Beta Marine 20HP three cyl
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Domenic
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Nov 1st, '05, 16:43
- Location: Cape Dory 10 Hull 1278 & Moody 45ac Janique III Liberty Landing Marina. Jersey City.
Beta Marine 20HP three cyl
I just need more power in my CP27. Anybody out there have the 20hp Beta Marine. Also , a new 12x9 prop. I do about three knots under power. How many knots will I do with a 20? Any advice would be appreciated. Thanks , Domenic
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Bill Goldsmith
- Posts: 625
- Joined: Feb 7th, '05, 08:47
- Location: CD 32
If you can fit that engine into the CD27, you will meet or even exceed the theoretical maximum hull speed.
On my prior CD, a CD27, a former owner repowered with a Yanmar 2GM20(F) and that baby really pushed that boat. The extra HP really comes in handy if you are bucking a headwind and a chop.
The Yanmar was a 2 cylinder and was not a 20hp--it was rated at 16 Hp at 3400rpm, and 18 hp at 3600 rpm.
The Beta BD722 is a 3 cylinder, rated at 18.5 hp at 3000 rpm and 20 hp at 3600 rpm. I think it is too much engine for a CD27.
I would probably confine my shopping to a 2 cylinder engine, partly due to space considerations, but mostly because you'll underutilize the power of a bigger engine, and that's not supposed to be good for a diesel.
The most powerful 2 cylinder engine offered by Beta is the BZ602 which is 14--16 hp--probably a pretty good match for the CD27. I would also look at the Yanmar 2YM20(f) engine--the newer version of the 2GM20(F). It has a bit more hp than the Beta and also has the service points all in the front like the Betas.
On my prior CD, a CD27, a former owner repowered with a Yanmar 2GM20(F) and that baby really pushed that boat. The extra HP really comes in handy if you are bucking a headwind and a chop.
The Yanmar was a 2 cylinder and was not a 20hp--it was rated at 16 Hp at 3400rpm, and 18 hp at 3600 rpm.
The Beta BD722 is a 3 cylinder, rated at 18.5 hp at 3000 rpm and 20 hp at 3600 rpm. I think it is too much engine for a CD27.
I would probably confine my shopping to a 2 cylinder engine, partly due to space considerations, but mostly because you'll underutilize the power of a bigger engine, and that's not supposed to be good for a diesel.
The most powerful 2 cylinder engine offered by Beta is the BZ602 which is 14--16 hp--probably a pretty good match for the CD27. I would also look at the Yanmar 2YM20(f) engine--the newer version of the 2GM20(F). It has a bit more hp than the Beta and also has the service points all in the front like the Betas.
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Domenic
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Nov 1st, '05, 16:43
- Location: Cape Dory 10 Hull 1278 & Moody 45ac Janique III Liberty Landing Marina. Jersey City.
Thank You ,Bill
Bill, It will cost me about $14,000.00 to repower my CD27. That is why I do not want to make a mistake and have regrets with my new engine. Thanks for the help, Domenic
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Oswego John
- Posts: 3535
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 20:42
- Location: '66 Typhoon "Grace", Hull # 42, Schooner "Ontario", CD 85D Hull #1
Repowering A CD 27
Hi Domenic,
After reading your post, it raised some questions in my mind. Doing three knots under power seems a bit slow for a boat and motor your size.
I am curious as to what RPMs is the engine turning to get three KPH? You are probably aware of the fact that an engine's HP is directly related to it's RPM curve. If it isn't turning at about 80% near rated max, it won't produce the punch that it might otherwise produce.
I have the thought that maybe your prop might be too agressive for your engine and it is unable to reach higher RPMs and thereby sacrificing potential HP
With $14,000 in mind, maybe it would be beneficial to have the prop checked out, as well as the efficiency of the engine, ie compression leak(s), restriction in the injectors, or fuel filters, etc. Perhaps something as simple as excessive hull drag.
Look past the obvious
Good luck,
O J
After reading your post, it raised some questions in my mind. Doing three knots under power seems a bit slow for a boat and motor your size.
I am curious as to what RPMs is the engine turning to get three KPH? You are probably aware of the fact that an engine's HP is directly related to it's RPM curve. If it isn't turning at about 80% near rated max, it won't produce the punch that it might otherwise produce.
I have the thought that maybe your prop might be too agressive for your engine and it is unable to reach higher RPMs and thereby sacrificing potential HP
With $14,000 in mind, maybe it would be beneficial to have the prop checked out, as well as the efficiency of the engine, ie compression leak(s), restriction in the injectors, or fuel filters, etc. Perhaps something as simple as excessive hull drag.
Look past the obvious
Good luck,
O J
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Mike Raehl
- Posts: 95
- Joined: Feb 7th, '05, 23:18
- Location: CD27 #151, Roberta Jane III, Belmont Harbor, Chicago
Domenic,
In support of the earlier post, suggest that you check all other possibilities before committing to a $14,000 repower project.
As a point of reference, I have the YSM8R engine in my CD27. Last Sunday we dropped all sail prior to entering the harbor at which point we were head into an 18 knot wind and five to six foot waves. The boat managed 4.5 to 5 knots in these conditions. I have a two blade prop and, of course, there is little current and no tide in Lake Michigan.
A couple years ago, I considered repowering but decided, out of stubbornness and / or cheapness, to work with what I have. After the yard tested and confirmed good cylinder compression, I rebuilt the fuel injector (Mack Boring, about $80): emptied and cleaned the fuel tank (yard, about $450); all new fuel (truck stop, $36); fuel cetane additive (Mack Boring, about $8); and, new fuel filters (yard, too much). Performance improvement and noise reduction were dramatic.
Good luck in your quest.
In support of the earlier post, suggest that you check all other possibilities before committing to a $14,000 repower project.
As a point of reference, I have the YSM8R engine in my CD27. Last Sunday we dropped all sail prior to entering the harbor at which point we were head into an 18 knot wind and five to six foot waves. The boat managed 4.5 to 5 knots in these conditions. I have a two blade prop and, of course, there is little current and no tide in Lake Michigan.
A couple years ago, I considered repowering but decided, out of stubbornness and / or cheapness, to work with what I have. After the yard tested and confirmed good cylinder compression, I rebuilt the fuel injector (Mack Boring, about $80): emptied and cleaned the fuel tank (yard, about $450); all new fuel (truck stop, $36); fuel cetane additive (Mack Boring, about $8); and, new fuel filters (yard, too much). Performance improvement and noise reduction were dramatic.
Good luck in your quest.
Mike Raehl
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Louis Gerhardy
- Posts: 3
- Joined: Apr 10th, '06, 13:48
- Location: Cape Dory 30, Solace, Marina Bay, Richmond, CA
BD722 engine
Hi Domenic
I recently replaced a Volvo MD7A with a BD722 in my Cape Dory 30 (10,000 lb. boat) and subsequently experimented with props. I am satisfied with the repowering and have increased speed substantially under all conditions.
Based on my recent experience with HP, RPM's, Prop. aperture, prop diameter, prop. pitch, cavitation noise, & prop walk I would begin by determining what the largest prop would be that would fit in the aperture of your boat. The prop. needs to have sufficient clearance between the blade tips and hull to minimize cavitation related noise. I would then try to get an optimum combination of pitch in the prop. , transmission gear ratio and engine HP to achieve theoretical hull speed at the lowest possible prop RPM's (the engine should operate at about 80% of maximum RPM at crusing speed) Most of the newer engines maximum RPM's are much higher than the original engines and they develop their power at relatively high RPM's. This usually means that your prop is going to rotate at much higher speeds and will create a lot of cavitation or water "slinging" noise therefor I suggest maximum prop. diameter & pitch with more transmission reduction to keep prop rpm's down.
My initial sea trials with the new engine, new transmission with 2 to 1 reduction and a 13 x 9 RH Michigan Sailer prop (with pitch reduced to 8) delivered the boat speed I was looking for, the proper maximum rpms on the engine (just under 3600) but also
caused a lot of cavitation noise. I eventually improved the noise, speed, heavy weather thrust, prop walk and stopping ability by changing to a 4 bladed Vari Prop. I now have what I was attempting to achieve but at a substantial price. If I was to change anything I would select a transmission with a greater reduction to the prop shaft and gone with more pitch in the prop.
It is quite a game we play to get another knot or two.
Good luck with your re-powering
I recently replaced a Volvo MD7A with a BD722 in my Cape Dory 30 (10,000 lb. boat) and subsequently experimented with props. I am satisfied with the repowering and have increased speed substantially under all conditions.
Based on my recent experience with HP, RPM's, Prop. aperture, prop diameter, prop. pitch, cavitation noise, & prop walk I would begin by determining what the largest prop would be that would fit in the aperture of your boat. The prop. needs to have sufficient clearance between the blade tips and hull to minimize cavitation related noise. I would then try to get an optimum combination of pitch in the prop. , transmission gear ratio and engine HP to achieve theoretical hull speed at the lowest possible prop RPM's (the engine should operate at about 80% of maximum RPM at crusing speed) Most of the newer engines maximum RPM's are much higher than the original engines and they develop their power at relatively high RPM's. This usually means that your prop is going to rotate at much higher speeds and will create a lot of cavitation or water "slinging" noise therefor I suggest maximum prop. diameter & pitch with more transmission reduction to keep prop rpm's down.
My initial sea trials with the new engine, new transmission with 2 to 1 reduction and a 13 x 9 RH Michigan Sailer prop (with pitch reduced to 8) delivered the boat speed I was looking for, the proper maximum rpms on the engine (just under 3600) but also
caused a lot of cavitation noise. I eventually improved the noise, speed, heavy weather thrust, prop walk and stopping ability by changing to a 4 bladed Vari Prop. I now have what I was attempting to achieve but at a substantial price. If I was to change anything I would select a transmission with a greater reduction to the prop shaft and gone with more pitch in the prop.
It is quite a game we play to get another knot or two.
Good luck with your re-powering
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Paul Grecay
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Oct 13th, '05, 06:57
- Location: CD 28 1976 "Peapod"
Lewes, Delaware
Be sure you need to repower before committing
I just repowered my CD 28 with the Beta Marine 722. It is smoother and pushes the boat at hull speed. I needed to repower because the old Volvo Md2b was pretty well shot. But before you commit to repowering, be sure you need to do it. The fact that your boat is going only three knots could be attributed to other things. Is the engine turning at the proper rpm? In the case of my old md2b, I usually ran it around 2,000 to 2,200 rpm. Since the transmission was 1:1, that would also have been the speed of the prop. I had a three blade prop which was pitched to six I think. My problem was simply that the engine was no good because it had repeatedly filled its crankcase with seawater. The Beta Marine is much smaller and I would guess that it should fit in the 27....it is a nice little engine and while it has less hp then the md2b, it does a better job of pushing the boat.
What is the condition of your current engine? Does it run well and reach proper rpm? If the answer to these two questions is yes then you must question whether there is any reason to replace it. So make sure you are getting the rpm you need....then make sure you have the proper propellor. If the prop pitch is correct, and the blades run true, and it is turning at the proper rate, then it should push the boat at near hull speed. Loss of power from poor alignment would impede the rotation of the prop and show up on your tachometer. Also, check a few other things. Is your hull fouled excessively with marine growth? Are you dragging something that you don't know about? (I once found my boat doing less than half its speed...took me an hour to discover that a lobster pot line had snagged at the rudder shoe and I was motoring with a long line and broken lobster pot!).
Assuming that your engine is the culprit, I think you would be really happy with the Beta Marine. I installed mine by myself and I am very happy with the job. It also gave me a chance to replace the filthy, leaking 30 year old fuel tanks, cutless bearing, prop, shaft, exhaust system and stuffing box. With doing all my own work I would estimate that I paid about $9,000. But now I trust everything and enjoy the luxury of a safe and reliable power train.
Post more information about your current engine....that way people can give you a much more informed analysis.
Paul
What is the condition of your current engine? Does it run well and reach proper rpm? If the answer to these two questions is yes then you must question whether there is any reason to replace it. So make sure you are getting the rpm you need....then make sure you have the proper propellor. If the prop pitch is correct, and the blades run true, and it is turning at the proper rate, then it should push the boat at near hull speed. Loss of power from poor alignment would impede the rotation of the prop and show up on your tachometer. Also, check a few other things. Is your hull fouled excessively with marine growth? Are you dragging something that you don't know about? (I once found my boat doing less than half its speed...took me an hour to discover that a lobster pot line had snagged at the rudder shoe and I was motoring with a long line and broken lobster pot!).
Assuming that your engine is the culprit, I think you would be really happy with the Beta Marine. I installed mine by myself and I am very happy with the job. It also gave me a chance to replace the filthy, leaking 30 year old fuel tanks, cutless bearing, prop, shaft, exhaust system and stuffing box. With doing all my own work I would estimate that I paid about $9,000. But now I trust everything and enjoy the luxury of a safe and reliable power train.
Post more information about your current engine....that way people can give you a much more informed analysis.
Paul
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Dick Barthel
- Posts: 901
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 10:29
- Location: Dream Weaver, CD25D, Noank, CT
Beta 13.5
Domenic,
Our boatyard which is a Beta dealer puts the 13.5 in the CD27 and I think they use a three blade 12x7. They just put one in a 27 this winter. The owner is an occasional board user and probably hasn't seen your thread. If you'd like, send me an email and I will send you his contact information.
Dick
Our boatyard which is a Beta dealer puts the 13.5 in the CD27 and I think they use a three blade 12x7. They just put one in a 27 this winter. The owner is an occasional board user and probably hasn't seen your thread. If you'd like, send me an email and I will send you his contact information.
Dick
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Ben Thomas
- Posts: 215
- Joined: Feb 5th, '05, 12:17
- Location: 82 CD30 Milagro Hull #248
Beta
Remember if you start shopping for engines I have been offering 15% off on engines and options to all board members. (I'm the Beta dealer in Oregon) Cathy has me listed in "where to look" @ alternative manufacturers of marine equipment. I can drop ship out of North Carolina, no freight on eastern seaboard.
Best Regards, Ben Thomas Oregon Marine Industries CD30 #248
PS. Hopefully I have not offended anyone here by mentioning this, my intention is to save fellow CDers some money.
Ben
Best Regards, Ben Thomas Oregon Marine Industries CD30 #248
PS. Hopefully I have not offended anyone here by mentioning this, my intention is to save fellow CDers some money.
Ben
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Kurt
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Feb 8th, '05, 11:12
- Location: 27' Cape Dory (Alerion),
9' Dyer,
Grosse Pointe, Michigan
My experience with a Beta BZ482
I repowered my 27 three years ago with a Beta BZ482 13.5 hp 2 cylinder. I'm turning a 12x9 Michigan Wheel 3 blade sailor prop which gives me about 3400 rpm WOT throttle at 6+ knots. The stern squats at that speed. The engine pushes the boat exceedingly well and is very smooth. The only advantage to a 3 cylinder would be a slightly smoother idle....which is not much of a benefit. I vote for the BZ482 because it FITS the existing factory engine bed so well.
bz 482
I recently installed the Beta BZ 482 13.5 HP enngine in my CD 30 to replace the deceased Universal 14 HP. ( I did buy it through Ben thomas. I recommend you do the same.) The Beta is on a similar (but newer) Kubota block as the Universal was, so it had the same footprint as the old Universal. This was an advantage in that very little bed modification was required. It is a fine engine and pushes the boat at hull speed. I don't feel the need of more power, even though there are those rare occasions when more would be better, i.e., bucking strong tide and wind. Nevertheless, I always make headway and haven't been disappointed. I think more power would be wasted on my boat and certainly on the CD 27.
Will
Jambalaya.
CD 30
Will
Jambalaya.
CD 30
Will Parker
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Kurt
- Posts: 188
- Joined: Feb 8th, '05, 11:12
- Location: 27' Cape Dory (Alerion),
9' Dyer,
Grosse Pointe, Michigan
BZ482 shallow crankcase option
I ordered my bz482 with the shallow crankcase sump which offers more installation clearance below the engine. This is not at all necessary and I regret it. There's loads of clearance under my engine. I would much rather have the extra oil capacity offered by the standard deeper crankcase. Live and learn
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Paul Grecay
- Posts: 105
- Joined: Oct 13th, '05, 06:57
- Location: CD 28 1976 "Peapod"
Lewes, Delaware
I did the same thing
I also got the shallow oil pan option for my cd 28 when I just repowered with the Beta Marine 722. But not to worry....it just means that the oil should be changed a wee bit more frequently....it has no effect at all on the lubricating capability or cooling. With the handy little oil pump-out pump on these engines, changing the oil will be a pleasure!
Re: My experience with a Beta BZ482
Kurt wrote:I repowered my 27 three years ago with a Beta BZ482 13.5 hp 2 cylinder. I'm turning a 12x9 Michigan Wheel 3 blade sailor prop which gives me about 3400 rpm WOT throttle at 6+ knots. The stern squats at that speed. The engine pushes the boat exceedingly well and is very smooth. The only advantage to a 3 cylinder would be a slightly smoother idle....which is not much of a benefit. I vote for the BZ482 because it FITS the existing factory engine bed so well.
One of the things I like about the YSM 8 is the low profile of a horizontal engine. I can get over the top to get to the transmission and stuffing box. I'm not sure I'm small enough to go through the lockers. Does anyone have any comments on this aspect of repowering a CD27?
Bob Cutler
1981 CD27 (sold)
Everett, WA
1981 CD27 (sold)
Everett, WA