Suggestions for CD upgrade for family of 5

[Carl Thunberg]

I just got back from an extended sailing vacation. My 11-year old daughter and I sailed from Portsmouth, NH to Poorhouse Cove in John's Bay (Maine). Apart from some great quality time with my daughter and some experience at the helm for her, I discovered the CD25 is a great cruising boat for two. However, I have a family of 5.

We joined the CDSOA Maine Cruise for only one night (The Basin). For this, my entire family came along. This was the first time all five of us actually spent a night together on the boat. It worked, but we had to rig the genny over the boom as a tent and I slept on the cockpit sole. We must have been quite a site in the The Basin. Thankfully, the other CD'ers were gracious enough not to comment on the hillbilly boat next to them .

If we want to do more extended cruising (and we do), we'll have to upgrade. I had an opportunity to board Dean Abramson's CD31 Loda May and Sandra and Ross William's CD26. The 31 can sleep 5, and the 26 can't. I'm looking for other suggestions that can accomodate a family of five. We're not looking for spaciousness, just the ability to sleep 5. At this point, I can't see myself in anything other than a Cape Dory, but I'm open to other suggestions.

[Steve Laume]

Carl, you might need a bigger or smaller boat than you now imagine. If your kids are like most these days, you are approaching the ages where they either don't want to come along or they want to bring a friend. Our CD-30 does sleep 5, if you are cozy, but it handles 3 very well. The problems are more than just sleeping. A quality boom tent and some Thermo Rest backpacking pads may be a very good solution to be able to sleep a bunch of kids and still stay with a boat size that is manageable both physically and financealy. My son's friends are now more interested in sailing than he is, Steve.

[Cathy Monaghan]

Hi Carl,

It was really nice meeting you, Marcia and the kids at The Basin and again at Falmouth Foreside.

If you want to stick with a Cape Dory, when you start looking, start with the CD30MKII and work your way up through the larger boats. You'll probably want the largest one that you can afford. Anyway, the CD30 probably wouldn't meet your needs (I could be wrong) but the CD30MKII has alot more volume than her predecessor and with her quarterberth, each of your girls could have their own berth though the quarterberth quite often winds up as a dry-storage area.

You've already seen the CD31 so you know what she has to offer.

The CD32 would be another great choice but they are extremely hard to find (only 11 built). The 32 has a quarterberth and a nav station. The 30MKII and the 31 lack nav stations. So as you can see, as the boats get larger not only do you get increased interior volume (more space for you and your stuff) you'll see a few extra interior conveniences as well -- like nav stations and larger heads.

If your new boat doesn't have to be a Cape Dory, and it doesn't have to be a full-keeler, look at old Pearson, Bristol and Sabre yachts as well. Good luck with your search.


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Boyd]

Hi:

I think Caty's advice is right on.

I have had 5 adults on a MkII for 4 days. Its close but works ok. There are actually 6 possible sleeping locations on the boat. The extra tankage helps as two of them were taking showers all the time.

A 36 would be great for 5.

Boyd
s/v Tern
CD30 MkII
Fort Lauderdale, Fla.

[SeaBelle]

n/m

[SeaBelle]

Carl,

While I live in your hailport , mine is Rockland, ME. I most often sail alone or with 1 or 2 sailing buddies (my ladyfriend fears the water) but since I snore (loudly) and a boats accoustics are like the inside of a drum, I usually sleep in the cockpit out of consideration for my crew. My cockpit cushions died of old age several years ago but I'm comfortable with a backpacker's pad. I don't mind a bit of morning dew but when it rains, I move below.

We usually spend almost all our waking time in the cockpit. We enjoy dining in the cockpit and one of my next projects is to design and build a portable base to hold my salon table in the cockpit. There's room for a real table in the cockpit when you can lift the tiller out of the way. Then, when the hook is set, we can move it to the cockpit in under 5 minutes. After a long day in the sun and sea, when it's dark we retired geezers retire.

You may want to think about how often you'll have 5 aboard and how often you will not be comfortable in the cockpit.

Having said that my 28 sleeps 5 - the port settee pulls out to a 'double'. It cantilevers out held by cleats fore and aft however, I'd use some supports amidships before I'd use it. Others on other small boats have fashioned a filler that spans the area between the port and starboard settees.

When you step beyond the 28 the price increases quite a bit and I'd be sure I routinely needed a bigger boat before I took that step.

5 on a sailboat for more than a daysail is a crowd and we must be prepared in adapt if we are to enjoy ourselves. When it pours for several days we must really adapt. Earlier this year I crewed a Saber 45 from St. John, USVI to Kittery, ME via Bermuda - 2 1 week legs. We had 4 aboard with 2 on the overnight watches so we seldom had more than 2 sleeping at once. Although she 'slept 6 or 7', the v-berth was storage and we hot-bunked it. Storage for our duffle was a bigger problem than bunks. Even in this gigantic boat we needed to deal with space issues and our waking hours were spent in the cockpit.

Sail on

[Russell]

5 will sure be a crowd, I guess I am spoiled, one person on a CD36, I couldnt imagine sharing it with more then one other person (if even that). But its my home, so different scenerio.

Basicly any of the CDs that have a V berth, quarterberth and 2 settees will work for sleeping 5 each in an actual bunk (assuming the two adults can fit okay in the v-berth together or on a newer larger CD the pull out double in the L-settee). So really anything from a CD30 on up could fit the bill. The longer your trips together the larger I would consider though, reduces the chance of mutinies.

Now I do not know your budget, but I will assume that a CD40 is not in your visions. Given your looking at CDs in the low 30s size range, and you have a family of 5 with whom you intend to cruise together with, I hate to say it, but I myself would recommend looking at something other then a Cape Dory. A more modern style production cruiser that has an aft cabin, like catalinas and jeneaus and such. You will get a lot more space for your money then you will with a Cape Dory. Sure it wont be the quality level or nearly as pretty as a CD, but the most important thing is enjoying your time sailing and cruising, and if the trade off is you have to buy a less pretty and well built boat, well, I would recommend it, I think a family of 5 would just enjoy their time on the water more in a boat like that. Having fun in a modern production boat is better then not having fun in a cape dory. A sort of comprimise would be something like an Island Packet, a modern production boat that they did their best to make look traditional (sorely failed I think though), but I have friends with an IP32 and it has a good aft cabin two adults can sleep in, as well as a good v berth and 2 settees, would be very comfortable, but IPs are expensive, you could get a CD36 for the same price as an IP32(and have a better boat).

Good luck in your search.

[Joe CD MS 300]

Carl,

I sailed with 3 boys and the wife on a variety of chartered boats over 20+ years before buying Quest. The youngest started out in the cockpit of a chartered CD 30 strapped down in a car seat. The 30 was OK when they were young but it would have gotten small fast. One thing that I have managed to do over the years is keep them interested in sailing, but it comes with a price in compromising somewhat to their likes and dislikes. I don't have daughters but based on what I know of my nieces, privacy might be more of an issue with girls.

Other good sailing and far roomier makes that I have chartered and liked are Sabres (ask Carter B), Ericksons, Island Packets (also a full keel), a Niagara (manufacturer I think was Hinterholler who made the Whitby 42).

The boat that I came closest to buying that wasn't a Cape Dory was a Scanmar 33. Scanmars are or were made in Sweden and were sold here in the US for a short period of time. They are a very solidly built boat with a moderate fin keel and a skeg mounted rudder with a fractional rig. Really a great sailing and well balanced boat. Always felt safe and under control no matter what the weather. Probably chartered Scanmar 30 & 35'5s about 10-12 times (the charter company was a dealer). Also they are very roomy for their size with a aft double cabin with a pocket door. Not much exterior teak, just the cockpit seats but a real nice cherry colored mahagony interior. As they are not a real well known brand they probably don't command a premium price but from what I recall they are well made.

[bill2]

Carl

I'm thinking that there's two answrs to your question. The first is easy - you have the money you go out and buy as big a boat as you need. Of course that entails higher fees to prep, maintenance, storage, repair/replacement etc etc - and don't forget the extra time to perform comparable jobs on a larger boat - all worth it if you have the "troops" behind you.

The second is more of a what can I do to get the most number of berths in a manageable hull. In the old(er) days the mfg's used to have what I'll call pipe berths as options. They'd take a U shaped block of wood and put two fore and two aft - usually over the main cabin settees, then with two pipes and cloth between them ( picture a cot like affair using pipes inserted into the U shaped block ) gave you one or two more berths with little to no space taken up while under way. You can then have "indoor" sleeping accommodations that you add only when needed and retain the cost and ease of handling of a smaller boat - maybe even staying with your CD 25 ( ? ) . The U shaped blocks were usually as much of a mystery to guests as all the other "nautical" equipment they see on your boat.

Of course I also have seen CD 28's ( like Jack of Sea Belle above ) that have a double port side main cabin settee besides the other three berths should you manage to swing the cost and handling of a CD 28.

Good Luck

[chase]

Carl,

My family of four does well in the 30. My daughter is 11, son is 7. There is definitely room for five, technically, but as Russell said, it is all relative. I'm also accustomed to singlehanding or sailing with one buddy, which works really well space-wise. If you don't cruise for longer periods of time the 30 could work well for you and your family.

Tankage can be an issue coastal cruising, but with careful planning and regular pumpout it is no big deal. 60 gallons of fresh water is good for us for a week in the summer with daily sunshowers and extra potable stash. In the colder months I use less than 30 gallons over 2 weeks singlehanding.

In good weather, the cockpit really opens up the possibilities. I'm 5'11”, 215 and I can sleep well out there (when the darn bugs ain’t bitin’). Jack's 28 is near identical to my 30, I guess.

The 30 is really comfortable for singlehanding, too, if that's part of your program. I mean sailhandling, etc, not belowdecks.

Best of all, they are plentiful. You ought to be able to find one in good condition for mid-20's or less.

Best,

Chase

[Neil Gordon]

... is easy. Going down is harder.

You could do it with a CD28. Two in the v-berth, one on the stbd side settee and two on the pullout port side settee. Everyone has access to the head (except the furthest port side settee person) and there's room to walk the length of the boat without stepping on anyone. So five for sleeping works, five for eating below works, five for sailing in the cockpit works.

There's never ending discussion here about where the two feet between the 28 and 30 can be found, so either would be about the same in terms of living on board.

What length passages are you talking about? A week at sea vs. day sails between ports makes a huge difference in how large a boat you might need.

[Judith]

I can't resist a plug for the 270 (but then, we're still in honeymoon phase with ours). We looked at a CD27 and CD28, but the accommodations on this one made our eyes light up. It's surprisingly roomy: in fact, we've looked at slightly bigger Cape Doreys, in the 30' range, and felt the difference was quite subtle.

We routinely sleep 4 messy people, and the Cape Dory literature says it sleeps up to 6. Five would be pretty do-able, I should think, particularly if they're somewhat tidy There's the V-berth (2), "double" pull-out settee (2, if you're close friends), port settee (1) and quarter-berth (1--if you're not piling everything else in there).

Other pluses: full keel plus centerboard means draft is either about 3'. . .or up to 7'; head, shower, vanity all close off into one separate area, accessible from V-berth or settee area; offset dining table means you can have half of it up and still have clear passage from companionway to V-berth. . .

This should all be weighed, of course, against the fact that this is my first boat. But I'm loving it

Personally, I think you weigh all the factors possible, make the best choice that occurs to you, and it's perfect! And then you learn from there.

Cheers,
Judith

[Chris Reinke]

Carl - I have a CD330 on Cape Cod for another 2 weeks you are welcome to come see....and go for a sail if the rain ever stops! After that, we are sailing back to her winter home in New York for the fall foliage. Just drop me a note if you want to stop by.

[Carl Thunberg]

You've all been very helpful and I will certainly take what you've all said to heart. By chance, I've seen a couple CD28s for sale recently. One is at Robinhood and looks to be in pretty good shape. It's time I started poking around in some.

Chris, that's a very tempting offer and I very well may take you up on it. This weekend we're making the return trip from Poorhouse Cove back to Portsmouth (2-3 days), but the following weekend is a possibility.

In answer to some of your questions, at this point in my life with a young family (not to mention a job), extended cruising is out of the question. We're really looking at one to two weeks at a stretch, with the remainder of the season being taken with day sails. With that in mind, plus the time, effort and expense of a larger boat, I'd like to stick with as small a boat as I can. That's what attracted me to a CD25 in the first place.

Thanks again. Carl

[rtbates]

here's a story of a different kind of dory that had 5 people aboard.
Talk about cozy.
http://www.towndock.net/shipping/2004_0 ... chive.html

good luck with your search.