Issues with a Cape Dory 22

[Sea Hunt]

I have just registered with the CDSOA message board after reading and learning from this message board for almost 18 months. I posted several questions on the board as a guest before it was limited to registered members only.

I am very actively looking for a Cape Dory. This will be my first sailboat purchase. My first choice is a CD 22; second choice CD 25D; third choice CD Typhoon Weekender. I have sailed each model at least once. Each CD has much to recommend it and a few things I do not like.

I know they are each different in many ways. Ultimately, my choice will probably be guided by the first one I find that is in very good to excellent condition. I do not believe I have the mechanical, electrical and/or carpentry skills to purchase a CD that needs a lot of restoration work.

My sailing will be in Biscayne Bay, Florida, the Florida Keys (mostly 1-2 day trips), and possibly (after a lot of sailing hours under the keel), a few 5-7 day trips to Bimini, Bahamas.

I have been looking at a 1981 CD 22 in Maine. I am told that a marine survey found the following issues among other items of concern:

1. Transom shows gel coat cracks around engine mount. It presently has a 15 HP 4 stroke Evinrude. If I buy, it will be without the O/B motor which is, in my judgment, way too much hp and weight hanging off the transom.

2. Bottom of rudder is damaged exposing foam core.

3. Deck shows some gel coat crazing.

4. Elevated moisture around the hawser hole, in front center of the trunk cabin, and the stern port corner of the aft deck. There is no delamination at this time.

5. Cockpit sole has crazing and elevated moisture around the rudder post.

6. Starboard sail locker cover has elevated moisture around the base hole from an old autopilot.

7. There was a water leak in the cabin of unknown origin.

8. Mast step is loose.

From the little I know, the elevated moisture levels at various places in the hull are problematic, as are the "cabin water leak", the damaged rudder, and the loose mast step.

I would very much appreciate the input of experienced CD owners concerning any or all of the above issues. Are they such that I should walk away from this particular CD 22? Are they readily fixable but at a cost? I am told that to fix everything would be about $3,000 - $4,000.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

[Dick Villamil]

I recommend that you get a Typhoon to start - Sal Randazzo's boat is for sale and she looks like a beauty - If you decide to move up later you will have no trouble selling a Ty. The CD 22 you are looking at seems to me more of a project than you sound willing to attack. Everything is repairable - you just need to evaluate how much time and $ you want to spend. Since there is no "foam" in the hull - it sounds like thee is water in the keel that froze in the laminate and needs to be opened up and thoroughly dries out be fore refilling with epoxy. I just did that to my Ty and there was a lot of water in the laminate - I removed as much of the "foam" or "rotted fiberglass" before filling and repairing. Solid and very dry now however!

[oldragbaggers]

My husband and I have done the repairs that this 22 needs (the decks of a Bristol 24 and the rudder of a Cabo Rico 38 - What a monster!!!), and while not really expensive, if you do it yourself, it is considerable work. If the foam in the rudder is saturated with water, as it certainly is if the fiberglass has been breached, then the rudder will need a rebuild because the buoyancy has been affected, therefore affecting the steering. Deck crazing and elevated water means removing that saturated balsa core and replacing it. These jobs are not particularly difficult but are time and labor intensive. I would wholeheartedly agree with Dick that a TY would be an excellent choice for a first boat. Our first boat was a TY and we learned so much but she was safe and forgiving and it's true that you would have no trouble selling her. But if you should decide to go forward with the 22 and do the repairs, I am sure there are many people on this board who would be glad to offer their knowledge and expertise to help you.
On the other hand, if there is a 22 out there needing help, someone needs to buy it and fix it so that we don't lose another one of these great boats to the junkyard. We just bought one that was damaged in Katrina and had her shipped to MD to do the repairs.
Good luck and happy sailing, whatever you decide to do.
Becky

[Ron M.]

You can learn to repair almost anything associated with a sailboat by doing a bit of research and getting your nose full of dust. I do understand that some are not inclined to take the hands-on approach, and that is fine.One of the many issues my current boat had when I bought her was a rotten cockpit sole (less than 12 square feet).I had a couple of estimates to repair this that ranged from 1500 - $ 4000 .
My point being that if you are interested in a particular vessel that needs some attention be sure the survey reflects this and the remedy to correct it,get a few professional estimates and let this determine what the boat is worth to you.

By the way Becky, I know of 2 CD28's on Cape Cod that are close to the chainsaw.
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Ecig Forum

[winthrop fisher]

Hi...

with ever thing said, if you would do all the work it is not hard...

their are allot of people that are new to sailing and boating and do all the work them selfs, that is half of the fun and allot cheaper...

i restore boats on the side and teach people in my store and show them how to do it them selfs and most like it...

the oldest couple i had was in there mid 50's and they are in a lake 20 miles long by 12 miles wide and they have a cd25.
they are living on board for long weekends at a time and loving it...

to the boat you are looking at and all that work is really not that bad and with a little TLC and some repairs, you will be in the water in a month or two.
you should be able to keep the price down...

just keep in mind that if you go with a boat with no repairs you will pay allot more...

besides if you prefer the cd22 over the typhoon for more room and little more speed, i would go for it. at the right price....

think about it, its your money....
winthrop

I have just registered with the CDSOA message board after reading and learning from this message board for almost 18 months. I posted several questions on the board as a guest before it was limited to registered members only.

I am very actively looking for a Cape Dory. This will be my first sailboat purchase. My first choice is a CD 22; second choice CD 25D; third choice CD Typhoon Weekender. I have sailed each model at least once. Each CD has much to recommend it and a few things I do not like.

I know they are each different in many ways. Ultimately, my choice will probably be guided by the first one I find that is in very good to excellent condition. I do not believe I have the mechanical, electrical and/or carpentry skills to purchase a CD that needs a lot of restoration work.

My sailing will be in Biscayne Bay, Florida, the Florida Keys (mostly 1-2 day trips), and possibly (after a lot of sailing hours under the keel), a few 5-7 day trips to Bimini, Bahamas.

I have been looking at a 1981 CD 22 in Maine. I am told that a marine survey found the following issues among other items of concern:

1. Transom shows gel coat cracks around engine mount. It presently has a 15 HP 4 stroke Evinrude. If I buy, it will be without the O/B motor which is, in my judgment, way too much hp and weight hanging off the transom.

2. Bottom of rudder is damaged exposing foam core.

3. Deck shows some gel coat crazing.

4. Elevated moisture around the hawser hole, in front center of the trunk cabin, and the stern port corner of the aft deck. There is no delamination at this time.

5. Cockpit sole has crazing and elevated moisture around the rudder post.

6. Starboard sail locker cover has elevated moisture around the base hole from an old autopilot.

7. There was a water leak in the cabin of unknown origin.

8. Mast step is loose.

From the little I know, the elevated moisture levels at various places in the hull are problematic, as are the "cabin water leak", the damaged rudder, and the loose mast step.

I would very much appreciate the input of experienced CD owners concerning any or all of the above issues. Are they such that I should walk away from this particular CD 22? Are they readily fixable but at a cost? I am told that to fix everything would be about $3,000 - $4,000.

Thanks in advance for your assistance.

[CapeTyphooner]

Hi Ron. I sent you a PM and would be interested in learning more about the CD28s that you referenced in your message. Please contact me at your convenience.

[Nancy Martin]

There is a chance a CD22 will be going on the market soon in Atlanta . The boat has a trailor with it.
Nancy

[George Hare]

Nancy, can I get more information on the CD 22 in Atlanta? I am relatively close in NC?
George: ghare@nc.rr.com

[gsd46]

The nice thing about doing the work yourself is in knowing it was done correctly. If you hire all your work out how will you ever know this?

[oldragbaggers]

Amen to that last comment. No one will ever be as careful with the work as the person who has to live with the result. If you know that the safety of yourself and your family/friends is dependent on the job you do, you do it as well as you can.

[rtbates]

The Typhoon and CD22 are vastly different from the 25D in their capabilities. For crossing the gulf stream the 25D's diesel will be a god send. Yes you can cross with an outboard, I crossed in a San Juan 21 with a 5hp, but I'd never do that again. The outboard cavitated every time I came to the crest of a large swell. The cockpit didn't have self draining so I was bailing when I'd take on water, and you will take on water if any kind of swell is running. The gulf stream is very deceiving. It'll look placid from outside but once into it things can change very rapidly.
If I remember correctly I've read some folks account of the 25's cockpit drains bringing water IN. Something about the floor of the cockpit being below the water line.
The Typhoon and the 25 are very good coastal cruisers/daysailers. the 25D can cross the Pacific.

[Sea Hunt]

Thanks to everyone for the suggestions. I am told the CD 22 was recently sold.

So, it is on to look at other CDs.

I am retired and would very much like to do as much work as possible in refurbishing and "bringing to bristol" any CD I buy. My hesitancy is not lack of enthusiasm. It is lack of knowledge and skill.

I have considered talking with South Florida boatyards about the possibility of working alongside experienced tradesman on any work that would be done on my yet-to-be bought CD. This would hopefully give me the opportunity to learn how to do it myself and try to ensure that what is being done is being done to my standards.

What experience do board members have with this type of relationship with a boatyard? In other trades (automotive, home construction, electricians, etc.), it has been my experience that most do not want you around while they are working. I am not sure why but can speculate about a bunch of reasons.

What are your thoughts and experiences?

[Ron M.]

Boat repair shops can be very valuable to your education and skill building; if you can find one that will let you hang around. These days with liability issues it may be difficult. When I was younger I did just that at a couple of local shops.The owners generosity was invaluable to me and they were most patient.Perhaps you can trade off doing minor chores. That said there are many helpful books that can quickly get you up to speed , and of course there is the wealth of knowledge avilable from this board. Good luck
________
California dispensaries

[Zeida Cecilia-Mendez]

Sea Hunt... the boat yards around the Miami / So. Miami area will not offer you what you are hoping for. There are a couple of Do IT yourselve yards where some of us do our maintenance. I do most of my sailing on Biscayne Bay, and the Keys. It is great sailing down here, of course, except when the hurricanes come!
I suggest you research a little more for a CD-22 in real good condition. That way you will be able to start enjoying your boat much sooner. The CD-22 you described had way too many problems, some critical. Look for a boat with the least of problems and you will not regret it.