Groco head Model HF

[Roy J.]

Randy,

I did everything everyone else did, then called Groco. A very helpful fellow told me exactly what to do: open the rectangular housing that the bronze handle goes into that switches from "flush" to "flush dry". You will see a spring that fits around a raised fitting on the silicone rubber flapper and pushes against the side of the housing to keep the flap either closed or open, I don't remember which. The spring slips off the flap, or may be "sprung" in which case you need a new spring, but certainly not an entire rebuild kit. Basically what is happening is that flap is falling to the default position, flush dry, because the spring is not pushing the flap properly. My overall experience with fixing heads is don't take anything apart that is already working -- you are just asking to cause leakage where there wasn't any previously. This lesson was hardwon by rebuilding the entire head twice, to fix the problem caused by the little spring and its co-conspiritor silicon rubber flap. PM me if this isn't clear. Hamilton Marine in Maine (www.hamiltonmarine.com) has a good selection of Groco replacement parts. You have to call them, you won't find the full selection on the website. I called the Searsport store and got exactly what I needed.

Good luck.

[rtbates]

Randy,

I did everything everyone else did, then called Groco. A very helpful fellow told me exactly what to do: open the rectangular housing that the bronze handle goes into that switches from "flush" to "flush dry". You will see a spring that fits around a raised fitting on the silicone rubber flapper and pushes against the side of the housing to keep the flap either closed or open, I don't remember which. The spring slips off the flap, or may be "sprung" in which case you need a new spring, but certainly not an entire rebuild kit. Basically what is happening is that flap is falling to the default position, flush dry, because the spring is not pushing the flap properly. My overall experience with fixing heads is don't take anything apart that is already working -- you are just asking to cause leakage where there wasn't any previously. This lesson was hardwon by rebuilding the entire head twice, to fix the problem caused by the little spring and its co-conspiritor silicon rubber flap. PM me if this isn't clear. Hamilton Marine in Maine (www.hamiltonmarine.com) has a good selection of Groco replacement parts. You have to call them, you won't find the full selection on the website. I called the Searsport store and got exactly what I needed.

Good luck.

Roy:
Thank you, thank you

That's the exact information I was looking for. I looked at the exploded drawing trying to determine how that sucker works with little clue. Now I know what's suppose to make this thing suck water. And I'm 100% in agreement about not fixing what ain't broke. I'll probably get the rebuild kit in case I need that later, but for now I only want to fix what's broke.

The folks on this board are great!

[M. R. Bober]

FWIW:

This--unfortunately--is an area in which I have significant experience. CD could have done better. That being said, buy a new GROCO rather than the "master repair" kit. There isn't much difference in cost.

I was surprised to find that the bolt pattern for the new HF was slightly off of the old.

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Annapolis (where you are never as alone as when your head fails),MD

[rtbates]

FWIW:

This--unfortunately--is an area in which I have significant experience. CD could have done better. That being said, buy a new GROCO rather than the "master repair" kit. There isn't much difference in cost.

I was surprised to find that the bolt pattern for the new HF was slightly off of the old.

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Annapolis (where you are never as alone as when your head fails),MD

Mitchell:

I DID buy a new Groco Model HF just after I bought Seraph. The darn thing isn't but maybe 41/2-5 years old.

[M. R. Bober]

ARIEL (CD330) dumped the GROCO in favor a Jabsco (I think) for similiar reasons.

Mitchell Bober
Sunny Annapolis (where we keep our "sailin' water" fresh, under the ice), MD

[Pete]

I suggest you use a pure Silicone grease coating. I use: DOW Corning 111 Silicone Grease. There are many other brands, but the advantage you get is high temp adhesion (so you can use it to lubricate your impeller!) It pays to cover your gaskets (or anything with rubber in it) with lots of Silicone.

When you rebuild (if you rebuild) you head assembly, make sure you cover every part with the Silicone. I rebuilt (I did had help from a Fleet Captain), my head with a repair kit two years ago. Each part was put back into the pump with a generous coating of Silicone. The head pump continues to work like a charm!

[FWIW] I would shy away from OILs being dumped in the head, it will create real mess in the holding tank. If you dig in to past posts about "holding tank treatments", you will find that a well vented holding tank and the natural process of all the tiny-creatures we can't see--work better when they can get to air. An oil film on top of your holding tank--might make things worse.

Enjoy, Pete

[rtbates]

I suggest you use a pure Silicone grease coating. I use: DOW Corning 111 Silicone Grease. There are many other brands, but the advantage you get is high temp adhesion (so you can use it to lubricate your impeller!) It pays to cover your gaskets (or anything with rubber in it) with lots of Silicone.

When you rebuild (if you rebuild) you head assembly, make sure you cover every part with the Silicone. I rebuilt (I did had help from a Fleet Captain), my head with a repair kit two years ago. Each part was put back into the pump with a generous coating of Silicone. The head pump continues to work like a charm!

[FWIW] I would shy away from OILs being dumped in the head, it will create real mess in the holding tank. If you dig in to past posts about "holding tank treatments", you will find that a well vented holding tank and the natural process of all the tiny-creatures we can't see--work better when they can get to air. An oil film on top of your holding tank--might make things worse.

Enjoy, Pete

Hey Pete:

I'll be applying silicon grease on all the rubber parts as I disassemble/reassemble. It sure is better than oil in the holding tank, I agree. I use silicon grease on all the other rubber parts around the boats, especially the port gaskets with great results.

thanks

[ray b]

replace with a bucket

a bucket never sank a ship
and has saved many

that cannot be said about a head

[rtbates]

replace with a bucket

a bucket never sank a ship
and has saved many

that cannot be said about a head

IF I didn't sail on an inland lake I would be leaning toward the bucket myself. The other obstacle is my sailing partner/wife. The head must stay and it must be fixed.

[J D]

Mine would flush but not suck water in but it had a grouth of weed over the inlet of the seacock that kept it from pumping in sea water. It cleaned up easly and is with in arms reach on my 27. I'm sure you checked this but I was about to take mine apart before I did.

[rtbates]

Mine would flush but not suck water in but it had a grouth of weed over the inlet of the seacock that kept it from pumping in sea water. It cleaned up easly and is with in arms reach on my 27. I'm sure you checked this but I was about to take mine apart before I did.

If the water wasn't so cold I'd have jumped in and taken a look. As it is, I'll check the flow out of the intake hose from inside, if I end up needing to rebuild, as I'll be pulling that hose anyway to get the pump assembly off.

thanks for the tip

[jambalaya]

I thought it might be helpful to add my experience to that already recounted. I replaced the pump on my Groco HF about a year ago. New pump costs about $200. After six months it would not pump seawater into the toilet bow, althoug it did pump out if you added water. So I replaced that one with another new one. Anothter $200. The new one has been installed about two weeks. After reading this string, I'm not too optimistic about this one lasting much longer.
One of the problems of going to another manufacturer is that I need the small profile head like the Groco HF. I have the "B" plan with the head where the V berth is located in most other boats. 'There are two wet lockers right behind the head and any toilet which has a higher profile would prevent opening the wet lockers.
Does anyone know of another brand of head with same low profile.?
Will
Jambalaya
CD30

[Trawler Joe]

An easy way to check the intake is to remove the intake hose from the seacock and stick it in a bucket of water, then try flushing.

I replaced my Groco recently. After comparing the cost of rebuild kit and new head, new head seemed like the better way to go. New bolt pattern pissed me off a little, but at least the new base is much more solid.