Paper Charts and Electronic Wonders

[j2sailor]

Hey Guys,
I'm putting together some research for a book. Specifically, I'm trying to get a feel for how many sailors still use paper charts in addition to electronic charts. In my neck of the woods - Florida - I'm seeing more and more sailors leaving the paper at home and going strictly electronic.

And I'm talking maritime pros - not those who don't know better. I'm a maritime professional myself and always carry paper and use it in addition to other systems.

I'm curious for your take on this. Every book and expert on seamanship and navigation seems to warn against this. Raster and vector displays have their limitations (over-zooming, stacking of symbols and clutter - to name a few). What is driving so many to place unconditional trust in ENCs?
Thanks for your time...J

[tartansailor]

j2sailor originally wrote: "[/i]What is driving so many to place unconditional trust in ENCs?
Ans.
1) Laziness,
2) Lack of Prudence.

Can you recite the L & Lo of your home port?

I know that I am an old discard, but I will never give up plotting my DR

But I will concede (1) modern upgrade; I went from Ageton to the NASRM
Dick

[Joe CD MS 300]

I have been using handheld GPS, handheld chartplotters and more recently fixed chartplotters for probably 15 years or more. I never go anywhere with out the paper charts though and always have them out in the cockpit. In general I use the paper charts for an overview and to identify hazards. But to tell me where I'm at, confirming what I see its hard to beat a chartplotter. There is still nothing like a good harbor chart to point out hazards but when I'm navigating a tight harbor or passage my visual judgement of exactly where I'm at just can't compete with a chartplotter.

When navigating in unfamiliar areas I always match up my GPS routes with the preprinted headings on the charts or my own headings on the paper charts. I've made mistakes before in entering waypoints so I'm conscious of that possibility although its much easier ti identify a mistake on a plotted waypoint vs a non-chartplotter GPS unit.

Maybe in Fla. where you have a soft bottom its less of an issue but up in ME, with millions of granite ledges I'll keep using both.

[Parfait's Provider]

I love my chartplotter; it gives me much more opportunity to look around and see what they didn't have a chance to chart. Things like boats, ships, dredges, dolphin, whales (not really), etc.

However, as I contemplated your question, I wondered if having the chart in the cockpit on the right page is good enough. I know I sometimes cross check to make sure I am on the right page, but do I really know where I am on open water? In the ditch it is a matter of remembering a marker. In the sound or on the ocean it is different. I generally have the compass course to the next waypoint in my head, but if is just an imaginary turning point, will I know when I get there if the chartplotter dies? I don't think so. If my RADAR were separate from the chartplotter, I might be more comfortable dead reckoning to an outlying buoy when returning from the sea, but that is not my case. If I were out of visual contact with any buoys and the chartplotter gave up on the ocean, I'd bet that I would be heading towards shore (northwest is a good bet around here), watching the depth sounder, and turning as I reached 30 ft or so to intersect with the ship channel buoys.

Maybe your commercial buddies have such a scheme in mind and feel that the electronic charts are more than adequate?

BTW, I do carry a couple of handhelds. One is tied into the VHF so it can report my position and the other is just there ready to get me out of trouble if the plotter can't or won't. I should probably make a waypoinot of buoy #1 of the Morehead City channel in both of them if it isn't there already. From there I can find my way home if it isn't dark and/or foggy; or was that dark 'n stormy?

In which case, Cape Lookout it is.

[Steve Laume]

I am pretty much with Joe on this. The chart plotter is a pretty amazing tool. After our first full season with it I would not give up paper charts but neither would I be eager to get rid of the electronic. Continuous plotting of your position in a heads up position is pretty amazing. I can look at the plotter see where my next NAV aid should be, know exactly what I should be looking for, search that area with or without binoculars and confirm my position long before I ever would have spotted the bouy to work the other way around. Charts are the only way to plot and plan but the plotter is hard to beat while under way. Both is the way to go, Steve.

[Ed Haley]

Like most of you, I use both.

There's nothing like paper charts to give you the big picture when underway on a cruise, especially if it's your first time in the area. I use both the large NOAA paper charts and Richardson's charts of my area.

When planning a trip, I pencil in the route on my Richardson's book to get the large picture of the trip. While underway during the day, my chartplotter is used for local navigation while the Richardson's is on the same page (chart).

At night, the chartplotter really comes into its own navigating through and among the many islands and shoals in my area. The paper charts are put away in familiar areas.

As I've said, the paper charts are essential in getting the big picture that can't be obtained with a chartplotter. A DR course is plotted on the paper charts for the first trip and after the trip the line is drawn on the electronic chart for use on subsequent trips.

I wouldn't be without either. They both have their usefulness in navigation.

[John D.]

and I don't sail anywhere if I don't have a paper chart of it. I'm planning to get a chartplotter eventually, but I'll always carry the paper charts.

[j2sailing]

Thanks to everyone for the invaluable input. Here's my next question...

How much importance do you place on your logbook?
Do you record magnetic and steered courses in familiar waters?
Do entries include latitude, longitude and the last hours average speed-over-ground?

In thick weather or low visibility - without electronics - would you feel confident using your log entries along with the steering compass and dead-reckoning to find your way home?

thanks...J

[Joe Myerson]

I've got to agree with most other postings: I always keep a paper chart with me in the cockpit, but I do like to have a device that keeps constant track of my position.

Until this season, my GPS was a handheld that showed me navaids, but not chart details (Garmin GPS 75). This year I upgraded to a GPSMAP 75, which has a little screen. Someday I might get a real chartplotter, but I find the combination of paper and electronics to be comforting. And, my little handheld, which is mounted near my compass, is also wired into my DSC VHF.

(The old GPS75 also comes along for the ride, as a backup.)

At home, I have MapTech's Offshore Navigator software, which lets me plan cruises and download waypoints to my tiny little GPS. I can also print out charts (in 8 1/2 x 11 format), but I also like to have a chartbook of the area.

ANSWERING QUESTION 2:

I keep a log book, actually transcriptions from a small helm log. In it I record my course (per ship's compass), my speed over ground (from the GPS), and my position, as well as my last tack. I'm pretty confident that I could use that info to find my way back to where I started using this information, but I haven't had to do so yet.

--Joe

[Parfait's Provider]

OK, I'll admit it, I don't use one even though there are several in the house. I do keep a maintenance log and try to summarize trips in the log, but not a turn-by-turn or hour-by-hour log. Maybe a voice recorder would be a great idea as I could read the info off the screen and refer back to it if necessary to plot a position on the paper chart. I should probably be more careful about following recommended courses on the sounds, but that is probably where everyone else is, and I really want space between me and most boaters, especially the fast ones.

Is anyone getting the impression that this is a disaster waiting to happen? Do you see the dolphins that come up to wink at you?

[mahalocd36]

To answer your first set of questions, we have paper charts aboard. They are usually in the cockpit, if not, easily reachable if the electronics fail. Having had a chartplotter fail, I would never go anywhere I didn't have paper charts aboard for as well.
We have a chartplotter, and Nobletec software on the laptop, though we only use that for planning.

Thanks to everyone for the invaluable input. Here's my next question...

How much importance do you place on your logbook?
Do you record magnetic and steered courses in familiar waters?
Do entries include latitude, longitude and the last hours average speed-over-ground?

In thick weather or low visibility - without electronics - would you feel confident using your log entries along with the steering compass and dead-reckoning to find your way home?

thanks...J

We did use a logbook for our overnight trip to Maine, entering course, speed, lat/long, (and others: sails, up , windspeed, weather, engine hours) every hour and if we changed any of the above significantly. We don't tend to do that in fair weather within sight of land for daysails, though we did on the longer passages on our trip (Portland->Isle of Shoals, Isle of Shoals->Gloucester, Gloucester->Plymouth) as we could still see land but weren't along the coast.

Admittedly, we don't do that in familiar waters. We do it in limited visibility though.
I feel confident we could find our way home or to a safe harbor
should we need to. When our chartplotter did fail, it was on a nice day in Buzzards Bay, and we just sailed home. (We might have put our backup GPS on, I don't remember). (Now we have a backup - backup GPS

[Steve Darwin]

I'm with Joe on this. I spent several days sailing on a friend's Concordia yawl on Penobscot Bay. The plotter was great for showing our position large-scale, tight in near rocks and buoys, but we used the paper chart to get the big picture of what was up ahead.

I keep a general log. At the end of the day I record date and times of departure and arrival, distances traveled as taken from the chart, people on board, sea and weather conditions, sails set, significant or interesting events, and any other information I may want to refer to in the future (info on particular harbors, cost of mooring, name of harbor master, compass course from point A to point B, etc.). Also (very useful) all maintenance performed on the boat, engine. The season's first log entry describes the work done prior to launch. At the end of the season, I tally up the plotted miles and print out the log. Makes for good reading during the winter, and keeps me inspired.

[Joe CD MS 300]

I've always thought it was used in long distance cruising where in general, at least, you are out of sight of land. All my cruising is harbor hoping, never out of sight of land, never or rarely far from alternate harbors along the coast of Maine or sometimes on the Chesapeake. I always know where I'm at. Can't think of a situation in my type of sailing / crusing where I would need a log. Never have needed one in 25 years that I'm aware of. Am I missing something?

[dasein668]

Can't think of a situation in my type of sailing / crusing where I would need a log. Never have needed one in 25 years that I'm aware of. Am I missing something?

I don't thinks so.

I also don't see that I need to keep a running DR plot going either, for normal daysailing and even coastal cruising. I know that some will think this is heretical.

Under normal conditions I have visual references of shore/islands which I can match up on my charts and know quite closely where I am. I don't need my gps to tell me where I am and whether I'm getting to my location. My coastal pilotage is plenty good enough to navigate safely using just a chart, my eyeballs, and a compass. My GPS and fathometer are nice, but unnecessary, additonal tools.

If it looks like it is going to suddenly shut-down with fog, than I could always start a DR plot at that point.

[Neil Gordon]

I don't for say sailing in local waters but I keep the chart handy in any case. Coastal cruising I lay my courses out on the chart and either keep a DR track on the chart or note my position in a rough log from time to time. When things go badly and life gets confusing, it's nice to know for sure whether the ledge is ahead or behind you.

I've heard a number of panic calls on the radio, all presumably made by reasonably competent skippers. One got tossed badly in a squall; the other got disoriented in the fog. Both had all the information they needed to navigate safely but their state of mind prevented them from applying the science.

By the way, in my experience you don't always see the fog setting in. Sometimes you look up and what was there is gone.