CD28 Modification of the door to the head.

[Rperlot]

I've always been quite annoyed by the bulkhead mounted door going into my head. It swings on a port side hinge. The way it is set up, it is nearly impossible to get the door open, or closed if you are on the foreward side of the bulkhead, unless you step into the v-berth cabin. Of course, in the middle of the night, if someone is in the v-berth with their door closed, forget it.

The v-berth door is a bi-fold. This seems to work very well in not taking up so much space. I thought, hey, why not the other door? They seem to be the same size.

Anyone have any ideas as to why CD didn't make both doors bi-fold?

Any reason why I shouldn't? Another option is to put the hinges on the starboard side as their is more room to stand in the head on the port side. But the sole comes up on the starboard side within the swing of the door. I figured I could cut an 8" panel off the bottom of the door and put it on spring hinges. This would allow the "flap" to hit the stopper and swing up, still allowing the door to swing completely open.

Any thoughts?

RPerlot

[Neil Gordon]

Anyone have any ideas as to why CD didn't make both doors bi-fold?

Neither of my doors is bi-fold and I agree, with the v-berth door closed you need to diet before trying to get to the head. Both doors swing into the head area... the after door on port side hinges (swings forward) and the forward door on stbd side hinges (swings aft). The forward door, when open, also blocks access to the hanging locker. I've learned to live with it and probably prefer having "real" doors. (OTOH, I don't have the living space divided up where anyone needs privacy in a shared head.)

[VidaliA]

I removed the bifold door to the v-berth and it made things a whole lot easier. Doing so I always give the woman guests the v-berth for privacy. Not that there is an privacy on a 28' sailboat..

[Rperlot]

Yesterday I took off my solid door and move the bifold, v-berth door to the aftward bulkhead. This makes a huge improvement for getting the right amount of room.

Since the bi-fold needs to fit into a dado of sorts to keep from swinging open as a solid door should, I need to add a 1/2" teak to the bulkhead to keep the door shut.

I'm going to modify the solid door to a bi-fold and then put it back onto the v-berth.

I'm not happy with the latching mechanism for the bifold. It isn't obvious to someone unfamiliar with my boat. So they may try to put too much pressure on the door, trying to figure out how to open it. So I'll have to come up with a better solution that is as obvious as a doorknob on the solid door.

[Angela and Tom]

Sounds like a good solution. Any photos of your completed (or in-the-works) project would be greatly appreciated!

[SPIBob]

Afew years ago I removed both doors from my 28. In their place I have sliding curtains made of Sunbrella. I would never go back to the two door arrangement. Maybe on a much bigger boat but not on a 28.

[Stan W.]

Like Neil, I have two solid doors. In my case, they are both hinged on the port side and they both open forward. This means you cannot open the forward door with the v-berth insert in place, which makes the v-berth insert almost useless. There is just enough room to open a bi-fold door into the v-berth and that is how newer CD 28s were equipped. But what keeps the bi-fold doors from folding open when you want to keep them shut? Do they ride in tracks like a bi-fold closet door in a house? Are they somehow locked at the hinge? Do they somehow fasten to the jamb? I would love to see pictures showing how the bi-fold doors used on later models were installed at the factory.

Thanks.

[Angela and Tom]

We've only had our 28 for a short time. I'm much shorter and smaller than Tom and, given the trade-offs, I think our setup is well designed and it works fine for me. But Tom is 6' 2" and has wrestled with the same issues discussed above.

Stan,
On our '83, the forward door is a bifold that folds into the head area on the starboard side against the sink (I think earlier boats have a hanging locker on that side). When the door is folded open, there's a hook on the panel attached to the hinge that attaches to an eye on the wall between the v-berth and head to hold it open. There's also a velcro-like thingie at the top of the doors that holds the two panels folded closed like a book. It's a b**** to pry apart when you want to close it flat -- holds it so tight that I'm afraid I'll actually split the panels forcing it open.

To hold the door closed (folded flat) theres a sliding bolt at the top that runs through a channel hole bored through both doors. It functions like a mortice and tenon, holding both doors flat and in place. Unfortunately on our boat, someone didn't realize that they needed to unbolt it to open the doors and tried to force it open. So the wood at the top of the doors is split. The channel doesn't line up with the bolt and slide smoothly anymore. I think it's an elegant solution and hope it's not too hard fix it and make it work again.

The door between the salon and the head is a single door on a hinge that opens against the toilet on the port side. I have no problem with it. But Tom is much bulkier and it would probably work better for him if the door opened into the salon instead.

I'll take some pictures for everyone to see, but you can come out anytime and take a look at it.

A

[Rperlot]

I can't believe they'd even think to open the door into the v-berth.

My CD is set up just like Angela describe. I too have the velcro thingy and have the same fears. I also have the same fears about the latch, though not realized. Hence, my concern about finding a new solution for the latch. Acually, my friends CD330 V-berth door came "unvelcroed" under way and in all the bangin around, managed to split the door out the same way. I would think using a longer brass tube in a reamed out hole would offer some displacement of the force.

I intend to figure out how to be less reliant on the velcro thingy by having a weighted latch to catch the door when closed. The latch would have to be gravity or spring fed and tapered as not to need additional help and the default is to shut and hold the door. So even if the door is jiggy underway, the second it slams open, it stays. I'll figure something out and post pictures.

I have often wondered about the loosy-goosy way the bifold flops around. The prevents a reliable, self-setting clasp. It just can't believe it never came to mind that tracks are used to prevent this. I think I'll look into this. The limiting factor will be that there is a huge gap between the top of the door and the header. I'd have to close this off or do something less than elegant to provide a track. Something that the taller of us might gouge a forehead on. Maybe a flush track on the bottom?

I've done my "point of no return" move and ripped the solid door in half. I cut out a tenon on each side to create my "4th side" of the frame for each of the now, 3 sided frame and panel halves. I got sticker shock yesterday at my local, S4S supplier of teak. $174 for a 9" x 10' board. I don't think so. I'm going to my rough cut lumber shop later this week so get some S2S plantation grown teak for $8bf. It's just one side of a frame of my frame and panel door. No wonder the Burmese call teak "brown gold".

I'll post pictures when I get the project done.

RJP.

[Angela and Tom]

RJ,

Before you get too gung-ho about the track, consider a few things.

Without the track, there is a lot of flexibility in the way you can move the door around. With the top fixed on a track, you’ll always have to have the door fully extended and closed to use the sink. With the top free and not fixed to a track, you can keep the door folded in half and easily swing it out of the way of the sink. Doesn’t sound like a big deal, but the half-a-door opening to the v-berth is much less confining and practical—every little bit counts in such tight quarters.

The doorway into the v-berth is already very narrow. Without the track, you can open up the door to be flat, and swing the whole thing into the head like a regular door to give you more room to get through opening. Once it’s fixed, you narrow down the door-way by the double door thickness plus some extra space taken up by the hinge tolerance. Again, every little bit…

And the track itself will cut down the height of the doorway. The hook on the back of our door keeps it from flopping around “loosy-goosey. But it does need a little adjusting/tweaking. Or what about a bungy strung on eyes between the door and the bulkhead like the big solid door has?

I suppose you can rig it to allow the top to be popped out of the track when needed, but based on the bi-fold doors that I have at home, that’s a huge pain. I’ve actually freed up all my bi-fold doors at home to function like the door on the boat. I’ve had them that way for years and found it works well on terra firma. So far it’s also working on the limited time we’ve been on the water—but give me a few months and I might be singing a different song.

Your idea about a longer brass tube is a good one. As to the unclear way the bolting system functions: since you’re creating your hinged door somewhat from scratch, you could make the bolting mechanism visible from the front and back (maybe make the whole bolting system external—I’ve seen some nice brass systems at the hardware store) so that it’s obvious that you have to unbolt the door to open it flat. I’ve considered hanging a tassel or something from the bolt as a reminder. Or a nice little sign. Pull here dummy?

Well, it’s all food for thought. Obviously, in the end, and given all the trade-offs, what works for us will be different than what works for you. Glad you’re ahead of us on this project! You’ll work out the bugs and we’ll steal you ideas! Keep us posted.

A

[gates_cliff]

I can't believe they'd even think to open the door into the v-berth.

My CD is set up just like Angela describe. I too have the velcro thingy and have the same fears. I also have the same fears about the latch, though not realized. Hence, my concern about finding a new solution for the latch. Acually, my friends CD330 V-berth door came "unvelcroed" under way and in all the bangin around, managed to split the door out the same way. I would think using a longer brass tube in a reamed out hole would offer some displacement of the force.

I intend to figure out how to be less reliant on the velcro thingy by having a weighted latch to catch the door when closed. The latch would have to be gravity or spring fed and tapered as not to need additional help and the default is to shut and hold the door. So even if the door is jiggy underway, the second it slams open, it stays. I'll figure something out and post pictures.

I have often wondered about the loosy-goosy way the bifold flops around. The prevents a reliable, self-setting clasp. It just can't believe it never came to mind that tracks are used to prevent this. I think I'll look into this. The limiting factor will be that there is a huge gap between the top of the door and the header. I'd have to close this off or do something less than elegant to provide a track. Something that the taller of us might gouge a forehead on. Maybe a flush track on the bottom?

I've done my "point of no return" move and ripped the solid door in half. I cut out a tenon on each side to create my "4th side" of the frame for each of the now, 3 sided frame and panel halves. I got sticker shock yesterday at my local, S4S supplier of teak. $174 for a 9" x 10' board. I don't think so. I'm going to my rough cut lumber shop later this week so get some S2S plantation grown teak for $8bf. It's just one side of a frame of my frame and panel door. No wonder the Burmese call teak "brown gold".

I'll post pictures when I get the project done.

RJP.

Resurrecting this thread. I have the bifold door set up also. The "Velcro thingy" was so hard to separate that the little teak block to which it was attached split. I currently have it tied off so it doesn't bang around. I was thinking about using a magnetic latch, of course have to replace the little teak block. Wondering if anyone else has tried this solution.

[tjr818]

One of the first "improvements" we made to Slainte was to remove the door to the V-birth. We installed twin curtains in the doorway in the bulkhead the curtains are suspended on a bungee cord "curtain rod", by unhooking the bingo from the hook on the starboard end the curtain can be rotated to close off the head. This is the position that the curtain is in most of the time, that allows a nice breeze from the forward hatch through the cabin. If someone wants to use the head they unhook the curtain from the forward hook and return it to the hook on the starboard side of the doorway. The curtain stops about 6" above the cabin sole and the top of the curtain is down about 6" from the overhead to provide air circulation.
The nice teak door is in storage at home. No more banging noises.

[mgphl52]

Tim,

What a great idea! When we got KAYLA back (skipping long story) both doors had been removed and delivered later. Since I haven't re-hung them yet, I now a better solution!

Thanks!!!!