Much to my surprise, the last two times I've gone out on Bandolera II (CD-33) I have noticed that the little bit of sea water that accumulates in the engine sump due to the drip of the stuffing box now has a pink edge to it! I put my finger in it and it did not smell like fuel, so the other red liquid in the boat is the transmission oil! Just today I got myself in there (I get in thru the port cockpit locker, and can sit in the space right behind the engine) and ran my hand under the transmission box, and it came out wet and red! Seems to me there has to be a leak somewhere in there. But the dipstick that screws into the little hole where you put in the oil is on the top part of the box, and the leak is not coming from there. Sugestions anybody? Already the comments in my dock were that the gasket that goes from the transmission to the engine may be the culprit. Has anybody replaced this gasket and is it a big deal? Can this be done with the boat in the water? By just looking at it, I can not see where this gasket is located. Since it is not a lot of liquid coming out, I am not panicking, but now I guess I'll have to check the amount of transm. oil that is still in there to make sure there is enough!
I still took the boat out today , although I only sailed with the rollerfurler genny since we had some stormy forecasts -I am now writing this from the boat, in the marina, in pouring rain). made it back just in time! Also noticed the shaft -mine is bronze- is encrusted with dry salt, which I scraped out and then put some WD40 to it... is stainless a better choice? When it's not one thing it's another! I cleaned and dried out the sump for now, and am watching it to see if I can discover a pattern. Thanks for the help.
Zeida
zcecil@ibm.net
Transmissionleaking!
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Tom
Re: Transmissionleaking!
Zeidazeida wrote: Much to my surprise, the last two times I've gone out on Bandolera II (CD-33) I have noticed that the little bit of sea water that accumulates in the engine sump due to the drip of the stuffing box now has a pink edge to it! I put my finger in it and it did not smell like fuel, so the other red liquid in the boat is the transmission oil! Just today I got myself in there (I get in thru the port cockpit locker, and can sit in the space right behind the engine) and ran my hand under the transmission box, and it came out wet and red! Seems to me there has to be a leak somewhere in there. But the dipstick that screws into the little hole where you put in the oil is on the top part of the box, and the leak is not coming from there. Sugestions anybody? Already the comments in my dock were that the gasket that goes from the transmission to the engine may be the culprit. Has anybody replaced this gasket and is it a big deal? Can this be done with the boat in the water? By just looking at it, I can not see where this gasket is located. Since it is not a lot of liquid coming out, I am not panicking, but now I guess I'll have to check the amount of transm. oil that is still in there to make sure there is enough!
I still took the boat out today , although I only sailed with the rollerfurler genny since we had some stormy forecasts -I am now writing this from the boat, in the marina, in pouring rain). made it back just in time! Also noticed the shaft -mine is bronze- is encrusted with dry salt, which I scraped out and then put some WD40 to it... is stainless a better choice? When it's not one thing it's another! I cleaned and dried out the sump for now, and am watching it to see if I can discover a pattern. Thanks for the help.
Zeida
You didn't mention which engine and transmission you have, but if you have a Universal with a Hurth transmission there is no gasket between the tranny and the engine. There is a seal on the trans shaft and that is all that holds the fluid in. Some transmissions share the oil with the engine and then there might be a gasket there but not on the Hurth. One easy thing to check which you didn't mention is the drain plug on the botton of the tranny. Hurth transmissions can run right side up or upside down which is sometimes necessary for access to the controls. The catch is that the fill plug on top has a small breather hole in it. The one on the bottom doesn't. If you somehow interchanged the plugs when you were changing transmission oil you would have a weep through the plug. If you run the tranny upside down you have to interchange the plugs. I think I remember that there is a gasket on the plug, it might have broken or gotten misplaced. I'd wipe it all immaculately clean and then see if the fluid is weeping around the plug with a little mirror. If it turns out that this isn't it and you need transimssion work email me and I can put you onto to someone who will save you about 75%. I'm on my third Hurth transmission and have become an amateur expert in the school of hard knocks.
TacCambria@thegrid.net
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Chris Reinke
Re: Transmissionleaking!
Zeida - Like Tom, I have experienced the need to replace my Hurth transmission. As Tom indicated, check the lower drain plug. Both top and bottom plugs have an aluminum washed which is designed to squeeze slightly when the plug is tightened. It is recommended to replace these washers when you change the transmission fluid and to avoid reusing the existing washers. Many of the yards ignore this manufacturer recommendation and over the years the washers are destroyed.
If that is not your problem you may have a seal problem as Tom indicated. To rebuild the transmission you must remove it from the boat. This was a rather lengthy process for my CD330. I first needed to uncouple the propeller shaft and slide the shaft aft. The 8 or so bolts which mount the transmission bell housing must then be removed. Some of these bolts are VERY difficult to access and a complete set of sockets and drive adapters are needed. Once you remove the bolts and the shift cables then it is time for the fun to begin. I needed to raise the rear of my engine approximately 4 inches to allow the transmission to slide backwards and off the engine shaft. I accomplished this by using a 4"x 4" post across the top of my companionway and a small cable winch. After the transmission has been rebuilt the installation process is accomplished by reversing the removal procedure with a couple of additions. The bell housing bolts should be tightened to the appropriate torque as listed by the manufacturer. This will require a firm hold on the bolt which only the proper socket driver will be able to achieve. The final step is to ensure engine alignment. The fact that you do not adjust the forward engine mounts should ensure the engine returns to the previous alignment. If you do the removal and installation process yourself then I would suggest you contract a professional to check the alignment. The cost for the mechanic’s 30 minutes is far less than the cost for repairing the problems created from an improper alignment.
Good Luck.
Chris
Chris.Reinke@Transamerica.com
If that is not your problem you may have a seal problem as Tom indicated. To rebuild the transmission you must remove it from the boat. This was a rather lengthy process for my CD330. I first needed to uncouple the propeller shaft and slide the shaft aft. The 8 or so bolts which mount the transmission bell housing must then be removed. Some of these bolts are VERY difficult to access and a complete set of sockets and drive adapters are needed. Once you remove the bolts and the shift cables then it is time for the fun to begin. I needed to raise the rear of my engine approximately 4 inches to allow the transmission to slide backwards and off the engine shaft. I accomplished this by using a 4"x 4" post across the top of my companionway and a small cable winch. After the transmission has been rebuilt the installation process is accomplished by reversing the removal procedure with a couple of additions. The bell housing bolts should be tightened to the appropriate torque as listed by the manufacturer. This will require a firm hold on the bolt which only the proper socket driver will be able to achieve. The final step is to ensure engine alignment. The fact that you do not adjust the forward engine mounts should ensure the engine returns to the previous alignment. If you do the removal and installation process yourself then I would suggest you contract a professional to check the alignment. The cost for the mechanic’s 30 minutes is far less than the cost for repairing the problems created from an improper alignment.
Good Luck.
Chris
zeida wrote: Much to my surprise, the last two times I've gone out on Bandolera II (CD-33) I have noticed that the little bit of sea water that accumulates in the engine sump due to the drip of the stuffing box now has a pink edge to it! I put my finger in it and it did not smell like fuel, so the other red liquid in the boat is the transmission oil! Just today I got myself in there (I get in thru the port cockpit locker, and can sit in the space right behind the engine) and ran my hand under the transmission box, and it came out wet and red! Seems to me there has to be a leak somewhere in there. But the dipstick that screws into the little hole where you put in the oil is on the top part of the box, and the leak is not coming from there. Sugestions anybody? Already the comments in my dock were that the gasket that goes from the transmission to the engine may be the culprit. Has anybody replaced this gasket and is it a big deal? Can this be done with the boat in the water? By just looking at it, I can not see where this gasket is located. Since it is not a lot of liquid coming out, I am not panicking, but now I guess I'll have to check the amount of transm. oil that is still in there to make sure there is enough!
I still took the boat out today , although I only sailed with the rollerfurler genny since we had some stormy forecasts -I am now writing this from the boat, in the marina, in pouring rain). made it back just in time! Also noticed the shaft -mine is bronze- is encrusted with dry salt, which I scraped out and then put some WD40 to it... is stainless a better choice? When it's not one thing it's another! I cleaned and dried out the sump for now, and am watching it to see if I can discover a pattern. Thanks for the help.
Zeida
Chris.Reinke@Transamerica.com
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zeida
Re: Transmissionleaking!
Chris & Tom:
Thanks much for your reply regarding my mysterious transmission leak. I went to the boat armed with a printout of Tom's comments. Looking in my boat's manual, (I have the original copy) nowhere it mentions what kind of tranny I have -Hurth, etc.- I do have the Universal Atomic Model 30 (5424) 24 hp. Looking at the engine manual, again I failed to find what type of xmission I have. Since the leak was not that much, I decided to take the boat out, and motored for about an hour. First, I dried up the cup and a half of pink salt water in the engine sump, and thought that when I got back to the slip I would check to see how much had dripped. This time, I got abouthalf a cup of sea water from the stuffing box, and almost no pink. I dried and cleaned the area again. It's now three days later, and no pink drip. I had done extensive engine clean-up in March, including changing the Xmission oil, engine oil, hoses, muffler, etc. and everything was perfect. then I went to London and Canada for a month and a half, and the boat had to wait for me. That's when i first found the pink drip. i wonder if because of lack of use the engine somehow is affected. I also do have a very slight oil leak, but it's been there from the start. I just check the oil dipstick every single time I go out. Since I have been taking the boat out three days in a row, now there's no pink leak! I can not explain it. But now with a printout of your reply, I will re-check again the transmission box and see if I can find about those washers. Keep you posted! Thanks a million. Zeida
zcecil@ibm.net
Thanks much for your reply regarding my mysterious transmission leak. I went to the boat armed with a printout of Tom's comments. Looking in my boat's manual, (I have the original copy) nowhere it mentions what kind of tranny I have -Hurth, etc.- I do have the Universal Atomic Model 30 (5424) 24 hp. Looking at the engine manual, again I failed to find what type of xmission I have. Since the leak was not that much, I decided to take the boat out, and motored for about an hour. First, I dried up the cup and a half of pink salt water in the engine sump, and thought that when I got back to the slip I would check to see how much had dripped. This time, I got abouthalf a cup of sea water from the stuffing box, and almost no pink. I dried and cleaned the area again. It's now three days later, and no pink drip. I had done extensive engine clean-up in March, including changing the Xmission oil, engine oil, hoses, muffler, etc. and everything was perfect. then I went to London and Canada for a month and a half, and the boat had to wait for me. That's when i first found the pink drip. i wonder if because of lack of use the engine somehow is affected. I also do have a very slight oil leak, but it's been there from the start. I just check the oil dipstick every single time I go out. Since I have been taking the boat out three days in a row, now there's no pink leak! I can not explain it. But now with a printout of your reply, I will re-check again the transmission box and see if I can find about those washers. Keep you posted! Thanks a million. Zeida
zcecil@ibm.net
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Tom
Re: Transmissionleaking!
If you've got the Universal engine it's almost certain that you have a Hurth transmission. As far as I know that's the only transmission Universal used with them. You may see a "made in Germany" or "Made in Italy" stamped in the side of the case or you may see a "HW50" or "HW100" which is the Hurth model number. I have some of the manuals which I can photocopy if you're interested. Final thought. Sitting for a month and a half shouldn't affect your engine or transmission. Could you have dripped a little tranny oil in the bilge when you changed it and it then mixed with sea water and became visible?zeida wrote: Chris & Tom:
Thanks much for your reply regarding my mysterious transmission leak. I went to the boat armed with a printout of Tom's comments. Looking in my boat's manual, (I have the original copy) nowhere it mentions what kind of tranny I have -Hurth, etc.- I do have the Universal Atomic Model 30 (5424) 24 hp. Looking at the engine manual, again I failed to find what type of xmission I have. Since the leak was not that much, I decided to take the boat out, and motored for about an hour. First, I dried up the cup and a half of pink salt water in the engine sump, and thought that when I got back to the slip I would check to see how much had dripped. This time, I got abouthalf a cup of sea water from the stuffing box, and almost no pink. I dried and cleaned the area again. It's now three days later, and no pink drip. I had done extensive engine clean-up in March, including changing the Xmission oil, engine oil, hoses, muffler, etc. and everything was perfect. then I went to London and Canada for a month and a half, and the boat had to wait for me. That's when i first found the pink drip. i wonder if because of lack of use the engine somehow is affected. I also do have a very slight oil leak, but it's been there from the start. I just check the oil dipstick every single time I go out. Since I have been taking the boat out three days in a row, now there's no pink leak! I can not explain it. But now with a printout of your reply, I will re-check again the transmission box and see if I can find about those washers. Keep you posted! Thanks a million. Zeida
TacCambria@thegrid.net