Cape Dory 22 Questions

Sea Hunt · Post by **Sea Hunt** » Mar 23rd, '07, 21:44

I am considering making an offer on a Cape Dory 22 sailboat. I have a couple of questions about the boat. I have researched the archives but could not find any posts addressing these issues, although I am sure they exist.

This CD 22 seems to be in overall good condition although I will probably commission a marine survey if we come to an agreement on price - unfortunately, a big “IF”.

First, when I inspected her, I noticed that the metal rudder post/rod that goes through the cockpit deck and attaches to the rudder could be lifted up from the deck/wood rudder plate about 2", perhaps a little less than 2". Somewhere on this board I think I learned to check this on any sailboat - but, with fading memory, today I cannot recall WHY I should check this and I could not find the discussion in archives although I know it is there somewhere. I seem to recall that too much “up and down” play was a bad thing. Any thoughts on this issue

Second, there is a Bimini top with this CD 22. However, unlike most Biminis where the support rods are affixed to the deck with thru bolts and backing plates (at least that is how I have always seen them), on this CD 22 the aft support rods (port and starboard) are screwed into the top of the teak coaming (the narrow 3/4" top

). This seems very unusual. Before transporting this CD on its trailer I would completely remove the support rods, Bimini, etc. My question is, how difficult is it to plug the holes created by the screws that I would remove

Has this damaged the teak

The teak coamings themselves seem to be in good condition. I am frankly surprised that the teak coaming has not snapped off where the rods are attached. There is no bracing on the sides at all. There is a small plate with a swivel pin affixed to the bottom of each rod with two screws in each plate that go into the top of the teak coaming but no lateral support on either side.

Third, this CD 22 has a 5-HP four stroke Honda O/B. I like this size. It is just right for Biscayne Bay. The O/B motor bracket is in the middle of the transom (amidships?). At present, there is no boarding ladder. I am not sure a fixed stainless steel ladder can be added to either side of the transom because I am not sure there is enough room. I have looked at the one made by Mystic Stainless http://www.mysticstainless.com/page2.html but I am not sure if that is suitable for a small sailboat. The website says it is 15" wide. Does anyone know if this is enough room for a sturdy boarding ladder that can support 205 lbs. of a soaking wet tadpole sailor

If not, given the size of the CD 22, can a boarding ladder like the Mystic Stainless be affixed to the gunwales

Sal Randazzo posted a similar question several months ago about a boarding ladder for a CD 22 but did not get any feedback that I could find.

I know this is a long post. I sincerely apologize.

In advance, I want to thank anyone and everyone who offers any suggestions, comments, etc. This seems like the Cape Dory I am looking for as my first sailboat. Assuming there are no issues with the results of a marine survey, it looks like the only impediment will be coming to an agreement on price. The owner is, understandably, not very motivated to sell but is willing to consider an offer.

Fair Winds,

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Mar 23rd, '07, 23:29

Robert,

I'm not sure what setup you have on a CD 22 rudder post. On most of the smaller CDs, the lower end of the rudder post sits in a cup which is attached to the aft end of the false keel.

If the tiller/upper end of the rudder post is raised, the bottom of the post can jump out of the cup. Since the rudder post is set at an angle, if the raised post pops out of the support socket, the angled post will act as a pendulum and swing aft. Because of the pendulum effect and the leverage of the post under the stern, there is no way that the post can be inserted back into the cup from above. This can be of great concern if under way while sailing.

I think that cheek blocks should be added to the coamings where the Bimini support rods are attached in order to widen and strengthen the support purchase.

There are many ways to fill unused screw holes in wood. A method which I use quite often is to drill out the screw hole with a 1/4" bit. I then apply waterproof glue to 1/4" tapered plugs of the same type wood. (ie, teak or mahogany). I personally like to have the grain of the plug run in the same direction as the grain of the wood being plugged. I set the plugs using a pair of tweezers or small pliers to align the grain. Then lightly tap downward on the plug until bottomed out. After the glue has set, I remove any surplus plug above the coaming and sand smooth and finish.

I use a boarding ladder that hooks onto either side of my coamings. It is aluminum and has standoffs to keep it vertical. It's quite old and I don't remember who the manufacturer is. I am very satisfied with it.

Good luck,
O J

bill2 · Post by **bill2** » Mar 24th, '07, 00:04

Sea Hunt

What OJ said . . .

Good Luck ( from the former owner of a cd22 )

Sea Hunt · Post by **Sea Hunt** » Mar 24th, '07, 08:01

Hello OJ:

Thank you very much for the information.

Maybe I am using the wrong nautical terms. With respect to the tiller, when I sat in the cockpit of the CD22, I tried to briefly lift the tiller up (actually sort of at a angle) from the deck. I did this from the aft end of the tiller right at the "tiller bracket" (I am sure there is a correct nautical term for this). The bracket part of the tiller that goes over the rod/post coming up from deck moved up and down about 2", but only two inches. Is this 2" of "play" something to be concerned about

Most of the CDs I have looked at have had a little play. This seemed to be a little more than the others. Perhaps I am just being overly concerned about something that is really no big deal.

I am assuming your suggestion about cheek blocks was based on the idea that I would want to reattach the Bimini top after transport to Miami. IF I become the owner, I would not want the Bimini rods to be attached to the coamings at all. Too much risk of snapping off a chunk of teak if one accidentally falls against the support rod. I am no longer the nimble halfback I used to be.

I thought "cheek blocks" were regular blocks that had a metal plate on the side to attach to something, for example, the aft end of the boom to use the block for the outhaul. What is the reason for attaching cheek blocks to the teak coamings where there are no lines or running rigging

If I wanted to keep the Bimini top attached to the teak coamings, would it not be better to buy/make four (4) stainless steel plates (2 for each coaming) about 2" x 4" and thru bolt them into the coaming

OJ, as you may now recall from my prior posts and your patient responses, "I am not the brightest bulb on the Christmas tree" (quoted by "The Admiral" at least weekly).

Thanks again for all of your help and patience.

Fair Winds,

wingreen · Post by **wingreen** » Mar 24th, '07, 08:21

Robert, if I understand you correctly, you are talking about a bushing at the top of the rudder-tiller assembly, and not the rudder axle itself.

If that's the worst problem you can find on this boat, then you should definitely go for it.

seadawg · Post by **seadawg** » Mar 24th, '07, 09:19

2" sounds like a little much. I have a 22d in my back yard and I went out to check. Lifting at the shaft I have exactly 1/2 " of up/down travel or play in the rudder shaft. I don't think it would kill your deal but I would want to know why all the slop. Is the boat in the water? The actual rudder itself limits the up travel and the rudder heel sits in the bearing at the bottom. Charlie.

Mike Wainfeld · Post by **Mike Wainfeld** » Mar 24th, '07, 09:30

Sea Hunt-Buy the friggin' boat already!!!!!! And, please, I am saying this with friendship and support. The 22 is a real nice boat. I wish I had one. You will not regret buying a CD22.
Mike W
CD Ty Regalo

Sea Hunt · Post by **Sea Hunt** » Mar 24th, '07, 15:09

Hello Mike:

You are absolutely correct. I bother this board too much with what are in most everyone's minds, I am sure, small details. Unfortunately, because I know so little about sailboats, what is in fact a "small detail" seems like a big deal to me.

I will try to be more judicious in my questions and not ask so many. I will particularly try to avoid asking the really dumb questions

I looked at your website. You have a beautiful Ty Weekender. Congratulations

If I am ever able to acquire a Cape Dory and if your plans allow for a South Florida trip, it would be my pleasure to go sailing with you in my Cape Dory.

Fair Winds,

Neil Gordon · Post by **Neil Gordon** » Mar 24th, '07, 18:26

Sea Hunt wrote:I will try to be more judicious in my questions and not ask so many. I will particularly try to avoid asking the really dumb questions

Unfortunately, you have no way of knowing which are the dumb ones until it's too late. Better to refer to them as "inexperienced" questions and ask away. But as Mike says, if you find a boat you really like, don't be afraid to buy it!!! (But get a survey.)

Sea Hunt · Post by **Sea Hunt** » Mar 24th, '07, 19:40

Neil:

I must respectfully disagree. 95% of my questions are easily and readily categorized as "dumb questions". You need only ask "The Admiral" for confirmation of this.

Gary M · Post by **Gary M** » Mar 24th, '07, 20:31

Sea Hunt,

I too checked the play in the rudder post on every boat I looked at. I looked for both up and down play and for side to side play.

I think 2 inches of travel would really concern me as it does you.

This should not be thought of as a deal breaker but a negotiating point.

Your surveyor may tell you what is needed to solve the problem ask him for his thoughts on the subject before you hire him to survey the boat. Just see if what he says makes sense to you.

If you haul the boat at a yard you can also ask the yard manager for a quote to fix the problem and what he would do about it.

It sounds like you found yourself a nice CD22. What is the year and hull number.

By the way, IMHO the CD22 is one great boat.

Good Luck, I know you've spent a lot of time trying to find a CD. I'm anxious to find out what happens.

Gary M

Mike Wainfeld · Post by **Mike Wainfeld** » Mar 24th, '07, 20:56

Sea Hunt-Not at all, you are NOT bothering the board, and any question you ask DOES add to our body of knowledge. And when you get that boat, you'll have a lot of fun sailing!
MikeW
CD Ty Regalo

Zeida · Post by **Zeida** » Mar 24th, '07, 22:34

Sea Hunt, if you end up as the new owner of that CD22, bring it to Hurricane Cove Boatyard at the Miami River. There you will be able to start getting her ready. Don't buy things like ladders, etc. until after she is yours and at the yard; people there with plenty of CD experience will be able to help you put her together the way you want.

Oswego John · Post by **Oswego John** » Mar 25th, '07, 01:06

Oswego John wrote:
I think that cheek blocks should be added to the coamings where the Bimini support rods are attached in order to widen and strengthen the support purchase.

O J

Sea Hunt,

I guess that I owe you some sort of an apology. You are quite right in asking why I would suggest your installation of "cheek blocks" on your coamings at the points where the bimini supports attach. You are, also, quite correct in your description of what a cheek block is.

Could I be allowed to plead a case of confused semantics? I wasn't thinking 100% when I responded to your inquiry. Let me try to provide an alibi for my statement.

When working with wood and you want to strengthen or reinforce an existing structure, often you will scab, "cheek", or sister another "block" of similar wood to it. That's what I had in mind when I mentioned cheek blocks for the coamings. Cheek blocks are like battens fastened across the grain to provide additional strength.

In the future, I better pay more attention to my choice of words. Sorry about that.

O J

Mark Yashinsky · Post by **Mark Yashinsky** » Mar 25th, '07, 06:22

And to make questions and answers more clear, can pictures be posted? Check the archives where Cathy and others have explained the details of how to. "Pictures are worth a thousand words."

As for the boat, is it the 1982 CD22 you mentioned in http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=20518?

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