Roller Furling

[car1260]

Hi,
We have recently purchased a 1983 25D "Yolo" Hull #91. We have just returned from a sailing expedition with John & Amanda Neal on Mahina Tiare III on the North Sea from Scotland to Sweden. Now, we are excited about getting our boat ready to sail to Mexico, Central America, and who knows? The boat came with a working jib & a 150% genny. Before we left we were planning on putting the 150% on a Hood Sea Furl roller furler with foam luff & reinforcement on the foot for reefing to 100%. However, Amanda who was a professional rigger & a rigger on the Whitbred round the world race does not like Hood & prefers Furlex over all other furlers. As much as I value her opinion, I am put off by the complexity of the Furlex installation. Hood seems to be pretty straight forward, but I believe when installing the Furlex you would need to hire a rigger to check your rig tuning & length of your existing forestay before installation so you do not cut the included forestay from Furlex the wrong length. Then their is the question of whether we are capable of cutting the forestay ourselves without ruining it. We are "do it yourself" type of people, and would like to here from anyone who might have installed a Furlex on their own who could give us some tips. Also, does anyone have any opinions regarding putting a 150 on the furler? We are concerned about it being too lightwieght(our sail loft doesn't seem to think this would be a problem.) Thanks for any help you can give us!

[bottomscraper]

Can't comment on Furlex vs Hood but...

I installed new furlers (Profurl) on Mahalo about 3 years ago. It was not a that hard. The instructions that came with it were clear and easy to follow. Careful measurement is important but it's not rocket science. I needed to cut both the aluminum extrusion and I also replaced the forestay. I used "Sta-Lok" fittings for the new forestay (and have since used them for replacing all our other standing rigging). Here is a web page that I made showing how to install "Sta-Loks"

Installing Sta-Lok Fittings

I didn't take any pictures of cutting the extrusion but I made a wood block like what I used for cutting the wire only larger. I used a hand hacksaw and a file to smooth the edges a bit.

We had the mast down when we did this but I think it is possible to install a Profurl with the mast up. It may be a bit harder to get good measurements with the mast up. If you are a "do it yourself" kind of person you should have no problems.

[John Vigor]

If you're planning to take your 25D on ocean voyages, I urge you to get advice about putting a 150-percent genoa on a roller furler.
It's not really possible to get good sail shapes from one large sail for the full range of winds it's likely to be flying in. By the time you've rolled up a 150 to the size of a storm jib, it's an inefficient bag with few, if any, redeeming qualities.

Out on the open ocean, when you're shorthanded and maybe not feeling all that good, it's far easier all round to have a smaller roller furler -- say a 110 or 120 -- that will reef down with a reasonably efficient shape to the size of a storm jib.

In light weather, it's simpler to fly a genoa drifter, either loose-luffed or attached to a moveable stay just aft of your forestay. It's easy to handle in calm conditions and you can remove it at the first sign of a blow, before the seas get up. Then you don't have any more foredeck work while it's blowing, but you can fly anything you like from 120 to storm jib size.

Note also that with a 150 roller furler, you'll need to adjust the sheet car on a long track every time you reduce sail area. A smaller sail needs less attention in this respect.

Also, remember that the bulk and weight of a rolled-up 150 genoa, high above the deck, causes problems with stability and windage, both while sailing and at anchor. The smaller the rolled-up sail, the better.

I have no doubt that 25D owners with 150-percent genoas can (and will) offer you more precise advice, but if I were you I wouldn't rush into putting a 150 on a roller furler for deep-sea work. I think you'd find a 110 or 120 to be a surprisingly useful sail, even in light airs.

John V.

[car1260]

Thanks for your comments. We're going to trade the 150 genny in on a new 110 or 120. John, I believe I read that you owned a 25D at one time, did you have a roller furler on yours? Also, does anyone have any experience with the ATN gale sail (storm jib) that sleeves over the roller furler? I am concerned about chafe on the furled sail.[/img]

[John Vigor]

Yes, I did indeed have a lovely little 25D. But no, it didn't have a roller furling foresail. I am not a fan of roller furlers for deep-sea work. The CD27 I subsequently bought had a roller furler and my first act was to throw it off.

In my view, if you're too incompetent, or too scared, to work on the foredeck, you shouldn't be going to sea. At sea on a cruising boat, you usually have the time and room to reach downwind while you're working on the foredeck, which makes conditions a lot safer. It's not as bad as many people imagine.

I don't lead any halliards back to the cockpit, either. When I'm too old to leave the cockpit and stand on the cabintop I shall take up golf instead. Or maybe knitting.

Incidentally, it will help if you can possibly persuade your sailmaker to come to your boat to measure for your new sail. You will need to decide whether you can sheet it inside or outside the shrouds.

Sheeting inside with a small foresail makes quite a difference to your ability to point. But it may not be practical with a sail that needs its sheets changed to a different track when you start reaching or running.

A bigger sail, bending naturally outside the shrouds and sheeting well aft on the gunwale, will allow you to point high and will also let you ease sheets without changing tracks or chafing on the shrouds. The big trick is to get the size of the sail right. A good sailmaker will help you here.

The 25D has a fair amount of weather helm, so you might also want to ask a sailmaker how practical it is to sail with a 110 or 120 genoa only--that is, without the mainsail--in a 15 to 20 knot beeze. Some boats will balance perfectly under that simple rig and reach full hull speed.

Sailboats look so simple, but there's always an awful lot to think about. And the simplest ones are often the result of the most thought.

John V.

[rtbates]

I wouldn't go any larger than say 130 for a roller headsail AND still be able to furler to <100 AND still act like a sail. We have a 130 roller/foam luff headsail on Seraph, our 25D, and it's wonderful. We've had it in to about 80- 90%, no main, in 45kts and it worked great, even beating back into the wind. I didn't do it for long!! It was vey wet as we didn't have our dodger rigged. Mike, sailing his 25D across the Pacific carries no storm canvas at all. He uses a roller/reefing headsail and a main with three reefs points. The forces just aren't that great in such a small boat. The 25D sails wonderfully with just the headsail. Like John said the 25D will develope weather helm in a heart beat. It needs to have the main reduced first and deep.

[Dean Abramson]

Carl,

My 25D also had a working jib and a 150. I had no furler. Here on the coast of Maine, I used the working jib about 75% of the time. The 150 came in really handy on light air days, but I think it is too big to be your primary jib, particularly offshore. Above 10 knots or so of wind, it gets to be a handful, with excessive heeling. I think if I was going with a furler (I have one on my current boat and love it), I would have the 150 cut down to a 120 or 130. A sailmaker could tell you if that is practical to do and stil have the draft where you want it. Just my humble opinion.

Dean

[car1260]

Thanks everyone. I see that everyone seems to agree on one thing, and that is that a 120 or 130 is a must have in our sail inventory!