Tacking Angles

[JimL]

....single-handing and use the head. She seems to tack beautifully, all by herself (with the helm tied off, no less). Of course, that wasn't the plan.....but, sometimes you get what you get!

Seriously, I do pay attention to the "tacking cone" for making best speed to a windward point. The chartplotting GPS is a big help, in that respect (along with a copy of a "basic chart" that I draw the tacking cone on, after checking both beating angles). I've been able to sail over the top of some bigger, faster boats using a little attention. Overstanding the lay-line is probably a bigger mistake on my CD than it was on my Santana 20 or my wood Star. The S20 turned and accelerated quick enough to recover from headers (and jumped up on lifts) and the Star could sail just about straight into the wind! My CD doesn't appreciate such foolishness. Of course, anywhere I want to go here in California is upwind....therefore it's important to make the best of these short days off!



leinfam@earthlink.net

[Warren Kaplan]

....single-handing and use the head. She seems to tack beautifully, all by herself (with the helm tied off, no less). Of course, that wasn't the plan.....but, sometimes you get what you get!

Seriously, I do pay attention to the "tacking cone" for making best speed to a windward point. The chartplotting GPS is a big help, in that respect (along with a copy of a "basic chart" that I draw the tacking cone on, after checking both beating angles). I've been able to sail over the top of some bigger, faster boats using a little attention. Overstanding the lay-line is probably a bigger mistake on my CD than it was on my Santana 20 or my wood Star. The S20 turned and accelerated quick enough to recover from headers (and jumped up on lifts) and the Star could sail just about straight into the wind! My CD doesn't appreciate such foolishness. Of course, anywhere I want to go here in California is upwind....therefore it's important to make the best of these short days off!

Jim,
I've read that the "tacking cone" should be about 60 degrees. Do you actually measure one out when you enter it on your chart or do you sort of eyeball it? Do you use 60 degrees or what?
Thanks,

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY



Setsail728@aol.com

[Ken Coit]

And do we want to consider wind shifts, current, rounding the mark, and other boats?

I knew we couldn't resist.

Ken

....single-handing and use the head. She seems to tack beautifully, all by herself (with the helm tied off, no less). Of course, that wasn't the plan.....but, sometimes you get what you get!

Seriously, I do pay attention to the "tacking cone" for making best speed to a windward point. The chartplotting GPS is a big help, in that respect (along with a copy of a "basic chart" that I draw the tacking cone on, after checking both beating angles). I've been able to sail over the top of some bigger, faster boats using a little attention. Overstanding the lay-line is probably a bigger mistake on my CD than it was on my Santana 20 or my wood Star. The S20 turned and accelerated quick enough to recover from headers (and jumped up on lifts) and the Star could sail just about straight into the wind! My CD doesn't appreciate such foolishness. Of course, anywhere I want to go here in California is upwind....therefore it's important to make the best of these short days off!

Jim,
I've read that the "tacking cone" should be about 60 degrees. Do you actually measure one out when you enter it on your chart or do you sort of eyeball it? Do you use 60 degrees or what?
Thanks,

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY

parfait@nc.rr.com

[Bob B]

For tacking angles and such, I usually try to make few tacks and thus save on the work of the crew and the loss of speed from continually changing direction.
Knowing your boat and the angle that it can successfully tack is a bonus. I usually try and figure the distance from the point that I am trying to reach and calculate in there the side slip dependent upon the angle to the breeze. If I a going five knots and I am five miles off with a leeward motion of 3 degrees, then I draw a back angle off of the mark 3 degrees more than I would have needed. This amounts to overshooting the tack to account for leeward motion.
Play with it. It gives one a great set of problems to work on.

Bob B.



BundyR@aol.com

[JimL]

...The principal is to never get caught sailing away from the mark. So if I find the boat will only point within about 60 degrees (made good, judged by the GPS track and the wake), I then plot a line on 60 degrees and slide a right angle (I use a small drafting triangle) until a 90 degree line (from the 60 degree bearing plot) hits the mark. If you sail beyond that point, you are sailing away from the mark, period, no questions asked! That's where you get an approximate 60 degree cone. As you can see, the better the boat points, the more advantage it has in the same cone. Our boats need to foot a little, especially when climbing big waves, so we take more chances by pushing the cone out.

Truth is, the wave set and current will really show up when you watch true wind direction (If needed, I'll pull a tack early to check). I'm not skilled at figuring out true wind from apparent wind and vessel speed, so I have to work it out somewhat by feel. I used to use a taffrail log on the Santana 20 to keep track of "right" or "left" speed (no currents or tides on the mountain lakes). It worked well because we were tacking so often.

I'm finding that my CD will make enough extra speed on a typical NNW swell, with a NW wind, that I can use the added boatspeed to work closer to that layline (of the tacking cone)on starboard tack. I've been surprised to see how much faster she'll go when I work the swell shadow below Catalina Island. The smaller waves are worth more than windspeed! Anyway, when I'm not sure, I play a shorter cone, as if the course was a series of windward marks laid out in a line (keeps you from getting caught outside on a fatal flyer). This can work if you use wave action and boat speed to roll the tacks around smoothly.....which I'm still trying to figure out on this boat (the S20 could almost roll-tack).

Even when we're only half-right, it's all great sport!



leinfam@earthlink.net

[Ken Coit]

Seems like it might take a very heavy weight crew.

I am having a hard time visuallizing the line 90 degrees from the 60 degree layline how you use it. Maybe I am misunderstanding the 60 degree line?

Thanks,


Keep on sailing,

Ken Coit
CD/36 Parfait
Hailing Port: Raleigh, NC
Sailing from: Beaufort, NC

...The principal is to never get caught sailing away from the mark. So if I find the boat will only point within about 60 degrees (made good, judged by the GPS track and the wake), I then plot a line on 60 degrees and slide a right angle (I use a small drafting triangle) until a 90 degree line (from the 60 degree bearing plot) hits the mark. If you sail beyond that point, you are sailing away from the mark, period, no questions asked! That's where you get an approximate 60 degree cone. As you can see, the better the boat points, the more advantage it has in the same cone. Our boats need to foot a little, especially when climbing big waves, so we take more chances by pushing the cone out.

Truth is, the wave set and current will really show up when you watch true wind direction (If needed, I'll pull a tack early to check). I'm not skilled at figuring out true wind from apparent wind and vessel speed, so I have to work it out somewhat by feel. I used to use a taffrail log on the Santana 20 to keep track of "right" or "left" speed (no currents or tides on the mountain lakes). It worked well because we were tacking so often.

I'm finding that my CD will make enough extra speed on a typical NNW swell, with a NW wind, that I can use the added boatspeed to work closer to that layline (of the tacking cone)on starboard tack. I've been surprised to see how much faster she'll go when I work the swell shadow below Catalina Island. The smaller waves are worth more than windspeed! Anyway, when I'm not sure, I play a shorter cone, as if the course was a series of windward marks laid out in a line (keeps you from getting caught outside on a fatal flyer). This can work if you use wave action and boat speed to roll the tacks around smoothly.....which I'm still trying to figure out on this boat (the S20 could almost roll-tack).

Even when we're only half-right, it's all great sport!

parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com

[Mario]

OK....I give up...

What's a tacking cone?

Mario



capedory252NOSPAM@aol.com

[Hanalei]

Mario,

little flourescent bright orange, cone shaped float that you try to sail(tack) around.......Sorry, only kidding, I'm sure Captain Kaplan will answer the question for you.....I couldn't resist, it's been a tough day....

Hanalei

[Ken Coit]

Well, instead of holding ice cream, tacking cones are containers for tacks.

Actually, they are, but isn't that silly?

Ken

OK....I give up...

What's a tacking cone?

Mario

parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com

[JimL]

If your boat will point within 60 degrees of the wind, the course is a line drawn at a 60 degree angle up FROM the windline....so when you reach a point on your course that the mark is dead abeam (90 degrees to your side), every inch beyond that point is moving AWAY from the mark....no matter how far or close you are to the mark. In reality, you generally don't want to take yourself all the way to that point "directly 90 degrees abeam" of the mark. A small wind shift can force you into an unfavorable position when you are subject to rules (other boats racing around you). There are times when you know the wind will clock to advantage, or shore breezes can give you a lift, that will make sailing to the layline advantageous....but drift cannot be predicted when the wind speed isn't absolutely constant, wave patterns change, or crew move around. It still comes down to using a somewhat conservative approach to prevent losses.

During my long gone racing days, I practiced tacking over and over, training crew to get smooth tacks with accurate recovery. That ability to make a tack with zero errors becomes the difference between winning and losing. When everyone sails within the cone, and covers or attacks constantly.....only tacking skill can gain inches or feet.

I'm not trying to claim I was a great racer, but we did have some good races on mountain and prairie lakes, including an overall Governors Cup win in a really big event. It was nothing brilliant, or chancy.....simply detail, detail, detail....tack on every header and concentrate on every lift.

One last note....when riding a lift near the layline, that 90 degrees abeam line swings to a point below the mark, but the instant the shift comes back, you'll be outside the tacking cone. You know you've made that mistake when you find yourself near the mark, sheeting out to ease your course for a correct rounding.....you got caught outside...and you gave up distance. The error is sometimes masked slightly by improved boat speed, but it will always cost you.

Hope I'm explaining this better....the folks who tried to teach me were a group of really nice Star sailors, including some folks who'd been to Olympic selection trials. I never was able to keep up with them, even when I got my Star. It was still fun to try to practice what they preached!


Regards, Jim Leininger CD25 #21, Dana Point, CA



leinfam@earthlink.net

[Warren Kaplsn]

If your boat will point within 60 degrees of the wind, the course is a line drawn at a 60 degree angle up FROM the windline....so when you reach a point on your course that the mark is dead abeam (90 degrees to your side), every inch beyond that point is moving AWAY from the mark....no matter how far or close you are to the mark. In reality, you generally don't want to take yourself all the way to that point "directly 90 degrees abeam" of the mark. A small wind shift can force you into an unfavorable position when you are subject to rules (other boats racing around you). There are times when you know the wind will clock to advantage, or shore breezes can give you a lift, that will make sailing to the layline advantageous....but drift cannot be predicted when the wind speed isn't absolutely constant, wave patterns change, or crew move around. It still comes down to using a somewhat conservative approach to prevent losses.

During my long gone racing days, I practiced tacking over and over, training crew to get smooth tacks with accurate recovery. That ability to make a tack with zero errors becomes the difference between winning and losing. When everyone sails within the cone, and covers or attacks constantly.....only tacking skill can gain inches or feet.

I'm not trying to claim I was a great racer, but we did have some good races on mountain and prairie lakes, including an overall Governors Cup win in a really big event. It was nothing brilliant, or chancy.....simply detail, detail, detail....tack on every header and concentrate on every lift.

One last note....when riding a lift near the layline, that 90 degrees abeam line swings to a point below the mark, but the instant the shift comes back, you'll be outside the tacking cone. You know you've made that mistake when you find yourself near the mark, sheeting out to ease your course for a correct rounding.....you got caught outside...and you gave up distance. The error is sometimes masked slightly by improved boat speed, but it will always cost you.

Hope I'm explaining this better....the folks who tried to teach me were a group of really nice Star sailors, including some folks who'd been to Olympic selection trials. I never was able to keep up with them, even when I got my Star. It was still fun to try to practice what they preached!


Regards, Jim Leininger CD25 #21, Dana Point, CA

Jim gives an excellent explaination. If you can see the mark (destination for cruisers) it all becomes a matter of tacking when the mark is 90 degrees abeam, as Jim says. But for cruisers, where the destination may be far over the horizon, you have to determine that another way. If you have the destination's coordinates entered into your GPS, it becomes pretty easy. You sail your best upwind course on one tack, and when the destination "waypoint" is 90 degrees RELATIVE to your boat's actual course, you tack over. To go further, just adds distance unnecessarily. You sail on the new tack until the waypoint once again reads 90 degrees relative to that course. Then you tack again...so on and so forth. If you drew this on a chart, you'd see that the distance sailed between tacking over gets less and less as you approach the mark. Its shaped like a cone..widest at the start and narrowist at the destination. If you don't have the destination in a gps, you can draw your 60 degree lines (or 50 degrees if your boat points better...only you know) in each direction. Plot that course from the compass rose on the chart. Then draw the 90 degree lines from the destination to those 60 degree lines. You can measure the distance on the chart from the start to that intersection and figure out approximately how long it will take to sail that distance on that course. You sail it, and then you tack over. You can measure as you progress between the lines of the cone and figure how long to sail each leg and then tack. With tides, currents wind speed and direction, leeway etc alway changing, its easy to understand why the pros have a computer on board that constantly measures these changes and spits out new tacking times. For us, the best thing to do to get to a destination way in the distance upwind is to enter it (or something nearby) in the gps and tack towards it, tacking when the gps says its bearing is 90 degrees to our present heading. As we get closer, the times and distance between tacks will be shorter. I think I got it right. All I know is if I get out to Rhode Island this summer with the NE fleet, the trip back home to Oyster Bay is a long one to the southwest. Dead into the prevailing wind. So, I may have a chance to try this all out for adestination far over the horizon to windward.

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY



Setsail728@aol.com

[Don Carr]

Warren; Yes, you will have to tack. However your tacks will be about 15-20 miles each. Basically you'll tack to LI then port tack to CT etc, etc. You'll get the most headway on your port tacks as you'll be on a close reach most of the time.

FWIW



carrds@us.ibm.com

[Ken Coit]

Jim,

Thanks for your perseverance in getting my head screwed on right. Maybe it was helped by a good night's sleep. I was thinking the 60 degree line was the cone, not the course line; how dumb!

Of course you tack when the mark is abeam or less depending on many other variables. I knew that! I just didn't get in the right frame of mind when I read your explanation.

Having raced for many years on Lake Pleasant in AZ, where the wind regularly shifts 180 degrees during the first race of the day, I have lots of stories about other variables, but we won't go there now.

Thanks!

Ken

If your boat will point within 60 degrees of the wind, the course is a line drawn at a 60 degree angle up FROM the windline....so when you reach a point on your course that the mark is dead abeam (90 degrees to your side), every inch beyond that point is moving AWAY from the mark....no matter how far or close you are to the mark. In reality, you generally don't want to take yourself all the way to that point "directly 90 degrees abeam" of the mark. A small wind shift can force you into an unfavorable position when you are subject to rules (other boats racing around you). There are times when you know the wind will clock to advantage, or shore breezes can give you a lift, that will make sailing to the layline advantageous....but drift cannot be predicted when the wind speed isn't absolutely constant, wave patterns change, or crew move around. It still comes down to using a somewhat conservative approach to prevent losses.

During my long gone racing days, I practiced tacking over and over, training crew to get smooth tacks with accurate recovery. That ability to make a tack with zero errors becomes the difference between winning and losing. When everyone sails within the cone, and covers or attacks constantly.....only tacking skill can gain inches or feet.

I'm not trying to claim I was a great racer, but we did have some good races on mountain and prairie lakes, including an overall Governors Cup win in a really big event. It was nothing brilliant, or chancy.....simply detail, detail, detail....tack on every header and concentrate on every lift.

One last note....when riding a lift near the layline, that 90 degrees abeam line swings to a point below the mark, but the instant the shift comes back, you'll be outside the tacking cone. You know you've made that mistake when you find yourself near the mark, sheeting out to ease your course for a correct rounding.....you got caught outside...and you gave up distance. The error is sometimes masked slightly by improved boat speed, but it will always cost you.

Hope I'm explaining this better....the folks who tried to teach me were a group of really nice Star sailors, including some folks who'd been to Olympic selection trials. I never was able to keep up with them, even when I got my Star. It was still fun to try to practice what they preached!


Regards, Jim Leininger CD25 #21, Dana Point, CA

parfaitNOSPAM@nc.rr.com

[JimL]

....imagine smaller cones stacked one on top of another, but the line of cones can be bent into a curve if needed. You won't actually sail to the point of extremely small tacks, but the mental image is how it works. The advantage over a long course is preventing a "trap". If you start at the very wide base of a cone (to a destination), you may find yourself straight downwind...a long way away....when you reach the layline (if the wind shifts). Working a narrower cone, so to speak, will keep you moving toward the destination (mark) and reduce the distance caught out in a wind shift. In the Star, on a light a fluky day, the rule was "if the wind stops, turn straight toward the mark immediately". The odds are good that the wind will not fill in exactly from where it stopped, so there is no point in worrying about "caught in irons". The boats momentum will probably slide it 50 feet or better closer to the mark.

That 50 feet is magic when you're the guy crossing ahead of the other fellow as you near the mark. The tacking cone has become so narrow that he needs two more tacks than you do.....he is truly CLOBBERED. Now you can cover, and he must attack. That's always the upper hand!

Also, think of your tacking cones based on current, local knowledge, and observation of wind and wave patterns on the course upwind. Watch for boats to windward that are hobby-horsing more than yours (when you're sailing similar/same boat). That means they have more wave action, proportionately, and maybe less drive. Mentally move your narrower tacking cone to the most advantageous side of their situation. Sometimes I'll work a very lopsided tacking pattern, within the cone, to reduce as much as possible the plunging and bucking tacks that destroys boat speed. The best way I know to lose a race, is to be committed to your plan. That committment rapidly turns to fixation, followed by indecision. Indecision always leaves me sailing off into the distance thinking miserable thoughts, while the fleet climbs away!

I've rambled on for too long, but I'd like to add that big wind becomes a boat speed race, but light wind becomes a thievery of inches. Going slow makes long minutes out of very small distance gains. It really is a big chess game, isn't it!



leinfam@earthlink.net

[Warren Kaplan]

Jim,
I can see that racing is still in your blood! The principles of getting upwind fast, an absolute requirement for effective racing, certainly can be used, albeit more leisurely, to get to an upwind destination while cruising. We all manage to "get there" eventually but its nice to know how to do it without having to add an extra hour to the trip when you're not inclined to do so. Thanks for your observations.

Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY



Setsail728@aol.com