I'm considering addding an autopilot to a 1984 CD-30 w/ Edson wheel. Suggestions and experience on models and installation would be appreciated.
Hank
hbraly@aol.com
CD-30 autopilot ?
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: CD-30 autopilot ?
Hank,
Yes definately, the autoHelm ST4000 is the way to go. I'm going to install one on Hanalei next season. It is a very neat, compact installation. I'm thinking of mounting the control panel just forward of the engine control panel in the cockpit.
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei, CD-30
Yes definately, the autoHelm ST4000 is the way to go. I'm going to install one on Hanalei next season. It is a very neat, compact installation. I'm thinking of mounting the control panel just forward of the engine control panel in the cockpit.
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei, CD-30
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Larry DeMers
Re: CD-30 autopilot ?
Dave,
I would not mount that control box on hte side, in front of the engine controls. That box has a fluxgate compass in it, which counts on the face of the box pointing towards the bow or stern, and as close to the centerline as possible. This minimizes the movement of the gymbal that the fluxgate is held in, and allows for a more accurate and smoother response.
The side-mount would have been the worst possible location for the compass. But you would have discovered this as you went through the instructions for mounting. I thought I would save you the time and allow planning to put it athwartship instead.
Regards,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior
demers@sgi.com
I would not mount that control box on hte side, in front of the engine controls. That box has a fluxgate compass in it, which counts on the face of the box pointing towards the bow or stern, and as close to the centerline as possible. This minimizes the movement of the gymbal that the fluxgate is held in, and allows for a more accurate and smoother response.
The side-mount would have been the worst possible location for the compass. But you would have discovered this as you went through the instructions for mounting. I thought I would save you the time and allow planning to put it athwartship instead.
Regards,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 Sailing Lake Superior
Hank,
Yes definately, the autoHelm ST4000 is the way to go. I'm going to install one on Hanalei next season. It is a very neat, compact installation. I'm thinking of mounting the control panel just forward of the engine control panel in the cockpit.
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei, CD-30
demers@sgi.com
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D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: CD-30 autopilot ?
Larry,
The only reason I was planning on placing it there is that another sailboat next to mine has the control panel mounted there. I helped the skipper lock in the variation on his first startup, and it worked just fine. He had a professional install it for him, and no one ever mentioned a problem. I haven't yet purchased the unit, but will be sure to follow the instructions when I do get it. Thanks for the warning! Hey, how has the sailing been up there on Superior? The weekends here in Connecticut have been hot, humid, dry and windless. This past Saturday the temp. was in the mid to high 70's with 15-20 knot winds. The best weekend in quite a while! Fair winds and following seas....
Dave Stump
Captain commanding
s/v Hanalei, CD-30
The only reason I was planning on placing it there is that another sailboat next to mine has the control panel mounted there. I helped the skipper lock in the variation on his first startup, and it worked just fine. He had a professional install it for him, and no one ever mentioned a problem. I haven't yet purchased the unit, but will be sure to follow the instructions when I do get it. Thanks for the warning! Hey, how has the sailing been up there on Superior? The weekends here in Connecticut have been hot, humid, dry and windless. This past Saturday the temp. was in the mid to high 70's with 15-20 knot winds. The best weekend in quite a while! Fair winds and following seas....
Dave Stump
Captain commanding
s/v Hanalei, CD-30
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Tad McDonald
HUH?!?! Re: CD-30 autopilot ?
Huh? The mounting of the control panel/display doesn't have anything to do with the fluxgate compass (at least as far as my ST4000 is concerned). The compass is mounted low, near the centerline and away from large metal objects (i.e., engines). The orientation of the control panel/display is totally inconsequential. Or am I missing the point here?
I have had my display mounted on the port bulkhead of the cockpit about 4 inches off the cockpit sole. The fluxgate is mounted underneath the sink in the head (Cape Dory 30) on the starboard side.
(BTW, a former acquaintance of mine told me that while he was the Technical Editor of Cruising World magazine they did a survey to determine what piece of gear sailors most appreciated. Hands down, the answer was an autopilot.)
tadmcdonald@worldnet.att.net
I have had my display mounted on the port bulkhead of the cockpit about 4 inches off the cockpit sole. The fluxgate is mounted underneath the sink in the head (Cape Dory 30) on the starboard side.
(BTW, a former acquaintance of mine told me that while he was the Technical Editor of Cruising World magazine they did a survey to determine what piece of gear sailors most appreciated. Hands down, the answer was an autopilot.)
Dave,
I would not mount that control box on hte side, in front of the engine controls. That box has a fluxgate compass in it, which counts on the face of the box pointing towards the bow or stern, and as close to the centerline as possible. This minimizes the movement of the gymbal that the fluxgate is held in, and allows for a more accurate and smoother response.
The side-mount would have been the worst possible location for the compass. But you would have discovered this as you went through the instructions for mounting. I thought I would save you the time and allow planning to put it athwartship instead.
tadmcdonald@worldnet.att.net
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John
Re: CD-30 autopilot ?
I believe on the 4000 the compass is built in. However on the 5000, 6000,and 7000 the fluxgate is definately a seperate unit which needs to be carefully mounted as Tad mentioned. I have a Autohelm 6000 Type 1 linear drive pilot on our '83 CD30. I installed it and I can tell you that the fluxgate must be mounted below deck in a protected area as far from metal objects as possible. It does not have to be on the centerline, but getting it as close as is reasonably possible is wise. The important step is to be sure to line its indicator (moulded into the case) that points forward to be lined up parallel with the centerline of the boat. That is critical!
The below deck linear drive pilot is the only way to go in my book. I've seen too many pedestal pilots fail and get damaged. The below deck pilots are a lot more powerful as well. They don't work as hard to acheive the same result. The 6000 pilot has performed very well. Keep in mind Raytheon doesn't maintain a good parts reserve for the long haul. From the school of hard knocks, Have Extras!
Another excellent pilot you may want to consider is the ComNav pilots. They are very high quality, definately as good as an Autohelm and probably better and they cost less. They are made in Vancouver by ComNav Marine Ltd.,. Two other excellent pilots are AutoNav made by AutoNav Marine Systems, they are in Coquitlam, British Columbia.
The other is Robertson but they are more money. Cetrek is very good but that company has changed hands and seems to have growing pains these days according to what I've heard.
Look into the ComNav before you spend your $$$, I think you will be impressed with what they give you for the money. I would replace my 6000 with one, no second thought to that.
The below deck linear drive pilot is the only way to go in my book. I've seen too many pedestal pilots fail and get damaged. The below deck pilots are a lot more powerful as well. They don't work as hard to acheive the same result. The 6000 pilot has performed very well. Keep in mind Raytheon doesn't maintain a good parts reserve for the long haul. From the school of hard knocks, Have Extras!
Another excellent pilot you may want to consider is the ComNav pilots. They are very high quality, definately as good as an Autohelm and probably better and they cost less. They are made in Vancouver by ComNav Marine Ltd.,. Two other excellent pilots are AutoNav made by AutoNav Marine Systems, they are in Coquitlam, British Columbia.
The other is Robertson but they are more money. Cetrek is very good but that company has changed hands and seems to have growing pains these days according to what I've heard.
Look into the ComNav before you spend your $$$, I think you will be impressed with what they give you for the money. I would replace my 6000 with one, no second thought to that.
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Patrick Turner
Re: CD-30 autopilot ?
I would like to hear from those of you who have installed the Autohelm ST4000+. I have heard and read an awful lot of negative press on these units. "They're too slow, noisey, prone to malfunction, gears break,etc." Getting an autopilot to work well on a Cape Dory while going to windward is a no brainer, but I would be much more concerned about how it performs off the wind where you reall need the speed and power to overcome the boats natural tendency for weather helm, etc.
Has anyone installed a different autopilot on one of these boats, like a Navico or CPT? The CPT hands down is the more powerful, quicker, quieter, maintenece free wheel autopilot out there. It's true it doesn't interface with other electonics. Is this why it's less appealing?
Even the Navico Wheel pilot is faster, more powerful and quieter than the Autohelm (based on technical info printed and a review by Practical Sailor that is). Anyone our there use the CX300? I'm also interested in installing an autopilot in my CD30, but am confused about which one to look at. On paper the best unit is the least heard about and the worst unit is the one most installed......go figure.
Would love to hear from real people about their reasons for their purchased and the experience....both good and bad....that they have had with the units. Did they perform well on all points of sail, were they able to handle stong wind conditions, etc.
Thanks in advance,
Pat
patturner@earthlink.net
Has anyone installed a different autopilot on one of these boats, like a Navico or CPT? The CPT hands down is the more powerful, quicker, quieter, maintenece free wheel autopilot out there. It's true it doesn't interface with other electonics. Is this why it's less appealing?
Even the Navico Wheel pilot is faster, more powerful and quieter than the Autohelm (based on technical info printed and a review by Practical Sailor that is). Anyone our there use the CX300? I'm also interested in installing an autopilot in my CD30, but am confused about which one to look at. On paper the best unit is the least heard about and the worst unit is the one most installed......go figure.
Would love to hear from real people about their reasons for their purchased and the experience....both good and bad....that they have had with the units. Did they perform well on all points of sail, were they able to handle stong wind conditions, etc.
Thanks in advance,
Pat
patturner@earthlink.net
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JOhn MacArthur
Re: HUH?!?! Re: CD-30 autopilot ?
The compass is mounted low, near the centerline and away from large metal objects (i.e., engines). The orientation of the control panel/display is totally inconsequential.
To take this to the extreme, consider this. The mounting bracket for my AutoHelm was installed (before I owned Stork) *backwards*. I have to show a reciprocal course on the unit for the one I want to steer. I know this sounds bizarre, and it *looks* right; I don't get it either. I always have adjusted an auto steering device by the main nav compass, anyway, and not by the compass on the unit. So if there is deviation in the units compass, it doesn't really matter.
jmac@laplaza.org
To take this to the extreme, consider this. The mounting bracket for my AutoHelm was installed (before I owned Stork) *backwards*. I have to show a reciprocal course on the unit for the one I want to steer. I know this sounds bizarre, and it *looks* right; I don't get it either. I always have adjusted an auto steering device by the main nav compass, anyway, and not by the compass on the unit. So if there is deviation in the units compass, it doesn't really matter.
jmac@laplaza.org
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Bill Gold
Re: CD-30 autopilot ?
The Autohelm ST4000 was on Seraphim when I bought her last year. I love having the autopilot, but there are some things I don't like about it:I'm considering addding an autopilot to a 1984 CD-30 w/ Edson wheel. Suggestions and experience on models and installation would be appreciated.
Hank
1) Yaws a lot when sailing to windward in 15+ knots of wind
2) Yaws a lot when sailing downwind
3) Yaws a lot when sailing in 2 knot currents, tide rips, and wakes of large power boats
4) Lately, the wheel lock pops up periodically and the boat goes off course
As I said, I've had the boat only a year and my experience has been on the Columbia River, Puget Sound, the San Juans and Gulf Islands. In the quiet waters of Desolation Sound, it did fine. It's been a great year on the boat, though.
Now I may need to do some adjustments to steering or location of the fluxgate, but I usually hit standby and steer manually in those conditons. Light air, little current, it's fine.
Bill Gold
cd30 Seraphim
billgold@hotmail.com
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Larry DeMers
Re: CD-30 autopilot Mounting correction..
Hi Guys,
Sorry for the misdirection. I have the Autohelm 3000, which has a remote motor, and a control panel/compass only. In this situation, the compass unit (control panel) must be mounted as close as possible to the center line and 1-2 meters away from nearby magnetic materials.
So the 4000 has a separate control panel from the compass unit? Good idea!! I wonder if the motors are the same..maybe I can update the electronics and keep the motor.
Regards,
Larry DeMers
demers@sgi.com
Sorry for the misdirection. I have the Autohelm 3000, which has a remote motor, and a control panel/compass only. In this situation, the compass unit (control panel) must be mounted as close as possible to the center line and 1-2 meters away from nearby magnetic materials.
So the 4000 has a separate control panel from the compass unit? Good idea!! I wonder if the motors are the same..maybe I can update the electronics and keep the motor.
Regards,
Larry DeMers
Huh? The mounting of the control panel/display doesn't have anything to do with the fluxgate compass (at least as far as my ST4000 is concerned). The compass is mounted low, near the centerline and away from large metal objects (i.e., engines). The orientation of the control panel/display is totally inconsequential. Or am I missing the point here?
I have had my display mounted on the port bulkhead of the cockpit about 4 inches off the cockpit sole. The fluxgate is mounted underneath the sink in the head (Cape Dory 30) on the starboard side.
(BTW, a former acquaintance of mine told me that while he was the Technical Editor of Cruising World magazine they did a survey to determine what piece of gear sailors most appreciated. Hands down, the answer was an autopilot.)
Dave,
I would not mount that control box on hte side, in front of the engine controls. That box has a fluxgate compass in it, which counts on the face of the box pointing towards the bow or stern, and as close to the centerline as possible. This minimizes the movement of the gymbal that the fluxgate is held in, and allows for a more accurate and smoother response.
The side-mount would have been the worst possible location for the compass. But you would have discovered this as you went through the instructions for mounting. I thought I would save you the time and allow planning to put it athwartship instead.
demers@sgi.com
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Catherine Monaghan
Re: CD-30 autopilot ?
Hank,
Before running off and purchasing the ST4000, check where the controls are located on your pedestal. You may have to make more modifications than you think.
For instance, on our CD32, the gear shift is located between the wheel and the pedestal directly in front of the helmsman. Before an ST400 could be installed on our boat, we'd have to replace the engine controls.
As it is, we've got an ST3000. The wheel for the ST3000 is mounted on the aft side of the steering wheel rather than between the wheel and pedestal. This is a setup I don't particularly care for (came with the boat when we purchased it from original owner) but it's the only way to install a wheel autopilot without making other modifications.
By the way, the ST3000 is too slow and noisy for my liking and it doesn't jibe well at all. But when we've used it, we've appreciated having it.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
catherine_monaghan@meck.com
Before running off and purchasing the ST4000, check where the controls are located on your pedestal. You may have to make more modifications than you think.
For instance, on our CD32, the gear shift is located between the wheel and the pedestal directly in front of the helmsman. Before an ST400 could be installed on our boat, we'd have to replace the engine controls.
As it is, we've got an ST3000. The wheel for the ST3000 is mounted on the aft side of the steering wheel rather than between the wheel and pedestal. This is a setup I don't particularly care for (came with the boat when we purchased it from original owner) but it's the only way to install a wheel autopilot without making other modifications.
By the way, the ST3000 is too slow and noisy for my liking and it doesn't jibe well at all. But when we've used it, we've appreciated having it.
catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay
I'm considering addding an autopilot to a 1984 CD-30 w/ Edson wheel. Suggestions and experience on models and installation would be appreciated.
Hank
catherine_monaghan@meck.com
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Rick Robinson
Autopilot feed back wanted!!!
I too am very close to installing an autopilot on my CD33. The feed back so far is great. I was leaning toward an ST400+, but the mounting on my Edson pedestal worries me. Now I'm looking at a "below deck" model.
Would it be too much to ask for those of you who have installed autopilots to give those of us who are going to install one the model you have, the pros and cons and even how/where its installed. With good information, we can make better choices.
Thanks!
Rick@citycom.com
Would it be too much to ask for those of you who have installed autopilots to give those of us who are going to install one the model you have, the pros and cons and even how/where its installed. With good information, we can make better choices.
Thanks!
Rick@citycom.com
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Patrick Turner
Re: CD-30 autopilot ?
Here's what I think......if you truely plan on using the autopilot only in calm conditions or when your motoring....then a wheel mounted autopilot will suffice, but if you think that you would like the option of using it under stronger conditions (really anything over about 12 knots) the below deck autopilot is the way to go. I admit the lower cost of the wheel mounted autopilots is awfully attractive and as long as your willing to accept the limitations of these units, they're fine. Think long term....and how you will really use the autopilot. I'm leaning towards a below decks model myself....just have to bite the bullet.
patturner@eartlink.net
patturner@eartlink.net
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Jay Ankers
Re: Some tried & tested feedback - Autohelm ST3000
My wife and I installed an Autohelm ST-3000 on our CD-30 before this season and it is the best purchase we have made for the boat. During our move from South Carolina to Chesapeake Bay, the autopilot steered 80% of the way. On the ocean, while on a reach or a beat, it is great. Running downwind is a test for any autopilot and it lets the boat oversteer in each direction but still keeps it going in the correct direction.
Any autopilot will be able to handle motoring and this one is easy to set and turn off when we want to steer. With the external belt and simple set up, you can just take the belt off of the wheel when you want to sail without any interference at all. The sound of the loose belt sliding on the wheel is not a nuisance to me anymore.
West Marine does not sell them anymore for some reason, but we got a GREAT deal from Defender; $689 I believe. The older unit was recommended to us by several people (with larger boats) that had used them for several years and trusted them.
Jay
Per Diem
CD-30 #344
jankers@pii-cgmp.com
Any autopilot will be able to handle motoring and this one is easy to set and turn off when we want to steer. With the external belt and simple set up, you can just take the belt off of the wheel when you want to sail without any interference at all. The sound of the loose belt sliding on the wheel is not a nuisance to me anymore.
West Marine does not sell them anymore for some reason, but we got a GREAT deal from Defender; $689 I believe. The older unit was recommended to us by several people (with larger boats) that had used them for several years and trusted them.
Jay
Per Diem
CD-30 #344
jankers@pii-cgmp.com