Isotemp (thanks for the URL for Isotemp by the way) heater would just fit through the door under the sink in the galley of our CD30. That model of water heater is 10.2 in. wide, and I think I measured the opening of that door at 10 in.or so. Can anyone confirm this?? What I was thinking is to install the heater horizontally
on the bulkhead under the sink. That area is quite open now. Only the galley footpump sits in there.
If the opening is too narrow, then I will pull the sinks and drop it down that way. The advantage here is the engine cooling water hose is right there at the muffler..easy to get to and easy to route back to the muffler..short runs --less heat loss.
Any comments??
Cheers!
Larry Demers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
I am also in the beginning stages of this project..looking for a place to put the water heater. In my case, we do not have pressure water..only the foot pump (by choice!). I am thinking that the smallest Isotemp (thanks for the URL for Isotemp by the way) heater would just fit through the door under the sink in the galley of our CD30. That model of water heater is 10.2 in. wide, and I think I measured the opening of that door at 10 in.or so. Can anyone confirm this?? What I was thinking is to install the heater horizontally
on the bulkhead under the sink. That area is quite open now. Only the galley footpump sits in there.
If the opening is too narrow, then I will pull the sinks and drop it down that way. The advantage here is the engine cooling water hose is right there at the muffler..easy to get to and easy to route back to the muffler..short runs --less heat loss.
Any comments??
Cheers!
Larry Demers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
D. Stump, Hanalei (CD-30) wrote: I'm about ready to install a water heater in the starboard lazzerette on Hanalei. Trouble is, the hatch has about 13.5" of clearance. So, the question is: What manufacture, size, model etc. water heater was originally installed in the Cape Dory 30 cutter? Any help or suggestions to make this project easier would be greatly appreciated....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei (CD-30)
demers@sgi.com
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Steve Alarcon
Re: CD-30, What water heater?
Dave,
Our CD30 is equipped with a water heater; it appears (from its condition) to be original. I think it is a circa 5 gallon Raritan, but will varify next time I'm on the boat. It is mounted forward of the batteries in the stbd lazarette, just like you are suggesting. The lazarette lid has not been modified. I'm not sure what capacity it is. The mount pad that it sits on matches the rest of the factory installed stuff, so it either was factory installed or nicely done.
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
steve.alarcon@attws.com
Our CD30 is equipped with a water heater; it appears (from its condition) to be original. I think it is a circa 5 gallon Raritan, but will varify next time I'm on the boat. It is mounted forward of the batteries in the stbd lazarette, just like you are suggesting. The lazarette lid has not been modified. I'm not sure what capacity it is. The mount pad that it sits on matches the rest of the factory installed stuff, so it either was factory installed or nicely done.
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
steve.alarcon@attws.com
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: CD-30, What water heater?
Larry,
The Isotemp under the sink sounds like a good idea. On Hanalei that area is essentially wasted space also. You mentioned the water hook up from the muffler! If you have a Universal 18 (14hp) in your vessel, the hook up is to the small (3/8") hose between the water pump(fresh water)and the engine thermostat. I have a diagram of it I got from the local Universal dealer, and will fax it to you if you can give me a number. The hookup to the engine cooling is surprisingly easy, probably the easiest part of the whole installation.
I'm now leaning towards the Raritan 1700 series 6 gallon water heater, to be placed in the starboard lazzerette. I'll be contacting Raritan today to find out if it is possible to disassemble the caisng on the heater to get it through the 13" lazzerette opening. I'll let you know here how I make out.
Haven't built the cradle yet, will do it in the spring. By the time I got around to it, the yard had placed her on a temp. cradle, that was almost identical to the CD cradle, and she's safe and secure for this winter. Sometimes there just is not enough time.
Oh, by the way, if you do decide to put pressure water on her, I did it last spring to Hanalei, it's not too difficult, just takes time. And, the pressure water keeps the cook and bottle washer very happy!!!
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
The Isotemp under the sink sounds like a good idea. On Hanalei that area is essentially wasted space also. You mentioned the water hook up from the muffler! If you have a Universal 18 (14hp) in your vessel, the hook up is to the small (3/8") hose between the water pump(fresh water)and the engine thermostat. I have a diagram of it I got from the local Universal dealer, and will fax it to you if you can give me a number. The hookup to the engine cooling is surprisingly easy, probably the easiest part of the whole installation.
I'm now leaning towards the Raritan 1700 series 6 gallon water heater, to be placed in the starboard lazzerette. I'll be contacting Raritan today to find out if it is possible to disassemble the caisng on the heater to get it through the 13" lazzerette opening. I'll let you know here how I make out.
Haven't built the cradle yet, will do it in the spring. By the time I got around to it, the yard had placed her on a temp. cradle, that was almost identical to the CD cradle, and she's safe and secure for this winter. Sometimes there just is not enough time.
Oh, by the way, if you do decide to put pressure water on her, I did it last spring to Hanalei, it's not too difficult, just takes time. And, the pressure water keeps the cook and bottle washer very happy!!!
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
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Jerry
Re: CD-30, What water heater?
Steve, I have the exact same setup on my CD30. The Raritan is just a bit to large to fit through the locker opening in one piece. Removal of a few sheet metal screws allows the top and bottom caps to be taken off, then the tank can be squeezed into an oval shape to fit in the locker. Once in the locker, the end caps can be reinstalled.Steve Alarcon wrote: Dave,
Our CD30 is equipped with a water heater; it appears (from its condition) to be original. I think it is a circa 5 gallon Raritan, but will varify next time I'm on the boat. It is mounted forward of the batteries in the stbd lazarette, just like you are suggesting. The lazarette lid has not been modified. I'm not sure what capacity it is. The mount pad that it sits on matches the rest of the factory installed stuff, so it either was factory installed or nicely done.
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
My tank heater is only hooked up to shore power. I haven't figured out a way to hook up the tank to the engine fresh water cooling system without introducing an air block problem, since the tank is higher than the engine. I'd be interested in how you solved this problem.
Regards, Jerry
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: CD-30, What water heater? Response of G. Reed!!
Larry,
Just received an E-mail from Gordon Reed (ex. RobinHood Marine service manager, see post above)about water heater retro-fit. Here's what he said: "This is one of the more common problems in the retrofit boat world. Most yachts were built with the water heater already installed before the deck goes on. Dirty trick. You should use the rectangular Seaward 6 gallon unit I think you are talking about. It is the most space conservative unit and is also the smallest dimensionally. The inexpensive stainless unit is the one I would recommend. You will never have to do it again and it will more than pay for itself if you go to sell the boat. Don't forget to put in a serge/burp tank at the same time or the engine pump won't push the water through the system. This gets mounted as high as possible and will becoome the place where you check your coolant. You will put a higher pressure cap on the heat exchanger in place of the cap that is there now to make up for the additional head pressure. I think 15 lbs. is about what you need at the lower cap. You should check on this pressure rating, I'm working from memory here. Gulp! Good luck and happy sailing. Gordon".
So, that's the story. I think Gordon gives good advice, and I will probably follow his advice if I can not dis-assemble the Raritan unit and rebuild it inside the lazzerette. I'll let you know how this finally plays out...
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
Just received an E-mail from Gordon Reed (ex. RobinHood Marine service manager, see post above)about water heater retro-fit. Here's what he said: "This is one of the more common problems in the retrofit boat world. Most yachts were built with the water heater already installed before the deck goes on. Dirty trick. You should use the rectangular Seaward 6 gallon unit I think you are talking about. It is the most space conservative unit and is also the smallest dimensionally. The inexpensive stainless unit is the one I would recommend. You will never have to do it again and it will more than pay for itself if you go to sell the boat. Don't forget to put in a serge/burp tank at the same time or the engine pump won't push the water through the system. This gets mounted as high as possible and will becoome the place where you check your coolant. You will put a higher pressure cap on the heat exchanger in place of the cap that is there now to make up for the additional head pressure. I think 15 lbs. is about what you need at the lower cap. You should check on this pressure rating, I'm working from memory here. Gulp! Good luck and happy sailing. Gordon".
So, that's the story. I think Gordon gives good advice, and I will probably follow his advice if I can not dis-assemble the Raritan unit and rebuild it inside the lazzerette. I'll let you know how this finally plays out...
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: CD-30, What water heater?
Jerry,
See the response from Gordon Reed! He describes a surge/burp tank that solves the problem of an airbound system. I remember seeing the installation on my brother's CD-30. It was maybe a 3" dia. by 8" long brass(bronze tank) with a normal radiator pressure cap on it. I have a diagram of the hookup to the engine (Universal 18)if you need it. The connection is made at the 3/8" heater hose between the fresh water pump and the thermostat. So that the hot water from the pump goes to the water heater and is returned to the thermostat. Really simple if you know what to do!
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
See the response from Gordon Reed! He describes a surge/burp tank that solves the problem of an airbound system. I remember seeing the installation on my brother's CD-30. It was maybe a 3" dia. by 8" long brass(bronze tank) with a normal radiator pressure cap on it. I have a diagram of the hookup to the engine (Universal 18)if you need it. The connection is made at the 3/8" heater hose between the fresh water pump and the thermostat. So that the hot water from the pump goes to the water heater and is returned to the thermostat. Really simple if you know what to do!
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: CD-30, What water heater?- Raritan Info!!!
I contacted Raritan Engineering this morning and spoke to their technical assistance rep. He said that the Raritan Heaters can no longer be dis-assembled (remove top & bottom caps to "eggshape" the heater to fit it through a hatch) as they now use a foamed in place insulation that will expand when you remove the top & bottom. This means you'd never get it back together! Also, the outer jacket is made of a composite (read that: plastic) that is glued and screwed together, so even disassembling it would be a problem. The rep. said he thought it would come apart in pieces. Well, as Gordon Reed suggested, I'm off to Seaward Products in California!!!
D. Stump, Hanalei (CD-30) wrote: Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei (CD-30)
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Larry DeMers
Re: CD-30, What water heater?
Hi Dave and everyone else,
First off..Happy Holidays to all of you out there!!
I can't install the water heater in the lazarette area because I have three batteries in the starbd. Laz. and fuel and alcohol in the other..just no room and the boat is already tail heavy. So it's either under the sink or nowhere for me. I have the Volvo MD7B fresh water cooled engine, and it's cooling connections are on the port side, precisely where I need them to be if I use the under-sink idea.
We don't want pressure water because there is always too much wasted. When we cruise, we are sometimes gone for 2 weeks at a time, and those 60 gals. have got to last that length of time. We found out on previous boats that pressure water resulted in nearly 50% being wasted..and that was with me harping about conserving water until even I was tired of saying it. Old habits die real hard sometimes. ;^))
Well shoot, I was hoping that I could get that cradle design to you in time for you to build that cradle! Next year! I have a friend here who used the pictures and diagrams to build his cradle two weeks ago, and it turned out nicely. The only thing he did that I would probably not do is to paint the cradle with house paint! It looks pretty strange.
Take Care,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
demers@sgi.com
First off..Happy Holidays to all of you out there!!
I can't install the water heater in the lazarette area because I have three batteries in the starbd. Laz. and fuel and alcohol in the other..just no room and the boat is already tail heavy. So it's either under the sink or nowhere for me. I have the Volvo MD7B fresh water cooled engine, and it's cooling connections are on the port side, precisely where I need them to be if I use the under-sink idea.
We don't want pressure water because there is always too much wasted. When we cruise, we are sometimes gone for 2 weeks at a time, and those 60 gals. have got to last that length of time. We found out on previous boats that pressure water resulted in nearly 50% being wasted..and that was with me harping about conserving water until even I was tired of saying it. Old habits die real hard sometimes. ;^))
Well shoot, I was hoping that I could get that cradle design to you in time for you to build that cradle! Next year! I have a friend here who used the pictures and diagrams to build his cradle two weeks ago, and it turned out nicely. The only thing he did that I would probably not do is to paint the cradle with house paint! It looks pretty strange.
Take Care,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Larry,
The Isotemp under the sink sounds like a good idea. On Hanalei that area is essentially wasted space also. You mentioned the water hook up from the muffler! If you have a Universal 18 (14hp) in your vessel, the hook up is to the small (3/8") hose between the water pump(fresh water)and the engine thermostat. I have a diagram of it I got from the local Universal dealer, and will fax it to you if you can give me a number. The hookup to the engine cooling is surprisingly easy, probably the easiest part of the whole installation.
I'm now leaning towards the Raritan 1700 series 6 gallon water heater, to be placed in the starboard lazzerette. I'll be contacting Raritan today to find out if it is possible to disassemble the caisng on the heater to get it through the 13" lazzerette opening. I'll let you know here how I make out.
Haven't built the cradle yet, will do it in the spring. By the time I got around to it, the yard had placed her on a temp. cradle, that was almost identical to the CD cradle, and she's safe and secure for this winter. Sometimes there just is not enough time.
Oh, by the way, if you do decide to put pressure water on her, I did it last spring to Hanalei, it's not too difficult, just takes time. And, the pressure water keeps the cook and bottle washer very happy!!!
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
demers@sgi.com
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: CD-30, What water heater?
Larry,
He painted the cradle with house paint!!! I hope it's not "Hot Pink". I have never seen one painted. They always look as if they have kicked around the yard for 20 years or so. Oh, well, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I think from what you describe, the Isotemp 6 gallon would be just what ya need. It would probably go under the sink easily. Oh, another idea, if you have CNG on board, is to use a small Swedish designed on-demand water heater. It's REAL small, only contains about 1 cup of water, but when you pump, it ignites, heats what you draw, and then shuts down. I think I can get details if that sounds interesting. Hanalei's going to get the Seaward 6 gallon rectangular. She has a Universal 18, 14hp on board so the hook up diagram would not apply to yours.
Good talkin' to ya....is it Spring yet??
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
He painted the cradle with house paint!!! I hope it's not "Hot Pink". I have never seen one painted. They always look as if they have kicked around the yard for 20 years or so. Oh, well, beauty is in the eyes of the beholder. I think from what you describe, the Isotemp 6 gallon would be just what ya need. It would probably go under the sink easily. Oh, another idea, if you have CNG on board, is to use a small Swedish designed on-demand water heater. It's REAL small, only contains about 1 cup of water, but when you pump, it ignites, heats what you draw, and then shuts down. I think I can get details if that sounds interesting. Hanalei's going to get the Seaward 6 gallon rectangular. She has a Universal 18, 14hp on board so the hook up diagram would not apply to yours.
Good talkin' to ya....is it Spring yet??
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
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John
Atlantic Water Heater
I posted this same info several months back but here it is again for you and any others seeking the same.D. Stump, Hanalei (CD-30) wrote: I'm about ready to install a water heater in the starboard lazzerette on Hanalei. Trouble is, the hatch has about 13.5" of clearance. So, the question is: What manufacture, size, model etc. water heater was originally installed in the Cape Dory 30 cutter? Any help or suggestions to make this project easier would be greatly appreciated....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei (CD-30)
Our boat is a '83 CD30 #271. She originally had a 6 gallon Raritan w/heat exchanger. I retrofitted the unit a few years back with a Atlantic 6 gallon / heat exchanger all stainless unit with a polished exterior. It fits perfectly on the platform in the starboard cockpit locker without any modifications whatsoever to the boat or the water heater. It slips right through the existing CD30 cockpit locker. Here are the particulars:
ATLANTIC MARINE PRODUCTS
8790 PARK CENTRAL DRIVE
RICHMOND, VIRGINIA 23227
TEL: 804/264-1169
FAX: 804/264-3070
Model T6E ("E" designates with heat exchanger)
12 1/2"w X 12 1/2"h X 15"l (17 1/2" = overall length W/ connections)
Tank material: 316L stainless
Jacket material: 304 stainless
Working pressure: 150 PSI
Insulation: 2" R18 high density fiberglass
Heating element: 1000W Chromalox Extended Life (others available)
Heat exchanger: Transcoil stainless 167 Sq. inch rapid recovery
Recovery rate: 18.5 gal./hr. @ 160* F
Indicating heating light on/off
Hope that info helps you out. I've never had a problem with the one we have. No rust, no failed heating elements, no problems at all. Far better than the original heater. I would not use it with a raw water cooled engine in salt water. If your engine is salt raw water cooled then you should use a heater with a ceramic tank. Consult the manufacturer for applications.
lightwork@earthlink.net
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Atlantic Water Heater
John,
Thank you for your response. The T6E Atlantic looks like a good bet. I was considering the Seaward 700, which is very similiar except that fittings are on both ends and it is slightly bigger. There is a $130.00 difference in price between the T6E and the 700, but I'm beginning to think that I either pay now or pay later!
One question, did you re-use the surge/burp tank from the original installation, or did you get a new one? If you got a new one, where did you get it and roughly what did it cost? The local Universal dealer said that he thought they were about $200! That's almost as much as the heater and seems pretty steep.
Thanks again.....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
stumpdg@gwsmtp.nu.com
Thank you for your response. The T6E Atlantic looks like a good bet. I was considering the Seaward 700, which is very similiar except that fittings are on both ends and it is slightly bigger. There is a $130.00 difference in price between the T6E and the 700, but I'm beginning to think that I either pay now or pay later!
One question, did you re-use the surge/burp tank from the original installation, or did you get a new one? If you got a new one, where did you get it and roughly what did it cost? The local Universal dealer said that he thought they were about $200! That's almost as much as the heater and seems pretty steep.
Thanks again.....
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
Hanalei
stumpdg@gwsmtp.nu.com
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Jerry
Re: CD-30, What water heater? Response of G. Reed!!
Regarding Gordon's advice: "Don't forget to put in a surge/burp tank at the same time or the engine pump won't push the water through the system."
Question: Is "surge/burp" the technical name for this appendage or was Gordon having a gas attack from something he ate when he wrote this? I checked the normal Marine catalogues and found no listing under either Surge or Burp. Where can I find one of these tanks?
Question: Is "surge/burp" the technical name for this appendage or was Gordon having a gas attack from something he ate when he wrote this? I checked the normal Marine catalogues and found no listing under either Surge or Burp. Where can I find one of these tanks?