What happened to my rudder this afternoon?

[Dale W. Bridges]

I have not yet jumped into the 67 degree water to check (yet) but would like to hear opinions;
Jumped onto my boat (CD 27 #29 "Czarina"), started the 2gm20 (purr), tossed & hung dock lines, backed out and while forward fending a piling heard the familiar sound of my prop thumping against my rudder as when the helm falls over to one extreme (as it was), jumped into the cockpit, centered the tiller but the thumping continued. It was then I realized that I had no steerage (and that the tiller was under zero load). I assume that I have a rudder-post problem/disengagement, yes? I mean, there's no way I dropped my rudder! In any case, thank goodness it happened right in front of my slip! I'll sort it out next week. Has it happened to any of you?

Regards,

[bill2]

You may want to check the connection between the tiller and the shaft to the rudder. They must be locked into position - usually with a "key" fitting a corresponding groove to align the tiller and shaft though sometimes with a bolt or a flat surface ( actually looks like a "D" shaped male fitting on the shaft ) to match up with a similar "D" shaped female fitting on the tiller . You may also see a "key" held in place by a bolt and nut.

If the connection comes apart/loose you are turning the tiller but the rudder is "freewheeling" as opposed to "locked" to the tiller.

Be advised that this is in no way to be confused with another thread on this board about locking/freewheeling a prop - the rudder absolutely must be locked to the tiller - and hence your boat will not have less drag if the rudder is freewheeled !

Happy New Year !

[Dale W. Bridges]

DO you mean at the point of connection in the cockpit or is it beneath the cockpit sole? Where? Again, I have not inspected it but LOVE any direction.

Regards and a Good '07 to You, Sir.

[Oswego John]

Dale,

I think that bill2 is talking about the connection in the cockpit. If that connection proves to be okay, I'm afraid that your trouble is underwater below the hull.

Let us know what you find.

O J

[Parfait's Provider]

The rudder will likely have less drag if it is "freewheeled." Cockpit monkeys often oversteer and cause turbulent flow. However, freewheeling does make going backwards even more of a challenge.

HAPPY NEW YEAR EVERYONE!!

[bill2]

Dale

OJ's interpretation is right - I was referring to the tiller rudder connection in the cockpit.

If that connection is solid ( "Locked" but let's agree not to use this politically charged - as in another thread - word ) then you may have a more serious problem - a separation of the rudder surface from the vertical shaft on its leading edge below the water line - not common but does happen occasionally.

Good Luck

[Lew Gresham]

Maybe this will help since I am in Zip lock bags!




<img width="540" src="http://i125.photobucket.com/albums/p52/ ... cts152.jpg">

[Steve Kuhar]

Diagnosis on this should be simple, grab the rudder shaft below the tiller (there is about one inch of the stainless shaft exposed in the cockpit of my 25D) pull sharply on the tiller, if the rudder shaft does not move a corresponding amount all you need to do is align the shaft with the tiller and tighten it down. If the tiller to rudder connection is solid, then you have a failure of the internal welds that connect the rudder shaft to the straps or plates that extend into the rudder itself. I have never heard of such an occurance in a Cape Dory but it does happen in let us just say boats of lesser pedigree.

[tartansailor]

I can't diagnose the problem from here, but what I can offer is how Cape Dory fabricated the rudder on my CD-25, and hopefully that will give you some insight into your situation.
Here is a pic: http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/t ... 0_0156.jpg

There are four 5/16" pins welded perpendicular to the rudder post and extending into the body of the rudder. Starting from the top, they are spaced 1&3/4" down, then 15&1/4", 27&3/4" and finally 36&1/2" down the 38" rudder.

I forgot the exact numbers but from what I can recall of my calculations, the force on my rudder is about 2,300# and the bending moment was much more, around 2,700# at hull speed. Again going from faulty memory, the bending moment of four 5/16" pins was not that much greater according to what I found in Machinery's Handbook.

Typically rudder failure starts at the top with bending of the top pin causing metal fatigue, and working its way down till the rudder separates from the post.

There is a company in Florida who specializes in manufacturing rudders, and they quoted me a price of $1,250 plus round trip shipping.

There is a Toscanini with a torch here in DE that built a rudder for me by welding 3/16" plate the entire length of the post and extending out to the back, top and bottom edges for less than half the price above, without warping the post!!
Here is a pic:
http://i76.photobucket.com/albums/j19/t ... 0_0157.jpg

Dick

[mahalocd36]

the familiar sound of my prop thumping against my rudder as when the helm falls over to one extreme

I gotta ask - this doesn't sound like it's good for the prop nor the rudder - is this common on CD27's? Never been on a boat that does that. Once you figure out your current problem I think I would try to fix this problem.
Prop too big?

[Dale W. Bridges]

Thanks to you all for your responses, I will NEVER hesitate to ask again!

Went to the marina this morning, found the "key or pin" (please advise as to correct part name) lying on the cockpit sole, removed the broze fitting at the tiller base, reinstalled the "key or pin", reinstalled the tiller base and tiller and that, my friends, was that!

The entire assembly looked to be in great shape it is difficult to see how that little pin could wriggle free but as the tiller base was a bit loose I suppose it was just the right series of events.

It's nice to have an easy issue for once I guess I'm used to assuming the worst first! Funny, I don't FEEL like a pessimist!

Thanks Again!

[Parfait's Provider]

Dale,

Congrats on finding that pin. If I had lost it, it would have been down the scupper before the next heartbeat.

As you can tell from some of my answers, and others at times, many of us aren't experts, but like to play with puzzles. There is no sense in depriving us of our entertainment; be like the others and ask away. Some days our advice is excellent, some days it is bad. Trick is to know the difference and some days no one can figure that out. You can be assured that our thinking will often be out of the box, but that even so, we miss one completely on occassion.

[Dale W. Bridges]

Beaufort, what a great town.

Thanks again for the advice (boxed or un-boxed). It's great being able to direct one's Cape Dory questions at a panel of Cape Dory owners. The broader the spedctrum of possible answers the better, right?

Here's to easy fixes!

[Sandy D.]

Howdy Dale-
You will notice in Lews' picture that his tiller cap has a small bolt on the aft side. This was added by Spartin a bit down the line,the original sliped over the shaft and was tightened only by the the nut&bolt on the front side. Needless to say this connection is very important. The tiller will function quite well when loose,however,if upward pull is applied,the cap will slide off the shaft,the key will fall out,and you are without steerage!(trust me,you don't need this kind of excitment)

Spartin Marine sold me a new tiller cap for around $75.

FairWinds,
Sandy

[Efrost]

When I purchased my 22 about 10 months ago, the bolt that holds the tiller key in tightly was missing. The key, which is made of brass, was worn down somewhat, from not being held firmly in place. I just couldn't get the tiller strap on tight enough to keep out some "slop" in the steering. I called Spartan to see about getting a new key, and since they don't sell them indivdually and had no idea of a price, they just sent me one for free.