I added large eyebolts, on teak blocks, on top of the cabin, each side of the hatch. The jacklines run forward on each side of the seahood, through the foredeck cleat. That's about as close to center as is convenient on my 25. Because of the boats small size, my tether works fine clipped forward to the cabin top, and I can get to food and drink in the cabin without unclipping. I stay clipped to the windward side, on the theory I'll fall downhill if I slip (gravity has been pretty reliable, so far!).
The advantage to this method, is that it prevents walking on the jacklines while going forward, and it's possible to double loop (shorten) the tether when things are really rough. No problems in the cockpit, either. The lower left photo on 1st page of my website shows the location of these eyes. You can anchor eyes remotely by running a short cable from a double-nut on the (inside) end of the bolt, down to the bottom of the bulkhead where there is room for larger backing. In a drastic situation, the eye bolt and teak block (it's also bolted at each end) might tear partially loose, but the eye bolt can't get very far with the big lower anchor.
leinfam@earthlink.net
Cockpit padeyes
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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JimL
P.S.....that's a really handy spot for a pair of eyebolts!
Especially when securing a sunshade in the harbor, or hanging trashbags while sitting in the slip!
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Warren Kaplan
Re: Cockpit padeyes
Ed,Ed Haley wrote: As a slight variation in rigging jacklines, I run jacklines from the bow cleat, then AROUND the base of the mast, then to the stern cleats on both sides of the boat. That way there isn't as much lateral travel in case I lose my balance and stumble toward the water side of the rail. If you really want to feel safe when unclipping from aft of the mast to forward of the mast, wear double-clipping tethers.
First, it was good to see you again in Connecticut 2 weeks ago. I've been thinking also about doing what you suggested. I really do feel that jacklines anywhere but down the centerline of a narrow beamed boat may keep me attached to the boat, but sadly, not aboard the boat. I was thinking about the double tethers too. Sort of a belt and suspenders mindset. But since double tethers are available, the safety people must have been thinking about that too. It may be inconvenient to clip and unclip because the jackline is interrupted by a fitting (mast, eyebolt) but I'll gladly put up with the inconvenience if the setup keeps me aboard the boat should I lose my balance on a slippery deck in a rolling sea!
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Setsail728@aol.com
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Bill Goldsmith
What an excellent discussion.
I've been following this thread with great interest. I've always felt that jacklines on my 27, while necessary equipment, still wouldn't prevent you from trailing along in the water if the autopilot were set while singlehanding. And even if not on autopilot, you may round up into the wind, but how do you get back on the boat? (I recall earlier threads about singlehanders who rigged boarding ladders that could be deployed from the water.)
Anyhow, I like the idea of clipping into the windward jackline, and the idea of cabintop padeyes. On the 27, one or two cabintop padeyes would probably give you scope enough to do all deck chores. Cabintop Jacklines would also be nice, but may be overkill if a couple of padeyes would work. In the cockpit I like the idea of a centermounted padeye forward, down low, to keep you in the cockpit.
When singlehanding, I'd consider using double tethers. Goung from the cockpit to the deck, first hook one tether to the deck jackline, then unhook the cockpit one. When on deck, hook the loose one to the cabintop jackline or padeye and maybe to other to the windward deck jackline. Going back to the cocpit, reverse the procedure, therefore never being unhooked. The only drawback is possible getting tangled!
Nice topic.
Best,
Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
.As said, the key when singlehanding is not going over. hen sailing alone, or in rough weather, or with the autopilot engaged, many sailing safety gurus advise wearing a harness and clipping in to something substantial to keep you aboard....just in case. They suggest this even if you remain in the cockpit. I've got jacklines that will run from the bow down both sides of the deck to the cockpit. I really don't want to bring anymore lines into the cockpit to clutter things up. I have read where some sailors have padeyes strategically located throughout the cockpit to clip in to. Obviously the number of padeyes necessary will depend on the size of the cockpit. I have a CD27 with a tiller. I was thinking of installing a padeye on each side of the cockpit on the vertical wall of both the port and starboard cockpit lockers. I'd put a big backing plate in to spread out the load. I might even put one thru the wall of the stern cockpit locker, the same way, thereby allowing me to place the port and starboard padeyes a little more forward in the cockpit. A couple of questions. First, do you think good, solid padeyes are a good idea over running jacklines into the cockpit? Second, do you think the walls of the cockpit's lockers are strong enough for this purpose if a large backing plate is also installed? Third, are there any drawbacks to doing this? I anxiously solicit your comments or alternatives!
goldy@bestweb.net
Anyhow, I like the idea of clipping into the windward jackline, and the idea of cabintop padeyes. On the 27, one or two cabintop padeyes would probably give you scope enough to do all deck chores. Cabintop Jacklines would also be nice, but may be overkill if a couple of padeyes would work. In the cockpit I like the idea of a centermounted padeye forward, down low, to keep you in the cockpit.
When singlehanding, I'd consider using double tethers. Goung from the cockpit to the deck, first hook one tether to the deck jackline, then unhook the cockpit one. When on deck, hook the loose one to the cabintop jackline or padeye and maybe to other to the windward deck jackline. Going back to the cocpit, reverse the procedure, therefore never being unhooked. The only drawback is possible getting tangled!
Nice topic.
Best,
Bill Goldsmith
CD27#173
Second Chance
.As said, the key when singlehanding is not going over. hen sailing alone, or in rough weather, or with the autopilot engaged, many sailing safety gurus advise wearing a harness and clipping in to something substantial to keep you aboard....just in case. They suggest this even if you remain in the cockpit. I've got jacklines that will run from the bow down both sides of the deck to the cockpit. I really don't want to bring anymore lines into the cockpit to clutter things up. I have read where some sailors have padeyes strategically located throughout the cockpit to clip in to. Obviously the number of padeyes necessary will depend on the size of the cockpit. I have a CD27 with a tiller. I was thinking of installing a padeye on each side of the cockpit on the vertical wall of both the port and starboard cockpit lockers. I'd put a big backing plate in to spread out the load. I might even put one thru the wall of the stern cockpit locker, the same way, thereby allowing me to place the port and starboard padeyes a little more forward in the cockpit. A couple of questions. First, do you think good, solid padeyes are a good idea over running jacklines into the cockpit? Second, do you think the walls of the cockpit's lockers are strong enough for this purpose if a large backing plate is also installed? Third, are there any drawbacks to doing this? I anxiously solicit your comments or alternatives!
Warren Kaplan wrote: Thanks guys,
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
Cd27 #166 1980
goldy@bestweb.net
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Mike Thorpe
Re: Cockpit padeyes
This is a great discussion and something that I have been doing a lot of reading on lately. I plan to sail Journey's End to Bermuda in June 2003. In addition to jacklines on deck I've come across the following suggestions.
Jacklines in the cockpit well both port and starboard running from pad eyes located fore and aft on the cockpit walls. Also provides strong points to tie off the helm when heaving to.
A pad eye near the companionway that you can hook onto before coming topsides and to stay attached until you are below decks.
Permenmtly attached harnesses at the various work stations (mast, fore deck, etc.) that you can use in addition to your standard harnesss. The length of these permanent harnesses should be sized to limit your movements to the work area only.
It goes without saying that all of the attachment points should be as stong as the jacklines themselves (6,000 lbs.)
Mike Thorpe
s/v Journey's End CD-36 #144
mthorpe@capecod.net
Jacklines in the cockpit well both port and starboard running from pad eyes located fore and aft on the cockpit walls. Also provides strong points to tie off the helm when heaving to.
A pad eye near the companionway that you can hook onto before coming topsides and to stay attached until you are below decks.
Permenmtly attached harnesses at the various work stations (mast, fore deck, etc.) that you can use in addition to your standard harnesss. The length of these permanent harnesses should be sized to limit your movements to the work area only.
It goes without saying that all of the attachment points should be as stong as the jacklines themselves (6,000 lbs.)
Mike Thorpe
s/v Journey's End CD-36 #144
Warren Kaplan wrote: When sailing alone, or in rough weather, or with the autopilot engaged, many sailing safety gurus advise wearing a harness and clipping in to something substantial to keep you aboard....just in case. They suggest this even if you remain in the cockpit. I've got jacklines that will run from the bow down both sides of the deck to the cockpit. I really don't want to bring anymore lines into the cockpit to clutter things up. I have read where some sailors have padeyes strategically located throughout the cockpit to clip in to. Obviously the number of padeyes necessary will depend on the size of the cockpit. I have a CD27 with a tiller. I was thinking of installing a padeye on each side of the cockpit on the vertical wall of both the port and starboard cockpit lockers. I'd put a big backing plate in to spread out the load. I might even put one thru the wall of the stern cockpit locker, the same way, thereby allowing me to place the port and starboard padeyes a little more forward in the cockpit. A couple of questions. First, do you think good, solid padeyes are a good idea over running jacklines into the cockpit? Second, do you think the walls of the cockpit's lockers are strong enough for this purpose if a large backing plate is also installed? Third, are there any drawbacks to doing this? I anxiously solicit your comments or alternatives!
Thanks guys,
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
Cd27 #166 1980
mthorpe@capecod.net
-
Mike Thorpe
Re: Cockpit padeyes
This is a great discussion and something that I have been doing a lot of reading on lately. I plan to sail Journey's End to Bermuda in June 2003. In addition to jacklines on deck I've come across the following suggestions.
Jacklines in the cockpit well both port and starboard running from pad eyes located fore and aft on the cockpit walls. Also provides strong points to tie off the helm when heaving to.
A pad eye near the companionway that you can hook onto before coming topsides and to stay attached until you are below decks.
Permenmtly attached harnesses at the various work stations (mast, fore deck, etc.) that you can use in addition to your standard harnesss. The length of these permanent harnesses should be sized to limit your movements to the work area only.
It goes without saying that all of the attachment points should be as stong as the jacklines themselves (6,000 lbs.)
Mike Thorpe
s/v Journey's End CD-36 #144
mthorpe@capecod.net
Jacklines in the cockpit well both port and starboard running from pad eyes located fore and aft on the cockpit walls. Also provides strong points to tie off the helm when heaving to.
A pad eye near the companionway that you can hook onto before coming topsides and to stay attached until you are below decks.
Permenmtly attached harnesses at the various work stations (mast, fore deck, etc.) that you can use in addition to your standard harnesss. The length of these permanent harnesses should be sized to limit your movements to the work area only.
It goes without saying that all of the attachment points should be as stong as the jacklines themselves (6,000 lbs.)
Mike Thorpe
s/v Journey's End CD-36 #144
Warren Kaplan wrote: When sailing alone, or in rough weather, or with the autopilot engaged, many sailing safety gurus advise wearing a harness and clipping in to something substantial to keep you aboard....just in case. They suggest this even if you remain in the cockpit. I've got jacklines that will run from the bow down both sides of the deck to the cockpit. I really don't want to bring anymore lines into the cockpit to clutter things up. I have read where some sailors have padeyes strategically located throughout the cockpit to clip in to. Obviously the number of padeyes necessary will depend on the size of the cockpit. I have a CD27 with a tiller. I was thinking of installing a padeye on each side of the cockpit on the vertical wall of both the port and starboard cockpit lockers. I'd put a big backing plate in to spread out the load. I might even put one thru the wall of the stern cockpit locker, the same way, thereby allowing me to place the port and starboard padeyes a little more forward in the cockpit. A couple of questions. First, do you think good, solid padeyes are a good idea over running jacklines into the cockpit? Second, do you think the walls of the cockpit's lockers are strong enough for this purpose if a large backing plate is also installed? Third, are there any drawbacks to doing this? I anxiously solicit your comments or alternatives!
Thanks guys,
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
Cd27 #166 1980
mthorpe@capecod.net
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Richard Feffer
Re: Catherine's boarding ladder
Catherine Monaghan has a boarding ladder attached to her "Realization" which stows in a bag with a line trailing overboard. The line releases the ladder from the bag by a person in the water. I'm not sure, but I believe the ladder must be a web-type which stows in the bag. How 'bout some specifics, Catherine?
RichFef@Prodigy.net
RichFef@Prodigy.net
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Neil Gordon
Re: What an excellent discussion.
>>And even if not on autopilot, you may round up into the wind, but how do you get back on the boat?<<
If you're offshore and/or in light traffic, not being able to get on the boat is a problem. But if the water's warm and someone will either see you or you can wait out a rescue once someone misses you, your odds of being found go up substantially if you remained attached to the boat, even if you're wet.
A fisherman was resued locally after going overboard... we're talking the ocean in New England in January... he didn't have the strength in the cold water to get back on board, but another fisherman (his competition!) noticed the boat drifting strangely and went over to make sure he was okay (which he wasn't!). The same scenario with an autopilot and the guys dies.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
If you're offshore and/or in light traffic, not being able to get on the boat is a problem. But if the water's warm and someone will either see you or you can wait out a rescue once someone misses you, your odds of being found go up substantially if you remained attached to the boat, even if you're wet.
A fisherman was resued locally after going overboard... we're talking the ocean in New England in January... he didn't have the strength in the cold water to get back on board, but another fisherman (his competition!) noticed the boat drifting strangely and went over to make sure he was okay (which he wasn't!). The same scenario with an autopilot and the guys dies.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
cdory28@aol.com
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Leo MacDonald
Re: Cockpit padeyes/Jacklines/Ladder
Warren,
'Heather Ann' (CD30K) has a single stainless padeye with a stainless backing plate on the forward bulkhead of the cockpit footwell aprrox. 2/3 the distance up from the cockpit sole, just to stbd of the mizzen mast. Worked great for crew! However, with the worm gear wheel steering keeping the tether out of the wheel was a pain in the _ _ _ for the helmsman. My plan for 'Evening light will be a padeye next to the companionway close to the centerline and one each in the aft port & stbd corners of the cockpit seat area (with the helm clipping on to the windward padeye.)
I also run flat web jacklines from the bow cleats to the stern cleats - cinched tight.
I saw a CD330 in Mystic a few years ago with jacklines made of vinyl covered wire rope (AKA lifeline material) attached to the cabin sides a few inches above the side deck. They went from a little aft of the after portlight (reachable from the cockpit) to just fwd of the fwd portlight - nice, clean, permanent arrangement.
I ran a 'release line' for my boarding ladder down close to the water, one tug and the ladder pivoted into the lowered position.
With 'Heather Ann' on Lake Ontario I ran an 'Autohelm disengage' experiment. While on a close reach I ran a trip line from the Autohelm pin to a turning block then trailed about 60 ft of poly line (floats). After everything was set up, I simulated falling overboard, tugged on the pin (as if now flopping around and being dragged behind the boat), disconnected the Autohelm and watched the boat . . . . . head up ~10 degrees and . . . . . sail fairly well for approx. 20 minutes and still going. At this point I called the experiment a Failure! Analysis; This worm gear steering holds it's own AND the ketch was too well balanced. (Plan on rerunning this on 'Evening Light' this year, see if quadrant / well steering has a different response.)
Whatever you select for padeyes, use compatible backing plates.
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdoreNOSPAM@aol.com
'Heather Ann' (CD30K) has a single stainless padeye with a stainless backing plate on the forward bulkhead of the cockpit footwell aprrox. 2/3 the distance up from the cockpit sole, just to stbd of the mizzen mast. Worked great for crew! However, with the worm gear wheel steering keeping the tether out of the wheel was a pain in the _ _ _ for the helmsman. My plan for 'Evening light will be a padeye next to the companionway close to the centerline and one each in the aft port & stbd corners of the cockpit seat area (with the helm clipping on to the windward padeye.)
I also run flat web jacklines from the bow cleats to the stern cleats - cinched tight.
I saw a CD330 in Mystic a few years ago with jacklines made of vinyl covered wire rope (AKA lifeline material) attached to the cabin sides a few inches above the side deck. They went from a little aft of the after portlight (reachable from the cockpit) to just fwd of the fwd portlight - nice, clean, permanent arrangement.
I ran a 'release line' for my boarding ladder down close to the water, one tug and the ladder pivoted into the lowered position.
With 'Heather Ann' on Lake Ontario I ran an 'Autohelm disengage' experiment. While on a close reach I ran a trip line from the Autohelm pin to a turning block then trailed about 60 ft of poly line (floats). After everything was set up, I simulated falling overboard, tugged on the pin (as if now flopping around and being dragged behind the boat), disconnected the Autohelm and watched the boat . . . . . head up ~10 degrees and . . . . . sail fairly well for approx. 20 minutes and still going. At this point I called the experiment a Failure! Analysis; This worm gear steering holds it's own AND the ketch was too well balanced. (Plan on rerunning this on 'Evening Light' this year, see if quadrant / well steering has a different response.)
Whatever you select for padeyes, use compatible backing plates.
Fair Winds,
Leo
macdoreNOSPAM@aol.com
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Olli Wendelin
boarding ladder
Bill,
During my last survey the installation of a permanent boarding ladder was listed as a mandatory safety item. I had to install one to stay covered. My ladder is attached to the stern, and can be reached and swung down by someone in the water.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
During my last survey the installation of a permanent boarding ladder was listed as a mandatory safety item. I had to install one to stay covered. My ladder is attached to the stern, and can be reached and swung down by someone in the water.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
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Joe Sankey
Re: boarding ladder
Olli, Our 30 did not come with an attached boarding ladder, and we plan to install one. In the past I've had stern mounted ladders and a removeable ladder leading to the boarding gate. TopsinQuality recommends the midship ladder for boarding in rough seas. Even though we don't plan much other than coastwise and bay cruising and daysailing, the added advantage of the boarding gate (our stern rail is not divided), both for dinghy and swimming use, makes this an attractive way to do things. Is the stern location one recommended as mandatory, or is that a choice you made?
sankey@gulftel.com
Olli Wendelin wrote: Bill,
During my last survey the installation of a permanent boarding ladder was listed as a mandatory safety item. I had to install one to stay covered. My ladder is attached to the stern, and can be reached and swung down by someone in the water.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
sankey@gulftel.com
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Larry M
Re: boarding ladders
Sounds like Catherine has the one made by mast mate. This can be easily duplicated by buying a climbing ladder (web ladders called etrier's) for $29 from REI. I had a canvas shop make me a small bag that had velcro on side and bottom and grommets on the two other sides for attachments to the stern pulpit. The etrier has a line that trails just in the water where you could pull the etrier down. The etrier is attached to the pulpit thought its loop. I think the bag cost about $30 which all said was quite a bit cheaper than the mast mate folks and more importantly to me I could choose the color of the bag. I think there is a picture of the sterm of our boat on Pat and Nancy Turners web page he linked on the board.
Larry CD 33 dolce
Larry CD 33 dolce
Richard Feffer wrote: Catherine Monaghan has a boarding ladder attached to her "Realization" which stows in a bag with a line trailing overboard. The line releases the ladder from the bag by a person in the water. I'm not sure, but I believe the ladder must be a web-type which stows in the bag. How 'bout some specifics, Catherine?
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Olli Wendelin
Re: boarding ladder
Joe,
I chose a stern mounted ladder because it was the easiest to mount and pull down. Also if I was trolling myself from a jack line I would be swung aft and maybe (??) could reach the ladder. My stern rail is also not split. It helps to be a gymnist to climb the ladder and clear the rail, mizzen boom, and vents, and gently roll onto the wheelhouse and spiked wheel. Still, its easier than when we just hung a rope with a loop over the side.
A teak & bronze boarding ladder mounted amidships (removable) at the boarding gate is on my wish list. Amidships is much better for boarding than the stern due to ships motion and a clearer deck. I have looked at the folding stainless ladders that store at the boarding gate. They are expensive and seem permanent. Also I would need another boarding gate on the port side. One side for swimmers and the other for the dinghy.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
I chose a stern mounted ladder because it was the easiest to mount and pull down. Also if I was trolling myself from a jack line I would be swung aft and maybe (??) could reach the ladder. My stern rail is also not split. It helps to be a gymnist to climb the ladder and clear the rail, mizzen boom, and vents, and gently roll onto the wheelhouse and spiked wheel. Still, its easier than when we just hung a rope with a loop over the side.
A teak & bronze boarding ladder mounted amidships (removable) at the boarding gate is on my wish list. Amidships is much better for boarding than the stern due to ships motion and a clearer deck. I have looked at the folding stainless ladders that store at the boarding gate. They are expensive and seem permanent. Also I would need another boarding gate on the port side. One side for swimmers and the other for the dinghy.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
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Joe Sankey
Re: boarding ladder
Olli,Olli Wendelin wrote: Joe,
I chose a stern mounted ladder because it was the easiest to mount and pull down. Also if I was trolling myself from a jack line I would be swung aft and maybe (??) could reach the ladder. My stern rail is also not split. It helps to be a gymnist to climb the ladder and clear the rail, mizzen boom, and vents, and gently roll onto the wheelhouse and spiked wheel. Still, its easier than when we just hung a rope with a loop over the side.
Yes, they are pricey, but they are also removeable, as the mounts attach to the genoa track, and the ladder attaches with pins. That said, which ladder did you choose, and from whom did you get it?
Olli Wendelin wrote: A teak & bronze boarding ladder mounted amidships (removable) at the boarding gate is on my wish list. Amidships is much better for boarding than the stern due to ships motion and a clearer deck. I have looked at the folding stainless ladders that store at the boarding gate. They are expensive and seem permanent. Also I would need another boarding gate on the port side. One side for swimmers and the other for the dinghy.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
sankey@gulftel.com
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Olli Wendelin
Re: boarding ladder
Joe,
My stern mounted ladder is 36" long, has 4 steps and made of 1" stainless tubing. It is from West Marine, Model 115550, $149.99. I do plan to add wooden steps to it this summer. The 1" tubing hurts your feet.
ABI Marine sells a bronze Boarding Ladder Hardware set for making a teak ladder. See the link below, or http://z16.zland.com/ps/ABIndustries/Customer.nsf. Plans for making a ladder are shown in FINELY FITTED YACHT VOL I&II by Ferenc Mate. This project should cost ~ $100.00 total.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil
My stern mounted ladder is 36" long, has 4 steps and made of 1" stainless tubing. It is from West Marine, Model 115550, $149.99. I do plan to add wooden steps to it this summer. The 1" tubing hurts your feet.
ABI Marine sells a bronze Boarding Ladder Hardware set for making a teak ladder. See the link below, or http://z16.zland.com/ps/ABIndustries/Customer.nsf. Plans for making a ladder are shown in FINELY FITTED YACHT VOL I&II by Ferenc Mate. This project should cost ~ $100.00 total.
Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC
wendelin@spawar.navy.mil