Installing main halyard winch and fairleads on cabin roof

[Sea Hunt Video]

Tim:

Thanks very much

I hate to ask, but is there any way you could provide additional details about how you did this I would be interested in as much detail, photos, diagrams, etc. as possible.

At various times on the board it has been mentioned that there is some type of "liner" in the cabin roof and that I will have to deal with that. From your diagram it does not look like there is any liner. It's just fiberglass, balsa core and fiberglass which is what it sounded like to me when I tapped the cabin roof from both the outside and inside.

What size holes did you drill I am assuming you drilled 5-6 small holes for each of the 5-6 bolts to attach the winch and then dug out the balsa with a bent nail or similar.

How did you deal with the curvature of the cabin roof The base of the winch is flat. Did you build some type of plate out of wood (teak) that you formed to the curvature of the cabin roof

I would be very grateful for as many photos, diagrams, discussion details, etc.

I am in the serious process of considering buying a Triad trailer and hauling out S/V Bali Ha'i for the hurricane season (Jul - Oct). This would be a good time to install the winch, turning blocks, etc. It would also be a good time to remove and service the seacocks - something I am ashamed to admit I have not done in the 5 years I have been the caretaker of S/V Bali Ha'i.

Tim, thank you very much for as much as you can provide.

[tjr818]

Roberto.
I will be glad to keep you apprised as this project progresses. So far I cut a beautiful teak base to take up the "curvature, only to find out that the curvature is negligible. I will not be using the teak block. Some butyl tape should be enough to bed the winch. I set the base of the winch, marked off the five holes and drilled 3/8" holes through the top layer of fiberglass only in each location. I then reached in with an ice pick and cleaned out about 3/8" of balsa all around each hole. I sucked up the epoxy mixture into a syringe and used that to fill the holes. That is when I discovered the problem shown in the diagram. I had built up little masking tape dams around each hole but the dams where not high enough. Next time I will use Play-Dough. The epoxy flowed to a level condition and that is where the project is at the moment. The capillary action of the balsa sucked up some of the epoxy and the meniscus actually sealed the balsa up to the top core, even though it is not even with the top edge. It has been raining here for the last couple of days so I haven't gotten any further. Tomorrow I plan to go back (with the Play-Dough) and put in enough epoxy to fill the remaining void. After that, the plan is to drill very small holes (1/16") down through the epoxy and down through the liner. That will give me some idea of what I am dealing with.
Then the plan is to then drill up through the liner with a Forstner bit just big enough to allow a socket wrench to tighten the bolts. I imagine those would be about 3/4" diameter holes. I will put white plastic snap caps in each hole for what I hope will be a nice finished look, if I do not like that look I will cut one big 4"-5" hole and make a teak plug.
Sorry to be so long winded, but that is the plan and that is where I am right now. I will let you know how this progresses.
Fear not Roberto! Any hole that you or I could make could always be patched and no-one would ever have to know.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Tim:

Thanks Terrific info. No such thing as being long winded when you are trying to explain something to a dummy like me. The more detail you provide the better the chance I will understand most of it.

A thought about the cabin. When you say "the plan is to drill very small holes (1/16") down through the epoxy and down through the liner" is the "liner" you reference the fiberglass ceiling in the cabin

Also, I had thought of buying bolts that were long enough to come through the cabin roof about 3/8" to 1/2" and then screwing on large washers (as backing plates) and nuts. I was then going to use a drill (I guess you call it a "forstner" drill ) to create space in the teak disk for the nuts & bolts. I would then affix a round teak disk to inside of the cabin roof to "hide" the 5-6 bolts. I have not yet decided (figured out) how to affix the round teak disk to the inside of the cabin roof. Thoughts

My only reason for the teak disk on the inside of the cabin roof is to cover up the bolts/nuts/washers. It would be strictly decorative. Thoughts

[tjr818]

A thought about the cabin. When you say "the plan is to drill very small holes (1/16") down through the epoxy and down through the liner" is the "liner" you reference the fiberglass ceiling in the cabin Yes, the "liner" that I was referring to is the ceiling.

Also, I had thought of buying bolts that were long enough to come through the cabin roof about 3/8" to 1/2" and then screwing on large washers (as backing plates) and nuts. That was my thought too. That is one of the reasons for the small pilot holes, to see if there is enough room between the bottom of the cabin top and the "liner" for the large washers and the nuts.

I was then going to use a drill (I guess you call it a "forstner" drill ) Google a Forstner Bit, it just just a specialized bit that cuts hole that leaves a very smooth edge.

I have not yet decided (figured out) how to affix the round teak disk to the inside of the cabin roof. Thoughts That is one of my concerns too. I had thought about drilling an extra hole centered underneath the winch. A blot through that hole could be used to fasten the teak disc, but then the nut would be visible. I am still working on that step.

Keep those questions coming, that helps me think this through. Thanks.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Tim:

Thanks so much. Your posts are invaluable to someone like me. As much detail, diagrams, photos, etc. as you can post the better. I will need a LOT of help. Your suggestion to contrary, me drilling holes in a boat (even on the coach roof) is NOT generally a good thing and not something I was every taught.
It is down right scary.

[tjr818]

Here is what I have learned so far:
These dimensions are for our 27, others might vary a bit.

Hole in Cabin Top.jpeg

Roberto, I don't know how the interior lights are placed on your 25D, but on our 27 the interior dome light is very close to where I want the winch. I will be able to temporarily remove the dome light which is about 6" in diameter. I can then enlarge the hole that is there for the wiring and I will be able to place washers and nuts on, at least, three of the winch bolts.
The bolts will be 1/4-20 flat head 1-1/2" long. I will use self locking nuts and large Fender Washers.

I would suggest that you study, very carefully, the location that you are considering for the winch. Place the winch on the cabin top, with the handle in. Then place the rope clutch where you think it is best. Does the winch or the handle get in your way? How far forward do you want to reach to activate the rope clutch? Once you have decided on a location check to see how close that is to your interior dome light. You might be able to use that 6" diameter dome light to access the winch bolts. We would have had to move the winch forward more than I wanted to be able to center the winch over the light.

I will let you know soon what happens to a nut or washer that slips out of my hand and then might be forever lost above the ceiling

[Sea Hunt Video]

Tim:

I would install the winch, line clutch, etc. on the starboard side of the coach roof. On the CD 25Ds there is no dome light on the starboard side of the ceiling.

From you diagram it looks like there actually is a "liner" in the cabin that hangs below the "inside" or "bottom layer" of fiberglass. In your diagram it is labeled "ceiling" and you have determined it is 1/8" thickness and there is about 7/8" air space between the bottom layer of fiberglass and the ceiling liner - if I am understanding your detailed diagram correctly.

Assuming my cabin roof is the same, then my idea of having the bolts reach down in the cabin and affixing large washers (to act as backing plates) and nuts may not work because when tightened down the washers and nuts would "squeeze" the 1/8" liner up into the 7/8" air space between the fiberglass and the liner - again assuming I am understanding your diagram correctly.

Tim, what you are doing in providing these detailed diagrams and information is very much appreciated. It is beyond anything I could have dreamed of. THANK YOU

[Neil Gordon]

Because nautical vs. land based terms never cease to confuse us... what's labeled as "ceiling" is actually the "overhead."

"Ceiling" is a term that refers to a vessel's inner planking.

[tjr818]

I agree and perhaps that is the term I should have used. I had earlier referred to it a a liner trying to differentiate it from the actual cabin top fiberglass and the term liner seemed to be causing some confusion. I thought that the term ceiling would be more clear, but I had forgotten the real definition for ceiling when it comes to boats. I should have remembered Ensign Pulver putting the marbles in the Captain's overhead

[Sea Hunt Video]

Tim:

If my good friend Neil starts to get (or tries to get) too "technical" or "nautical" you can always remind him that recently, when discussing removing a line from a cleat someone (I won't mention any names - Neil G. ) called the line a "rope". Oh, Lord, the blasphemy

[Warren Kaplan]

Many have already described the techniques of drilling the hole and installing fiberglass, and then redrilling the deck.

Couple of things....On my CD27 I had to be careful because below, in the cabin, was a cabin light. So I had to position the winch as to not drill into that.

Second, when positioning the winch on the cabin top, if you have a dodger, MAKE SURE you try out the position with the dodger up before you drill. You want to BE SURE that there is clearance for your winch handle to make COMPLETE turns, or at least not be interfered with how you use it. If you position the winch too far "outboard" your winch handle just may not clear the side of the dodger!

Also make sure that all other hardware, deck organizers, and the like line up straight so the lines run true to the winch. So lay everything out first before you pick up that drill!!

Remember the old carpenter's rule...Measure Twice! Cut Once!

[Sea Hunt Video]

Warren:

That photo, and 1-2 others you have posted, was my inspiration for trying to install a winch, deck organizer, etc.

Tim:

Are you going to fill with epoxy the air space between the "liner" (ceiling) and the inside (cabin) fiberglass so the liner does not get "squished" Your diagram indicates it is about 7/8" air space. If so, what is the plan If not, are the washers (acting as backing plates) and the nuts going to be inside the air space or below the air space (that is on the "outside" of the liner/ceiling If inside the air space how are you planning to install the washers & nuts with only 7/8" space for fingers, washers & nuts

Sorry for so many questions. I am working off of an entire cup of Italian espresso

[Neil Gordon]

Tim:

If my good friend Neil starts to get (or tries to get) too "technical" or "nautical" you can always remind him that recently, when discussing removing a line from a cleat someone (I won't mention any names - Neil G. ) called the line a "rope". Oh, Lord, the blasphemy

Hmmm...

But the context of that was in giving instructions to land lubbers! "Don't touch the rope" seems more effective than "Don't touch the line."

[Steve Bryant]

Roberto,

Here are some photos that might help. They are of a CD25 but I would guess your 25D would be similar

In the first two you can see the gap between the headliner and the bottom of the deck fiberglass. There is a backing block and washers used to bolt the hardware to the deck. You can locate the optimum location to drill the access hole using a hole saw by drilling your mounting bolt holes all the way through the deck and headliner and centering the hole appropriately.

The teak trim piece is 1" larger in diameter than the access hole and held in place with #6 sheet metal screws that are screwed into the head liner.

There is nothing sacred about the access holes being round. You can make them rectangular and larger if you want to only have one access for the winch and rope clutches and you make your trim cover accordingly.

[Sea Hunt Video]

Steve:

Thanks Between you, Tim, Warren and, of course, my good friend who keeps us all "nautical" - Neil, I may actually be able to do this.

Candidly, I had thought of drilling a large hole (4" - 5" diam) up to the fiberglass but I then quickly decided this would not look right with a large 5" -6" diam teak disk screwed up onto the liner/ceiling. I would need to do the same for the line clutch (3 lines) and deck organizer (3 lines). Now seeing your photos it seems a lot more right. It also makes it a LOT easier to install the washers and nut. One might even fabricate a round aluminum or s/s backing plate with the 5-6 winch holes/bolts.

Tim, you are "hands on" with this right now. What are your thoughts about Steve's post and his idea of drilling a 4" - 5" round hole up into the liner

Between Tim's diagrams and the photos from Steve and Warren this long overdue project is looking like something I just might be able to do - once I have S/V Bali Ha'i hauled out, on a trailer and next door to the garage.

Once again, as it has for me so many times, this board helps to get a rookie started in the right direction. For any Cape Dory owner this an outstanding website.

Thanks