Breakdown of tillers vs. wheels on Cape Dorys 28ft and up

[xnk]

Does anyone know any numbers on how many boats had tillers vs wheels?

How big of a job is it to replace a wheel assembly with a tiller on a Cape Dory 30? I know about weather helm considerations etc. but I would much rather be able to feel the pull on the rudder than be blissfully unaware of dragging the rudder through the water if my rig wasn't balanced.

[mahalocd36]

.... but I would much rather be able to feel the pull on the rudder than be blissfully unaware of dragging the rudder through the water if my rig wasn't balanced.

Not to start the wheel vs. tiller debate but with a wheel you are not 'blissfully unaware' that the rig isn't balanced - you feel the fighting with the wheel as it pulls like you do with a rudder. Yes you do get a little more feel with a tiller (our previous boat had tiller steering) but you still feel the pull of the rudder with wheel steering. Not to talk you out of converting - convert if you want - just you may want to try it with the wheel first if you haven't already. Takes a little getting used to from tiller steering but you may find you like it.

[Al Levesque]

A reference mark on the wheel also shows how much the helm is off center.

[xnk]

Sorry, I didn't mean to open a can of worms. I race dinghys and crew on Santana 35's, all of which have tillers, and some habits are hard to break. Also, the one boat in this size range that I've crewed on that did have a wheel, a C&C 29, had so much weather helm that the boat would accidentally tack in moderate chop, dunking everyone on the rail into the water. It seemed to me like the wheel was letting the skipper get away with not having his rig trimmed properly (and punishing the crew instead ).

Those are just my experiences, I'm not trying to start a huge debate. I noticed that several threads have touched on this before and wondered if anyone had dug up some hard numbers since then.

[Cathy Monaghan]

Hi xnk,

The "rules of thumb" are pretty much the same for both wheel and tiller steering when it comes to excessive weather helm and it means that something needs to be tended to -- in short -- reerf! If you're fighting with the wheel, you'd also be fighting with a tiller, and a good skipper would figure out what needs to be done to get the rig balanced for the conditions.

I think I'd take that CD30 out and use the wheel for at last one full season before contemplating converting to tiller steering. Do all the same stuff that you would normally do to keep things balanced and you should find that she sails quite nicely with the wheel. But if you still want to convert after a year's use, then go ahead. That's my 2 cents anyway.


Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[Neil Gordon]

I think I'd take that CD30 out and use the wheel for at last one full season before contemplating converting to tiller steering.

I've led the tillers are better charge as much as anyone, but I agree with Cathy on this one. Go with what you have until you've used it. If you're still convinced that the change is an improvement, you'll be making a more informed choice.

[Tom in Cambria]

I join the choir also. Cathy's advice is excellent. I didn't think I'd like the cutter rig or the aft head on my 31 either, but I've learned to love both, and much prefer the cutter rig to a sloop rig now.

[Ed Haley]

You bet Cathy has the right advice! Follow it. For my 2 cents, I prefer tillers on small boats and wheels on big boats. And the definition of big boats vs. small boats lies with the experience of the sailor.

I also like Tom's advice regarding the cutter rig. I'm beginning to see the light. Maybe this year will be the turning point, no pun intended.

[Chuck]

Our CD30 w/wheel sails wonderful without excessive weather helm. (Basically none.) Another Cd30 in our Fleet w/tiller sails wonderful without weather helm. It seems people with a wheel want a tiller, and people with a tiller want a wheel. Simple as that. Cathy is a sharp sailor. Listen to her. I wish I could switch back and forth between wheel and tiller. Save your money for the Annapolis meeting.
Chuck
Gulf Coast Fleet

[rtbates]

Besides the debatable increase in feedback, the main reason I much prefer a tiller is helm position. On Seraph, our 25D, I can literally helm her from any spot aft of the compainion way using nothing more more than my tiller extender. This is really useful when I want to get out of the weather and sit under the dodger yet still be able to helm. With a simple pair of lines and blocks I can steer from the bowpit.

[Steve Laume]

Randy, after a year with a wheel I must say it works out very well in general but life is a compromise. The wheel and pedestal take up a lot of room and make it harder to get to the aft end of the cockpit. On the plus side Having the compass right in front of you is excellent. The pedestal is also a great place for drink holders, binos, portable VHF, a winch handle, drop down table and maybe a chart plotter. The CD-30 does not need any extra weight in the stern so I try to keep people forward in the cockpit ahead of the wheel. This also gives the helmsman some room to move around in his or her own space. When I have guests aboard, I like to let them steer so I can play around with the strings. Most people who have not sailed find it MUCH easier to steer with a wheel. It's just like driving a car (sort of). Most people really seem to enjoy standing at the wheel to steer as well. I am often tempted to utter a yo ho myself while standing there wheel in hand. If you are not well balanced you will feel it with the wheel. Believe me I know while learning just what combination of sails to fly, I have felt some weather held coming through the wheel steering system. Maybe it is hydraulic systems that give feel a bad reputation. The wheel lock is the best thing ever invented. It is so easy to lock or brake the wheel and tend to something else while single handing. I miss being able to sit and steer as easily as with a tiller. I have found toe steering to work pretty well. As for steering in a remote location it would be very easy to rig a drum and blocks the way wind vane steering is set up. You could lead the lines anywhere you wanted to and steer from there. There is also the high tech and $$$ route of auto pilot and remote control. It sure is nice to be able to fold up the tiller to clear the cockpit at the end of the day. One of those wheel holders for the pushpit might be nice for extended harbor stays. I wasn't so sure about a wheel either but after a season I have adjusted very well, Steve.

[rtbates]

Your so right, life is all about compromise. Sounds like you have it down.
I know what you mean about standing behind a wheel. Most boats I charter have wheels and there is something so "big boat" about standing behind the wheel.
My "tiller brake" is the tiller extender set against the lee coamimg. I adjust it's length to postion the tiller.
Enjoy.

[mgphl52]

In all of years of sailing I have yet to find a tiller boat with an emergency wheel.

But I have helmed some wheel boats that handle just as sweet as a tiller.

[Steve Laume]

"In all of years of sailing I have yet to find a tiller boat with an emergency wheel."
A point well made. I know it is always spoken so as to point out the unreliability of a more complicated wheel steering system. Isn't it a very good thing to have a redundant system for something as important as steering the boat with some measure of ease? I am in the process of building a rack for my emergency tiller. It is simply a socket for one end and some straps or wire ties to keep the other end up at the edge of the cockpit locker. The reasoning is that if it is ever needed, it may be needed in a bit of a hurry and at a time when digging to the bottom of the locker would not be a pleasant option. A spare tiller on a tiller boat would not be a bad idea either, Steve.[/quote]

[Warren Kaplan]

I've sailed a variety of boats over the years. Everything from small tillered dinghies to 50 Beneteaus with wheels. I have a great feel of the rudder in the tiller of my CD27. But ya' know, when sailing the 50 footer in the BVI for a week last December, I had a great feel for the rudder after a day or so.

A sailor gets to learn his boat with time and by paying attention to what's going on. I can't say I prefer one over the other. I get just as worn out slugging to windward in 6 foot seas on my tillered CD27 on LI Sound as I did in the same conditions sailing a wheeled 38 footer back to Ft. Lauderdale from Key Largo. You can get massive weather helm on either and that has to do with sail trim, not whether the boat is tillered or wheeled.

I suppose one major difference between the two, that has nothing to do with boat and/or captain performance is the fact that a tiller is a simple device. No chains, quadrants and cables to malfunction or that may require cumbersome repair or maintenance. I you come from the KISS school, keep it simple stupid, then a tiller will have the edge there. Otherwise, its just a matter of getting the "feel" of your boat and reading the signals its sending to you whether tillered or wheeled