Hi Everyone,
This message is aimed at those of you that own a CD30 that seems to be a bit heavy in the butt end..ie: she squats in the water a bit.
I was tired of looking back at my little jewel as I walked away from her and seeing that she was a bit off her marks in the weight distribution dept. I resolved to find a way to cure the problem. First I needed to find the source of the problem and see if that could be eliminated..well, the engine is a Volvo MD7B, and this guy weighs in at around 440 lbs. Other models of this boat used the Universal 18 and a Yanmar, both of which are lighter in weight, and I suspect that the boat was designed with these engines in mind. I suspect that a great deal of this "squatting" is from that extra weight, combined with the three batteries in the port lazarette.
I found that 4 of those sand bags used in pick-up truck boxes as weight to cause better traction in slippery conditions would just fit in the area under the v-berth, just behind the heads holding tank. They cost all of $6.00 total. This area is a molded-in area, and appears to be made for this very purpose. Each bag I got weighed in at 70 lbs, giving me a total of 240 lbs. added to the bow. Now my beauty sits evenly on her lines. Additionally, my wife and I counted around 10 'things' that improved due to additional weight. Here is a partial listing:
o Vessel looks better sitting squarely on her lines.
o Vessel quit 'hobby-horseing' (did not realize that it was even
doing it until we added the weight) as we we burst through waves
rather than rock back from the wave, then charge forward over the
wave.
o Deck Scuppers drain far better, rather than letting water pile up
in the stern deck area.
o Pressure alcohol stove lights and runs better due to the priming
alcohol staying in the burner area, rather than rolling around the
inside of the stove as it used to.
o Sleeping is more comfortable in the saloon area due to the boat
lying flat rather than pitching backwards.
o Engine is quieter due to the water-lift muffler retaining a bit
more water to aid in sound deadening.
o Much less black carbon on stern after long motoring. This is due
to the stern being further out of the water, allowing the exhaust
to exit and not contact the boats stern..keeping it cleaner.
o Boat seems to carry through the waves better..smoother. Cannot
feel individual waves anymore, as the bow now slices through them.
Well, that is only 7 I guess..hmm, memory is failing on the remaining items.
Give it a try if you also suffer from a heavy posterior.
Cheers!
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 #283
demers@sgi.com
Put your CD30 back on her lines for $6.00
Moderator: Jim Walsh
-
Neil Gordon
Re: Put your CD30 back on her lines for $6.00
>>I found that 4 of those sand bags ...<<
Why add extra ballast in the form of dead weight? If you want to add weight forward, why not more anchor chain? That would let you use less scope and/or get more holding power out of your ground tackle. Or how about an extra water tank? How about a wine cellar? Tool storage? A couple of cases of soda? Etc.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
Why add extra ballast in the form of dead weight? If you want to add weight forward, why not more anchor chain? That would let you use less scope and/or get more holding power out of your ground tackle. Or how about an extra water tank? How about a wine cellar? Tool storage? A couple of cases of soda? Etc.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
-
John D
Re: Put your CD30 back on her lines for $6.00
JohnNeil Gordon wrote: Neil - does this mean you've got some anchor chain for $6.00????
S/V Mariah
jdupras@wdcorp.com
-
Neil Gordon
Re: Put your CD30 back on her lines for $6.00
>>... does this mean you've got some anchor chain for $6.00????<<
Not exactly. <g> But imo, there's lots of stuff on the boat that's heavy enough... if you move it around, you can affect the trim quite a bit. Costs nothing, for example, to keep the water tank full or store the extra anchor fwd instead of in a locker.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
Not exactly. <g> But imo, there's lots of stuff on the boat that's heavy enough... if you move it around, you can affect the trim quite a bit. Costs nothing, for example, to keep the water tank full or store the extra anchor fwd instead of in a locker.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
neil@nrgordon.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Put your CD30 back on her lines -response
Hi Neil,
The beauty of adding sand is that you can pull the bag and dump the sand as you want or need to in case you were to add additional chain, another water tank etc. My reason for adding dead weight was that I already have 30 ft. of chain on the rode, and that is as much as I currently need. The benefits of adding the dead weight came from better performance, etc. as detailed in my original piece.
For $6.00, I got the boat back on her lines, improved a slug of things, and improved the world with my smile of happiness! ;^))
As far as a case of soda, wine cellar etc., you would have a heck of a time coming up with nearly 300 lbs. worth of wine in that small area..again, the reason for doing the addition was to regain the proper trim..Ii have additional stowage areas available should it be needed.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
The beauty of adding sand is that you can pull the bag and dump the sand as you want or need to in case you were to add additional chain, another water tank etc. My reason for adding dead weight was that I already have 30 ft. of chain on the rode, and that is as much as I currently need. The benefits of adding the dead weight came from better performance, etc. as detailed in my original piece.
For $6.00, I got the boat back on her lines, improved a slug of things, and improved the world with my smile of happiness! ;^))
As far as a case of soda, wine cellar etc., you would have a heck of a time coming up with nearly 300 lbs. worth of wine in that small area..again, the reason for doing the addition was to regain the proper trim..Ii have additional stowage areas available should it be needed.
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
Neil Gordon wrote: >>I found that 4 of those sand bags ...<<
Why add extra ballast in the form of dead weight? If you want to add weight forward, why not more anchor chain? That would let you use less scope and/or get more holding power out of your ground tackle. Or how about an extra water tank? How about a wine cellar? Tool storage? A couple of cases of soda? Etc.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
demers@sgi.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Put your CD30 back on her lines -another response
Neil,
You are Cd28 centric..come-on, not everybody stores their anchors in a locker. Not everybody has gear that isn't already stowed as desired. We have had our *CD30* for almost 10 years now..I have almost 12,000 miles of sailing time on her. By now, one would expect that things have naturally gravitated to their proper place...which they have done. My anchors are stowed on the bowsprit where it belongs, and the 30 ft. of chain gives us a very secure and non-dragging anchor system, so additional chain is not needed.
I did look at moving my 2 house batteries to the v-berth compartment, but this then represented several large problems that would end up costing a fortune plus add inefficiencies to the DC system through long and expensive battery cables, hydrogen gas being generated under the v-berth, etc. This solution works well, is inexpensive, is actually held in place by a molded in form that completely locates the bags of sand and prevents any movement..even if we were to go turtle (the v-berth plywood is down on top of the bags, preventing movement).
Since you have a CD28, the arrangement in the holding tank area may be different than on the Cd30. The area is fairly small, not lending itself to the stowage of much else. To gain the sme weight with water, I would need to stow 30 gallons (8*30=240). There is about 1/2 the needed room for this.
AS I said previously.the sand can always be pulled out and dumped as additional equipment or ballast comes aboard.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~~~~
demers@sgi.com
You are Cd28 centric..come-on, not everybody stores their anchors in a locker. Not everybody has gear that isn't already stowed as desired. We have had our *CD30* for almost 10 years now..I have almost 12,000 miles of sailing time on her. By now, one would expect that things have naturally gravitated to their proper place...which they have done. My anchors are stowed on the bowsprit where it belongs, and the 30 ft. of chain gives us a very secure and non-dragging anchor system, so additional chain is not needed.
I did look at moving my 2 house batteries to the v-berth compartment, but this then represented several large problems that would end up costing a fortune plus add inefficiencies to the DC system through long and expensive battery cables, hydrogen gas being generated under the v-berth, etc. This solution works well, is inexpensive, is actually held in place by a molded in form that completely locates the bags of sand and prevents any movement..even if we were to go turtle (the v-berth plywood is down on top of the bags, preventing movement).
Since you have a CD28, the arrangement in the holding tank area may be different than on the Cd30. The area is fairly small, not lending itself to the stowage of much else. To gain the sme weight with water, I would need to stow 30 gallons (8*30=240). There is about 1/2 the needed room for this.
AS I said previously.the sand can always be pulled out and dumped as additional equipment or ballast comes aboard.
Cheers,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30 ~~~~~~Sailing Lake Superior~~~~~~~
Neil Gordon wrote: >>... does this mean you've got some anchor chain for $6.00????<<
Not exactly. <g> But imo, there's lots of stuff on the boat that's heavy enough... if you move it around, you can affect the trim quite a bit. Costs nothing, for example, to keep the water tank full or store the extra anchor fwd instead of in a locker.
Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167
demers@sgi.com
-
D. Stump, Hanalei
Re: Gee Larry! Ya comes up with a good idea & everyone y
Larry,
Sounds like a good idea to me, but then again, who am I? Ya know, maybe you could throw out the sand bags, have the 1st. Mate do the steering, and you ride the bow pulpit!! Uh, oh, that is getting all to personal, really, I'm just kidding!
Hey, getting serious for just a second. Does diesel smoke on the transom indicate any trouble with the engine itself? I mean, is it an indication of time to lap valves or anything like that?
Hope you are having a great season on Lake Superior. I haven't yet started to build the cradle, spend to much time sailing. The yard in Noank just installed new concrete floating docks, makes it real easy getting in and out an on and off. So Captain and crew of Hanalei have just been enjoying it all. Hope all is well with you and crew...fair winds and following seas to ya...
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30
Sounds like a good idea to me, but then again, who am I? Ya know, maybe you could throw out the sand bags, have the 1st. Mate do the steering, and you ride the bow pulpit!! Uh, oh, that is getting all to personal, really, I'm just kidding!
Hey, getting serious for just a second. Does diesel smoke on the transom indicate any trouble with the engine itself? I mean, is it an indication of time to lap valves or anything like that?
Hope you are having a great season on Lake Superior. I haven't yet started to build the cradle, spend to much time sailing. The yard in Noank just installed new concrete floating docks, makes it real easy getting in and out an on and off. So Captain and crew of Hanalei have just been enjoying it all. Hope all is well with you and crew...fair winds and following seas to ya...
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30
-
Steve Alarcon
Re: Put your CD30 back on her lines for $6.00
Larry,
I did the same thing to Temerity, although I used lead vs. sand. It's a bit more money, but I maintained the storeage space that way. You gave me the idea in a post you did last year (I think). Thanks for figuring it out, as it was buggin' me too! Perhpas the 28's don't have the problem the 30's do.
BTW, we are hull # 273.
Regards,
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
steve.alarcon@attws.com
I did the same thing to Temerity, although I used lead vs. sand. It's a bit more money, but I maintained the storeage space that way. You gave me the idea in a post you did last year (I think). Thanks for figuring it out, as it was buggin' me too! Perhpas the 28's don't have the problem the 30's do.
BTW, we are hull # 273.
Regards,
Steve Alarcon
CD30 Temerity
Seattle
steve.alarcon@attws.com
-
Ed Haley
Re: Put your CD30 back on her lines for $6.00
<< Give it a try if you also suffer from a heavy posterior.
Larry:
Hey, that great idea of your works twice for me!! Once for my CD28's heavy posterior and once for my own heavy posterior! Hahahaha!
You hit on a topic that's been in my mind for a while. I have about 75 feet of chain I could add to my anchor rode to lower Jasmine's teeth to the waves. I could even add a couple of sand bags under the bow berths. I've noticed the "squatting" on especially light air days when I can't even cross the starting line of a race let alone finish. When the wind is up, no problem. I'm not sure filling the water tanks would "lift the stern."
We're heading out for the "Level Regatta" in Youngstown, NY this weekend (otherwise I'd be at the CD Rendezvous). It takes about a week of harbor-hopping to get there and a week to get back (we like to visit friends along the way). I'll let you know how your helpful suggestions serve us in the races (we finished 3rd last year).
Once again thanks for passing along the info.
eghaley@twcny.rr.com
Larry:
Hey, that great idea of your works twice for me!! Once for my CD28's heavy posterior and once for my own heavy posterior! Hahahaha!
You hit on a topic that's been in my mind for a while. I have about 75 feet of chain I could add to my anchor rode to lower Jasmine's teeth to the waves. I could even add a couple of sand bags under the bow berths. I've noticed the "squatting" on especially light air days when I can't even cross the starting line of a race let alone finish. When the wind is up, no problem. I'm not sure filling the water tanks would "lift the stern."
We're heading out for the "Level Regatta" in Youngstown, NY this weekend (otherwise I'd be at the CD Rendezvous). It takes about a week of harbor-hopping to get there and a week to get back (we like to visit friends along the way). I'll let you know how your helpful suggestions serve us in the races (we finished 3rd last year).
Once again thanks for passing along the info.
eghaley@twcny.rr.com
-
Larry DeMers
Re: Gee Larry! Ya comes up with a good idea & everyone y
Hi Dave,
Smoke on the transom is 'normal' for the Volvo's out there, but you have that Universal, so I don't know about that as much. I can tell you that the Volvo is slightly lower in compression than other engines with a glow plug system, which the Volvo does not have. The black could be indicating that the valves need lapping, but more than likely it is saying the engine is running too cold and not burning the fuel efficiently (big problem here on Superior..with water at 40 deg.)
Now to trumpet my sandbag fix one more time..that additional weight has almost entirely eliminated the black smoke 'smile ' that we had on the stern. In itself, this would have made the sand bag addition worth while. You might try this one yourself. The exhaust seems to miss the stern 90% of the time now, so we have less cleanup.
We found using a product called "Black Streak Remover" worked very well at cleaning the stern of that 'smile', and did not seem to remove the teflon wax we put on in the spring.
We have had a most unusual year on Superior so far. We got caught in a 100 mph downburst while anchored out...the National Weather Sevice called it a Class 1 Hurricane! (see URL at bottom of article). This thing destroyed 1.5 million trees (virtually every one) in a 250,000 acre area of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (a total of 1 million acres of wilderness for canoeing and camping), just north of us about 75 miles. We saw 50-55 kts., max, but had continuous lightning and thunder for 9 freakin' hours. The boat rotated through 360 deg. 12 times while I sat in the companionway and stood anchor watch (no problems there..thank you CQR!!), while boats were washed up on shore, then the rescue boat was turned upside down on shore and wrecked..and the damn Coast Guard refused to come out at all. Jeesh, you would think that we would get something for the inconvenience of their damnable boardings. errgh. Anyway, we have had an odd year so far. We have been up every weekend since March 1st., and good weather or bad, still love our little home.
We're heading to Isle Royale in two weeks or so..this is a 'big' trip Superior wise. It's a 16 hr. overnight sail to an area that has about as many sunken boats as the shoals off Nantucket. Fog is everyday almost..but the scenery when the fog is not there is unworldly beautiful. So we go..with radar.
Take care and good sailing Dave,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
demers@sgi.com
Smoke on the transom is 'normal' for the Volvo's out there, but you have that Universal, so I don't know about that as much. I can tell you that the Volvo is slightly lower in compression than other engines with a glow plug system, which the Volvo does not have. The black could be indicating that the valves need lapping, but more than likely it is saying the engine is running too cold and not burning the fuel efficiently (big problem here on Superior..with water at 40 deg.)
Now to trumpet my sandbag fix one more time..that additional weight has almost entirely eliminated the black smoke 'smile ' that we had on the stern. In itself, this would have made the sand bag addition worth while. You might try this one yourself. The exhaust seems to miss the stern 90% of the time now, so we have less cleanup.
We found using a product called "Black Streak Remover" worked very well at cleaning the stern of that 'smile', and did not seem to remove the teflon wax we put on in the spring.
We have had a most unusual year on Superior so far. We got caught in a 100 mph downburst while anchored out...the National Weather Sevice called it a Class 1 Hurricane! (see URL at bottom of article). This thing destroyed 1.5 million trees (virtually every one) in a 250,000 acre area of the Boundary Waters Canoe Area Wilderness (a total of 1 million acres of wilderness for canoeing and camping), just north of us about 75 miles. We saw 50-55 kts., max, but had continuous lightning and thunder for 9 freakin' hours. The boat rotated through 360 deg. 12 times while I sat in the companionway and stood anchor watch (no problems there..thank you CQR!!), while boats were washed up on shore, then the rescue boat was turned upside down on shore and wrecked..and the damn Coast Guard refused to come out at all. Jeesh, you would think that we would get something for the inconvenience of their damnable boardings. errgh. Anyway, we have had an odd year so far. We have been up every weekend since March 1st., and good weather or bad, still love our little home.
We're heading to Isle Royale in two weeks or so..this is a 'big' trip Superior wise. It's a 16 hr. overnight sail to an area that has about as many sunken boats as the shoals off Nantucket. Fog is everyday almost..but the scenery when the fog is not there is unworldly beautiful. So we go..with radar.
Take care and good sailing Dave,
Larry DeMers
s/v DeLaMer
Cape Dory 30
D. Stump, Hanalei wrote: Larry,
Sounds like a good idea to me, but then again, who am I? Ya know, maybe you could throw out the sand bags, have the 1st. Mate do the steering, and you ride the bow pulpit!! Uh, oh, that is getting all to personal, really, I'm just kidding!
Hey, getting serious for just a second. Does diesel smoke on the transom indicate any trouble with the engine itself? I mean, is it an indication of time to lap valves or anything like that?
Hope you are having a great season on Lake Superior. I haven't yet started to build the cradle, spend to much time sailing. The yard in Noank just installed new concrete floating docks, makes it real easy getting in and out an on and off. So Captain and crew of Hanalei have just been enjoying it all. Hope all is well with you and crew...fair winds and following seas to ya...
Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30
demers@sgi.com