Self-tending jib for a CD 25D

Eliot Daley · Post by **Eliot Daley** » Oct 12th, '06, 21:41

I am considering buying a CD 25D...but only if I can rig it with a self-tending jib. Has this been done successfully by others? And, if so, could you please give me some insight about what is involved?

Thanks very much.

Bob Luby · Post by **Bob Luby** » Oct 13th, '06, 12:01

As a two boat owner, 25D, and CD36., I'd say that you could put either a track or a sincle block on the deck forward of the mast. and run the jibsheet through a line organizer on the cabintop to the cockpit. You would have to mount the sheet winch on the cabintop too.

The 25D Deck is balsa-cored; when mounting hardware you would have to remove core from the area surrounding the mounting holes, fill the voids with epoxy and then drill the mounting holes.

One problem I see is that you'd be limiting the size of your jib, and thus the boat's performance in light air, where a big genoa comes in handy. As it is, you can easily reach the jibsheets from the helm: If the jibsheet were moved to the cabintop, it would be definitely harder for the helmsman to reach it on one tack, depending on how it would be mounted.

Hope this helps.
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Dick Barthel · Post by **Dick Barthel** » Oct 13th, '06, 12:46

Bob Luby wrote:As a two boat owner, 25D, and CD36., .

Bob,

I don't remember you telling us all you found a 36. I knew from talking to you at our Stonington event that you were looking for a bigger boat. Wow that's quite a jump. Do you and Karen have any big adventures in the works?

Tell us something about her and maybe post some pics.

Dick

Neil Gordon · Post by **Neil Gordon** » Oct 13th, '06, 13:34

See if you can find a 28 that still has the self-tending setup (many have been removed). The hardware is straightforward and the only real issue would be protecting the balsa core, as mentioned, and sufficient backing to handle the loads.

The 25D is a pretty good boat straight from the factory. What problem are you trying to solve with a self-tending jib (other than saving a bit of effort when tacking)?

Eliot Daley · Post by **Eliot Daley** » Oct 13th, '06, 13:36

Thanks, Bob Luby, for your quick and thoughful response. As for the loss of driving power due to a decrease in the size of the jib, I am willing to give this up in deference to my own and my wife's advanced age and various injuries. We just can't handle the physical load for handling stress-loaded jib sheets any more, even with geared winches. And, frankly, at this point in our lives we're mostly interested in just beating about the bay on a nice afternoon for the pure sensation of sailing, so poky is okay with us.

I do have a follow-on question, however. As I study photos of the CD 25 (don't have one close at hand to study "in person"), I see that there's an anchor hatch in the foredeck. I wonder if that would preclude bolting a conventional jib boom (club-footed type) or a Hoyt Jib Boom up there. Is there room for it? And does the hatch opening compromise the structural rigidity of that area of the deck to the extent that it'd be unfeasible to subject it to the stresses that might be imposed (or, by contrast, could one put cross members beneath the deck to strengthen it and spread the load)?

Thanks in advance for any further insights.

Bob Luby · Post by **Bob Luby** » Oct 14th, '06, 11:49

I have not seen a 25D with a jib boom. Given the location of the anchor locker It might be difficult to mount one, because the locker is in the location one would use to mount the boom hardware to the deck. I think that a jib boom is out. I'd suggest mounting a track or block on the cabintop.

BTW- since you folks are not what you were in your 30's, I'd suggest you **and your wife** test your boarding ladder to make sure that you can climb it easily **from the water**. If you fall overboard, it might be nice to be able to get back on , you know?

Of course, maybe you should downsize at this point to a Sea Sprite , Ty, or even an Ensign.
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Steve Darwin · Post by **Steve Darwin** » Oct 14th, '06, 22:55

Hi Eliot,

You should be able to add a jib-boom without modifying the working jib. I added a jib-boom to a Cape Cod Bull's Eye two years ago and it works very well.

The foot of the jib, tack to clew, is shorter by a few inches than the distance from the bow chainplate to the mast, isn't it? It must be for the jib-boom to move across the foredeck while tacking. If not, you need a smaller jib.

The boom doesn't have to be very heavy-duty. A wooden spar about 3 inches diameter should work, tapered at each end.

Attach the forward end of the jib-boom to the bow chainplate, perhaps by screwing a pair of stainless tangs to each side of the boom and then shackling through them and around or through the forestay turnbuckle. On the Bull's Eye, I drilled into the end of the boom and inserted (glued) a turnbuckle stud and then shackled through the stud's jaws to attach the boom to the chainplate (in that instance, the chainplate conveniently had an extra hole I could use for the purpose).

In short, you don't need to screw anything to the deck up forward.

The jib outhaul passes from the sail's clew through a cheek block near the after end of the jib-boom, then forward along the length of the boom to a turning block that is either tied or shackled to the bow chainplate, or attached to the boom itself near its forward end.

The bitter end of the outhaul can be cleated up forward, or taken aft through blocks tied to the lifeline stanchions, or through deck-mounted fairleads to or near the cockpit, or to the cabin roof. Alternatively, if you have a hank-on jib, the outhaul can be cleated to the jib-boom before raising the sail.

On the Bull's Eye, this worked very well with a roller-furler: both the furling line and the jib outhaul are worked from the cockpit.

The jib sheet will need two turning blocks (perhaps running from the forward end of each of the existing sheet tracks on the side decks). The after end of the jib-boom will have a swivel block through which the continuous jib sheet passes and along which the boom will travel when tacking.

Does this seem feasible? As I said, it works on the daysailor and should also work on the 25D.

- Steve

If this link works, it will take you to a picture of the rig on the Bull's Eye:
http://www.tulane.edu/%7Edarwin/Comus/C ... -boom2.jpg

Eliot Daley · Post by **Eliot Daley** » Oct 15th, '06, 08:52

Thanks to you both, Bob Luby and Steve Darwin, for your very thoughtful and helpful suggestions.

Bob, I have begun to take your "daysailer" advice seriously and am now scouting that territory...have found some nice craft (e.g., Bluenose, Quickstep, Stone Horse) that are appealing. And your reminder about re-boarding capacity for seventy-somethings is especially welcome for folks who sail in the instant-hypothermia waters of Maine.

Steve, the photo of the Bullseye came through perfectly, and your detailed instructions are particularly thorough and will be my "manual" when I settle on a boat that I can retrofit accordingly. Thank you for taking the time to be so specific in the steps involved.

Bob Luby · Post by **Bob Luby** » Oct 15th, '06, 20:49

I remember going aboard a Stonehorse when I was looking at boats. I was struck by the intelligence of the cabin design: It was NOT designed as a scaled-down "40-footer for munchkins". Sam Crocker designed it with the idea that everything had to be reached while sitting down. However the lack of an enclosed head might put off your s.o. It is also cutter-rigged, so its jib is pretty small, and I think the staysail is self-tending, and is on a boom.

We went down to Grendel and took most of the stuff off her before haul-out. Unlike the Stonehorse's flush deck forward, Grendel has a real cabin trunk fairly close to the anchor locker. Any boom would have to clear it. There is also the matter of the hatch on the forward cabin trunk. Do not tacK while it is open. So the jib boom would be maybe 30 degrees from horizontal.

So , ( and I'm thinking aloud here ) I'd lean towards a boomless, roller-furling, self-tending jib, led to a traveller mounted forward of the mast. That might work.
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Steve Kuhar · Post by **Steve Kuhar** » Oct 15th, '06, 21:51

Eliot,

I would not preclude buying a 25D for lack of a self tending jib. I have been sailing hull # 5 since we purchased it new in 1981 and have no trouble at all coming about singlehanded and without exertion. I throw off the active sheet as I come through the wind and immediately oversheet on the new tack. with a working jib you can hold the sheet with two turns around the winch with one hand even in a fairly strong wind. When I get my course stabilized on the new heading I ease the sheet to its correct position and cleat it. It is not as pretty with the 130 but it still works. The only time I need a winch handle is if I want to sheet in further on the same tack.

Steve Kuhar
Pensacola

Joe Myerson · Post by **Joe Myerson** » Oct 16th, '06, 20:37

Eliot:

I've got to agree with Steve K.; I've been sailing my 25D for 3 seasons with a working jib. I do intend to order a genny (no larger than a 120) for the coming season, but with the working jib properly sheeted (outboard of the first stay and inboard of the others, it's very easy to handle.

On the other hand, I recently got to test sail a Stonehorse: The boat handles very nicely, and except in the lightest of winds, you can furl the yankee and sail with the self-tending jib.

Warning: There is no standing headroom, which can be a bit uncomfortable, despite the very nice design of the interior.

Best of luck in your search for a suitable boat.

--Joe

The Cape Dory Board