cockpit reefing CD 27

[Mike C]

Does anyone have the correct placement for the dual location slab reefing. I saw it on a boat while getting fuel but it left before I had to ask the owner any more questions.

From the short minute or two, the owner of the Beneteau said that single line /single position is difficult but the two line /two postion made sailing a lot more fun with a lot less work.

Mike

[Duncan Maio]

Mike:

I don't understand your question. How is the reefing and halyard management on your boat set up now?

[Mike C]

Mike:

I don't understand your question. How is the reefing and halyard management on your boat set up now?

I have NO reefing on these sails. they are recut from old sails.

I am in the process of getting new sails for the CD 27. And trying to filter all the hype on what is needed and what is just bells and whistles. Roller reefing is out and it is one or two slab reefing that is now the question.

The sailboat I mentioned ( a French boat design I am told) had a set up to reef the main from the cockpit OR reef at the mast , in other words he could reef from more than one place. I have no idea how it can be done.

From the replies I have received so far , it seems the best ( and most usable) and easiest to have a single 1/3 area - two line reefing, one line at the correct place on the luff and one line from the clew up along the leech, both of these lines go down the mast and then to the cockpit jam cleats.

I am also wondering how often would two slab reefing points be used. Would just one suffice, perhaps by the time two is needed I should not be out there sailing.

[Duncan Maio]

My old sail had two reef points; the new one has only one, and I am thinking about adding a second. The boat is rigged for two, so let's work with that setup.

Near the aft end of the boom, there is a padeye on one side of the boom (port) and a cheek block on the starboard side. There is a large grommet in the sail along the leech, aligned vertically more or less with this hardware, about 3 1/2' above the boom. A 1/4" line runs from the padeye, up through the grommet, down through the cheek block, and forward along the boom to a cleat on the starboard side of the boom near the mast. Forward, at the same elevation as the grommet along the leech, is another grommet at the luff. there is a padeye on the port side below the gooseneck on the mast, and a cleat on the starboard side of the mast. A second 1/4" line runs from the padeye, through the grommet, down to the cleat.

To reef, you (a) head into the wind, (b) slack the halyard - from the starboard mast winch; (c) haul the luff reef line until the forward grommet is tight to the gooseneck (on some boats, this setup is replaced with a hook on or near the gooseneck); (d) tighten the halyard) (e) haul the leech reef line until the aft grommet is tight to the boom; and (f) tuck in the foot of the sail and get it at least a little organized, using sail ties or dedicated reefing ties to loosely tie up the sail to the boom.

The setup is repeated for a second set that is about 6' above the boom. That's a total of four lines. You could run them all back to the cockpit (plus the halyard) with some turning blocks and deck organizers, and I suppose also add jam cleats so that you could do it from the mast as well. I know that there are setups out there where a single line is used for both leech and luff, but I have not used one and I imagine some greater degree of friction would be involved. If I were to lead everything back to the cockpit, and were thus adding a winch on the cabintop, I would switch to a one-line system, I think.

I hope this helps.

[tartansailor]

Duncan has the correct verbal description.
Now if you refer to the Harken catalog you will see nice diagrams of both single and double line reefing, and a commentary for making your decision.
Dick

[Carter Brey]

This year I rigged my boat, which has two reefs, with single-line reefing, and will never go back; I just love it.

The key is to use ball-bearing blocks where possible: the cheek blocks on the boom (two per reef), the luff blocks that hang from the luff of the sail (one per reef), the turning block at the base of the mast, and the cabintop organizer.

Since I have two cabintop winches, each winch is shared by two lines: one by the main halyard and reef #2, the other by the jib halyard and reef #1 (I would have preferred to have the main halyard share with reef #1, but for reasons too complicated to go into here, I had to do it this way). To make this possible I installed a double rope clutch forward of each winch.

I can actually get the reefs down pretty snug even without the winches, since there is so little friction in this system.

Lots of line accumulates in taking in single line reefs. No big deal. Coil it up and hang it once you finish. I haven't found it to be a bother. In fact, I prefer to have the slack in the cockpit rather than hanging from the boom.

I like the fact that I can reach forward, pull in the topping lift, cleat it, flip open the appropriate rope clutch(es), slacken the main halyard to a premarked place, tighten the reefing line, tighten the halyard, and loosen the topping lift. It takes a few seconds and I never leave the cockpit. It makes reefing fun.

Best regards,

Carter Brey
s/v Delphine
Sabre 28 Mk II #532
City Island, NY

[Warren Kaplan]

I use a two line reefing system back to the cockpit. I can reef very quickly because I have a cabin top self tailing winch and I also have the main halyard coming back to the cockpit. I can reef the main in about 30 seconds.

I would consider Carter's single line reefing system. The friction is the limiting factor with all the turns each line has to make. But Carter feels that good low friction ball bearing blocks have made all the difference and he has tested this out under real conditions to verify that. The beauty of a single line system is that it eliminates two lines cluttering up the cockpit and it means less deck hardware to install if you rig for two reefs.

Whatever you do, lay out your system CAREFULLY to make sure all angles are correct, all lines run true, and the hardware installation doesn't interfere with anything else on deck or below in the cabin (thru bolting) BEFORE you pick up that power drill!

When the sea gets up a bit and the wind pipes up too, its nice to be able to reef from the cockpit....especially if you are solo sailing that day!

[Ron M.]

I would like to set up boat for this system. Do any of you know of a link or a resource that diagrams this arrangement ? Thanks.
________
CHRYSLER LH ENGINE

[Duncan Maio]

The key is to use ball-bearing blocks . . . the luff blocks that hang from the luff of the sail (one per reef),

Carter:

Do you have blocks mounted on the sails? At the leech and luff? What model block? Chafing protection? Attachment hardware?

[Mike C]

[quote="Carter Brey"]This year I rigged my boat, which has two reefs, with single-line reefing, and will never go back; I just love it.

Carter,

So far, I find that your method of single line together with dutch flaking will be best for single handed- cockpit operation. My motto is to always listen to experience, so, do you have any photo or diagram that you used to get your single line to work so well.

the sailmaker says the cost to change existing full batten sails to work with dutch flaking is minimun. while the sails are off is there any other adjustments that should be done to the sails themselves.????

Mike

[Carter Brey]

Carter:

Do you have blocks mounted on the sails? At the leech and luff? What model block? Chafing protection? Attachment hardware?

Duncan,

I can't get to the boat until Saturday,at which time I'll photograph everything in detail, but I have these photos on my hard drive that shows the luff block setup pretty clearly and some of the leech setup. The first picture shows the luff block for reef#1. As you see, I have it hanging from a piece of webbing, perhaps four inches in length, that goes through the mainsail cringle and which has a stainless steel ring on each end. You can see the webbing and ring for reef #2 a few feet above the block for reef #1. Obviously the block for that reef is on the opposite side of the sail.

The blocks I chose are Garhauer aluminum body, for lightness. They have ball bearing sheeves. It's very important that the shackles be fixed in position; otherwise they could flip over and you'd have an unholy tangle on your hands. Garhauer makes all it's blocks with swivel shackles which can be made fixed by tightening a tiny allen bolt.

I do not use blocks at the leech; the line simply goes through a cringle from it's attachment point at a padeye on the boom. From the leech cringle the line goes back down to a ball bearing cheek block (Garhauer, again) which sends it forward to another, identical cheek block. From there it goes aloft to the luff block that you see in the photo, and thence back down to a turning block at the mast base. If you like to work at the mast, you can terminate it there. Otherwise it's led to an organizer and back to the rope clutch and winch on the cabintop.

The second photo shows the aft end of the sail and the two reefing lines, the first rising from its padeye to the cringle, the second descending from its cringle to the aft cheek block on the boom. This would be a very standard setup even in two-line reefing or a setup that required you to bring the luff down to the gooseneck by hand. The lines look in this photo as if they come down at 90 degrees, but it's a visually misleading effect; I was very careful to make sure that they pull well aft on the leech of the main when deployed.

The white line leading along the bottom of the boom aft of everything is not a reefing line; it's one of the retractable lazy jack lines.

[img]http://pws.prserv.net/cbrey/luff-block.jpg[/img]

[img]http://pws.prserv.net/cbrey/reef-lines.jpg[/img]

[Duncan Maio]

Carter:

Very slick setup; if I ever get around to adding a cabintop winch, it's definitely on the list.