I've been thinking, after reading the thousands of posts on John's prop controversy!
After searching our archives, I found only a few references to an electric boat conversion. The last around 2003.
Has anyone thought about the current state of converting their diesel powerplant to an electric drive for their boat?
Who has the latest handle on the technology? Any CD owner trying it?
I wouldn't mind having a silent power plant that recharges its juice from sailing.
Rit
Electric Boat
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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s.v. LaVida
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- Location: LaVida is a Cape Dory 33, Hull#40 Homeport of Olcott,NY
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Joe Myerson
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 11:22
- Location: s/v Creme Brulee, CD 25D, Hull #80, Squeteague Harbor, MA
"Green" catamarans
Rit:
The current issue of Cruising World has an article about the FastCat 435 Vector K, a South African-built cruising catamaran that is entirely powered by what the manufacturer calls a "hybrid" system. There's also the Lagoon 402 Hybrid, another so-called hybrid electric catamaran.
In both cases, the props turn while cruising under sail to charge the batteries that drive the engines when going under power.
These aren't monohulls, and they're certainly not cheap (what boat advertised in CW is?), but they do show that the technology has progressed quite a ways since the 2003 threads on this board.
I'm sure others will know more about what's out there--even, perhaps, some systems that would interest CDers.
--Joe
The current issue of Cruising World has an article about the FastCat 435 Vector K, a South African-built cruising catamaran that is entirely powered by what the manufacturer calls a "hybrid" system. There's also the Lagoon 402 Hybrid, another so-called hybrid electric catamaran.
In both cases, the props turn while cruising under sail to charge the batteries that drive the engines when going under power.
These aren't monohulls, and they're certainly not cheap (what boat advertised in CW is?), but they do show that the technology has progressed quite a ways since the 2003 threads on this board.
I'm sure others will know more about what's out there--even, perhaps, some systems that would interest CDers.
--Joe
Former Commodore, CDSOA
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
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Mark Yashinsky
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 15:24
- Location: 1980 CD27, #173
Second Chance
Electricy source
for at least the Lagoon, is not only the batteries. There is a genset involved. Once the batteries get down to the 80% capacity level, the genset will kick to supply all electric needs (including the drive motors) and recharge the batteries. Also, per motor, there is a six battery bank of batteries to house and maintain (along w/ the genset)
Hopefully, not to start another long thread, but what is the recharge efficiency of regenerative sailing (recharging while sailing)? How long will one have to sail in, say a 10kt wind, to recover the energy used to motor in and out of a marina, say 20 mins, averaging 50% maximun motor draw?
Hopefully, not to start another long thread, but what is the recharge efficiency of regenerative sailing (recharging while sailing)? How long will one have to sail in, say a 10kt wind, to recover the energy used to motor in and out of a marina, say 20 mins, averaging 50% maximun motor draw?
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Steve Laume
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I don't think the technology is anywhere near being practical yet. I had a discussion about this same concept with a friend just last weekend. The problem with trying to develop this is that there is a very limited market. Not enough money in it. It has taken the auto industry a long time and that market is huge. The motoring vs recharge time is a bit deceiving. When you use your auxiliary to motor in and out of the slip or off of the mooring you run the engine much longer than you need power. You typically start the engine, let it warm up, back out, drift, give some foreword power, drift, power out let it idle a bit then shut her down. With an electrically powered prop you would only use electrical power when the prop is being turned. No warm up, no cool down. It could also make you look very good if you were to miss a tack. Just a little bust of power with no engine to start. The best use would be to sneak up and pass that other guy, who is also not racing. He would be looking hard for some exhaust water as he could not believe you were out sailing him the way you were. The proper response on your part would be to smile, wave and comment on what a beautiful sailing day it was, Steve.
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Mark Yashinsky
- Posts: 258
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 15:24
- Location: 1980 CD27, #173
Second Chance
As for "green" boats,
what defines a GREEN boat?
Was reading an article in a homebuilder's magazine, "What does GREEN really mean" and they used OSB (oriented strand board) as an example. One would think that OSB is very green, as it can use most any size of wood, but it was brought up about energy used to produce OSB (presses and heat) and the additional materials that go into it (resins (the glue), waxes, etc). The resins are also a question after construction (VOC's release into the structure) and even later on during demolition/deconstruction, because of the resins, it is difficult and energy expensive to reuse/recycle the OSB (landfill?).
So by going electric, you still need an engine, but you add a lot of batteries that need to be changed on some sort of cycle (energy used and waste materials from recycling these batteries).
Most of us use small diesel engines, which are probably not much different in size from the required genset, so fuel use would not really change, just maybe in the area of exhaust, as current technology has cleaned up diesel exhaust.
Was reading an article in a homebuilder's magazine, "What does GREEN really mean" and they used OSB (oriented strand board) as an example. One would think that OSB is very green, as it can use most any size of wood, but it was brought up about energy used to produce OSB (presses and heat) and the additional materials that go into it (resins (the glue), waxes, etc). The resins are also a question after construction (VOC's release into the structure) and even later on during demolition/deconstruction, because of the resins, it is difficult and energy expensive to reuse/recycle the OSB (landfill?).
So by going electric, you still need an engine, but you add a lot of batteries that need to be changed on some sort of cycle (energy used and waste materials from recycling these batteries).
Most of us use small diesel engines, which are probably not much different in size from the required genset, so fuel use would not really change, just maybe in the area of exhaust, as current technology has cleaned up diesel exhaust.
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Oswego John
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- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Electric Boats
Who knows? Maybe someday they'll bring back the Wankel engine.
O J
O J
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Dick Barthel
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Re: Electric Boats
OJ, as I recall GM bought that engine and buried it.Oswego John wrote:Who knows? Maybe someday they'll bring back the Wankel engine.
O J
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Oswego John
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- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Ja Vohl, Der Vankel
Yes, it was a sweet little engine. It had a few flaws that were being worked out. If I remember correctly, Mazda was the last auto to use them. They more than proved themselves in the RX 7 sports model. Some of the rotary engines were used in the Mazda RX 8 sports series in 2006.
IMHO, given a little more time, it showed lots of promise. Like the Tucker, it probably was a threat to someone or something. As my patron saint Archie used to say, whatever.
C'est la vie,
O J
IMHO, given a little more time, it showed lots of promise. Like the Tucker, it probably was a threat to someone or something. As my patron saint Archie used to say, whatever.
C'est la vie,
O J
Archie?
As in "archy and mehitabel"?
Nice choice of patron saint, OJ.
Judith
Nice choice of patron saint, OJ.
Judith
To unpathed waters, undreamed shores.
The Winter’s Tale. Act iv. Sc. 4.
The Winter’s Tale. Act iv. Sc. 4.
No,
as in Archie and Meathead.
Sail on,
Jack
CD28 Sea Belle
Hailport - Rockland, ME
There are old sailors and bold sailors, but there are no old, bold sailors.
Reef early and often. It's easier to shake out a reef when one is bored than it is to tuck one in when one is scared.
When your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails.
Jack
CD28 Sea Belle
Hailport - Rockland, ME
There are old sailors and bold sailors, but there are no old, bold sailors.
Reef early and often. It's easier to shake out a reef when one is bored than it is to tuck one in when one is scared.
When your only tool is a hammer, all your problems look like nails.
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Mike Pinto
- Posts: 17
- Joined: Jul 13th, '05, 05:30
- Location: Typhoon weekender,"NIPPER", Ocean City NJ
Electric boat
Just got home today 1/25/07 from sailing an eletric Lagoon 440 from Cape May nj to Bermuda Then Bermuda to Abacos Bahamas!! I could probably answer any questions you may have about the system. Solomen Technology put this one together and it was hull #1 of it"s kind. 144 volt system ( 12 12volt batteries) being recharged by a Fischer Panda generator while motoring. Left Bermuda with 35-40 knot NE breeze and sailed 4 1/2 days never had to turn the generator on to charge up batteries. Quiet, reliable, efficient, what a great delivery!!! Boat is available for chartering this winter in the hopetown Abacos bahamas Mike
Re: No,
Got it. Thanks, JackSeaBelle wrote:as in Archie and Meathead.
To unpathed waters, undreamed shores.
The Winter’s Tale. Act iv. Sc. 4.
The Winter’s Tale. Act iv. Sc. 4.
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Joe Myerson
- Posts: 2216
- Joined: Feb 6th, '05, 11:22
- Location: s/v Creme Brulee, CD 25D, Hull #80, Squeteague Harbor, MA
Thanks Mike
Mike,
Thanks for the live report about the Lagoon.
It sounds promising, although I suspect it would work better at catamaran speeds than at monohull speed.
And OJ, I'm not sure the Wankel ever lived up to its potential.
I once owned a rotary-engine-powered Mazda pickup truck. It accellerated like a rocketship, but also burned lots of gas and almost as much oil.
Still, any engine that only has a handful of moving parts has got to be a good idea.
--Joe
Thanks for the live report about the Lagoon.
It sounds promising, although I suspect it would work better at catamaran speeds than at monohull speed.
And OJ, I'm not sure the Wankel ever lived up to its potential.
I once owned a rotary-engine-powered Mazda pickup truck. It accellerated like a rocketship, but also burned lots of gas and almost as much oil.
Still, any engine that only has a handful of moving parts has got to be a good idea.
--Joe
Former Commodore, CDSOA
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
Former Captain, Northeast Fleet
S/V Crème Brûlée, CD 25D, Hull # 80
"What a greate matter it is to saile a shyppe or goe to sea."
--Capt. John Smith, 1627
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Demise Of The Wankel
Hi Joe,
Yes, you are correct. The earlier versions did have some problems. And the timing of their introduction was terrible, just before a gas crisis hit the country.
Fortunately, most of the earlier problems have been worked out. If you want, there is a very good description of the Wankel with an animated picture at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine
Also, scroll down to "Solutions To Past Problems" and
"Fuel Consumption And Hydrocarbon Emissions"
Hopefully, the stigma will be forgotten.
O J
Yes, you are correct. The earlier versions did have some problems. And the timing of their introduction was terrible, just before a gas crisis hit the country.
Fortunately, most of the earlier problems have been worked out. If you want, there is a very good description of the Wankel with an animated picture at:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wankel_engine
Also, scroll down to "Solutions To Past Problems" and
"Fuel Consumption And Hydrocarbon Emissions"
Hopefully, the stigma will be forgotten.
O J
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Derek Matheson
- Posts: 52
- Joined: Sep 21st, '06, 08:07
- Location: 1981 CD28 #282 Gaelic Gal
Diesel Wankel
I ran a 1993 RX-7 for a few years. It had a 255 hp dual rotor Wankel, an aluminum body, and would do 0-60 in 4.9 seconds.
Check out this company in Maryland called Patrick Power, that is making diesel Wankel engines.
http://www.patpower.com/technology/index.htm
The rumor is that they own the old Norton motorcycle Wankel engine designs and have converted these to run on diesel fuel. They plan to make small, light, powerful, and efficient gensets.
Check out this company in Maryland called Patrick Power, that is making diesel Wankel engines.
http://www.patpower.com/technology/index.htm
The rumor is that they own the old Norton motorcycle Wankel engine designs and have converted these to run on diesel fuel. They plan to make small, light, powerful, and efficient gensets.