What was Cape Dory Thinking?

[Scott MacCready]

Well, I finally got the time to fly down to SC to move Feather. My plan is to eventually get her to Oriental,NC but this first stage was only about 27 miles from McClellanville,SC to Georgetown. I decided just a short initial trip to get used to the boat and work-out any problems that might arise. The terrain on either side of the ICW in this part of SC is wide open grassland which enabled me to raise the sails and motor-sail the whole way. Being alone, I only raised the club-footed jib and the mizzen. They were enough to keep me busy. I really do like the convenience of the Club footed jib for frequent tacking though.
The only problem I had on the trip was if I ran the engine above 2000 rpm, the temperature guage would rise into the red. If I stayed at 2000 or below, it was fine. Water was coming out the exhaust so I continued on my way. Never having had a deisel before, I'm not sure what speed to operate anyway. Trying to use some logic, I figure I shift gears in my jeep at 2k rpm so this should be ok. Even at this, with the aide of the sails, I was able to move at over 5 kts for most of the trip. Once I hit winyah bay, I fought both a head wind and the out-going tide. My speed slowed to about 2.3 kts. I would've liked to use more engine but was concerned about overheating. Anyway, I made it to my destination without incident and have her docked at Georgetown Landing Marina for now.
I tried contacting a recommended mechanic to come take a look at my engine but he never called back. Being a little impatient and on a tight schedule, I took matters into my own hands. In the spare parts box that came with Feather, I found 3 thermostats (all different). I climbed down into the bilge (with hatches tied open) and started trying to determine where the thermostat housing was. After tracing water lines, I finally found it. Out in the open it would be a very easy job. Down in the tight bilge, since the engine is mounted backwards, it was quite a job. I'm not a big man. I don't think anyone 5 pounds heavier or 2" taller could fit in there and actually work. I got it done, and the problem seems fixed. (pat, pat). Next I want to tackle changing the oil and changing the impeller (also in the spare parts box). I can see why others have cut access holes in the cockpit floor. Seems like Cape Dory would've done this for us.

[Steve Laume]

Wait till you try to get to the transmission. I just got to checking the pencil zinc on my heat exchanger. I had feared the worst because I did not do it in the spring and had no idea weather the PO had ever changed it. In order to change it you have to lay over the motor and unclamp the heat exchanger and push it aside so there is room to back out the zinc without hitting the engine mount. Of course the engine mount is steel and there is no way to keep salt water from dribbling on it when you remove the zinc. This is routine maintainance that is very difficult to preform. That sort of situation leads to neglect. Cape Dory built a fine sailboat and that was indeed their first priority, Steve.

[Dean Abramson]

Scott,

Do you have any photos of that engine installation? I would be very interested in seeing that.

The conventional wisdom up here seems to be that running a diesel at 80-90% of max revs is best for the engine. Sounds like the new thermostat did the trick.

Maybe the one that was in there was someone's idea of a "winter thermostat;" although, personally, I am not sure what I think of that whole idea. It seems to me that the engine wants to be at a certain temp, period. Maybe in extreme cold, the difference between the temp of the coolant at the thermostat, versus the temp at the farthest point in the system from the thermostat, varies enough that a hotter thermostat is needed to get the average temp up.

I am flying fairly blind on the above. Anyone care to comment? Probably Scott just had a bum thermostat.

Dean

[Domenic]

I do not feel to run an engine at that RPM is good. You will blow the engine.

[Carter Brey]

Don't feel bad, Scott. The entire dwarf cast of The Wizard of Oz, including the Lollypop League, will have to be pressed into service to maintain the seacocks, stuffing box and waterlift muffler on my Sabre 28. As Steve says, the quality builders were interested in the sailing side of things.

Best of luck, Carter

[Joe CD MS 300]

It might be heresy on this board and I am probably risking the wrath of our Web Mistress but Sabre makes a great boat. They are a nice combination of performance, seaworthiness and quality. I chartered a 1980-1986 Sabre 34' from Hinckley a few years back. Liked it a lot, very well balanced. You will likely enjoy the additional room.

Joe

[Clay Stalker]

Domenic:

While I am not diesel expert, everything I have learned about them tells me to run them at 80% of max RPMs as often as possible...and no fear of blowing the engine by doing this. My Yanmar 2GMF has a max RPM of 3400 RPMs, so I try to run it at 2600-2700 RPMs and she purrs at that speed. Of course, some diesels have a lower max RPM so will be different. I once had a friend with a VW diesel Rabbit...he used to drive that damn thing around almost wide open in 2nd and 3rd gear....I thought he was either an idiot or a closet NASCAR racer....turns out, the car rusted away at 275,000 miles and the engine still ran like new...

And Carter, I agree with Joe that Sabres are one of the finest boats out there now....great combination of quality construction and good performance. You will be very happy with your 28 I'm certain....and again, welcome to the Brand-X contingent of the CDSOA, Northeast Fleet!

Clay Stalker

[Paul D.]

Scott,

If you fixed the problem with a thermostat, God Bless. My brother on his CD 36 fixed his problem which sounded exactly like yours by changing the bronze fitting at the hull for the engine water intake. It seems that with the round intake screen with holes there can be agitation of the water flow much like cavitation around a prop. He changed to a forward facing slotted fitting and that did the trick - no more overheating.

I however, can't seem to get my temp gauge up to 180 unless I close it off 2/3! I don't do it just run low temp. Motor seems to run fine though. I try to rev it when I run it.

I too owned a Rabbit Diesel for ten years and retired it at over 200,000 miles. The motor went on to run used fryer oil. So I am in the "run your diesel hard" camp.

All the best,
Paul

[Dick Barthel]

A few years ago Good Old Boat did an article on the Sabre and its founder. What sticks in my mind is that in the early 80's Sabre was willing to change its look below the waterline to a more modern configuration while Mr. V was not. During the crunch of the 80's when quality boats were priced out of the market, Cape Dory went out of business while Sabre survived.

Dick

[sloopjohnl]

low rpms in gear is commonly referred to as "lugging" in the diesel business. this can be hard on the engine and should be avoided. most manufacturers will give a minimum rpm recommendation. in the two and three cylinder diesels we use in landscape equipment, they are generally run at full throttle when working under load.

[L.DeMers]

Scott,

If you have the MD7B, then 2000 RPM is fine. Top end is 2600 RPM, and anything short of 2400 is ok. I can keep 2200-2400 rpm running for many hours without a problem, so you should too -if needed.

The ideal operating temp for diesels to run at is normally 190 deg. The deciding factor on which thermostat to use is the water temp that you are cruising in.

I sail Lake Superior, from ice out thru November, so the water temp. varies from 35 to 50 deg. I use a 190 deg. 'stat, and the engine maintains this temp very nicely, under all conditions. I have used a 160 deg. standard issue 'stat, and had trouble getting the temp above 100 deg. This caused some soot problems as well as carbon buildup in the engine.

Perhaps the new boat has been in other waters than where she is now? Then a few different temp values would have been purchased? The other possibility is that the different 'stats indicate the remains of some earlier troubleshooting of the cooling circuit, or work on an overheating problem?

I too wish that Cape Dory had made it easier to get at the engines backside. I have to ask my wife to get in there for me, while I assist from inside the engine compartment. Removing the alternator, for instance takes a 36 inch extension for my socket wrench, which she holds in the port lazarette, while I work from inside the engine compartment. It does take the two of us to get it out. Somehow, a larger opening in the lazarette needs to be made. Heh..another mod for 10 years from now.

[marv brinn]

There is no comparison of the diesel to the gas engine. Scott, I remember taking one voyage with you when you had a cd and started up the outboard...everything was fine but in the back of my mind was the thought will it start and will it run? By comparison the diesel will go about 8000 hrs without major work . This means my grandchildren will be using the same engine!!!!
needs no seriousl layup like a carb job does. is very very reliable. I have been away from Bessie for 2 months hit the button and off she went. while my friends were tearing apart their engines on the dock. So I feel that if you need to change a thermostat once every 5 yrs its better than tuning up every yr and replacing stuff every 5 yrs (gas engine)

[Stan W.]

What sticks in my mind is that in the early 80's Sabre was willing to change its look below the waterline to a more modern configuration while Mr. V was not. During the crunch of the 80's when quality boats were priced out of the market, Cape Dory went out of business while Sabre survived.Dick

Sabres never changed. They have always been fin keel, detached rudder boats.

It is obvious now that kind of boat had (and still has) much greater appeal to the coastal cruisers/casual racers who make up the vast majority of people shopping for production-built sailboats. Full keel boats became too much of a niche market to sustain the volumes needed to keep prices competitive with other production-built boats.

Andy V. did try to adapt by introducing the Intrepid line but it never took off, probably because Cape Dory expended so much effort promoting full keels people assumed it didn't know how to do anything else.

[Carter Brey]

Stan is right; the entire Sabre line has always had prcisely the same underwater profile: sweptback fin keel and skeg-mounted rudder with a moderate turn to the bilge. The ballast ratio and LWL-to-beam are conservative enough to keep the capsize ratio below 2, so it's a nice balance.

One thing Stan didn't mention was the effect of the late-1980's luxury tax on all yacht manufacturers. It killed a lot of them. Andy could otherwise probably have continued to serve the niche market for full-keel boats.

Regards,
Carter

[Clay Stalker]

Also, Sabre Yachts did not stay continuously in business during the turmoil of the early 90's. A major creditor called in a loan and they had to declare bankruptcy and close down...for I think about 9 months. New investors came to the rescue and the company was revived, fortunately with most of the talented work force and buildings still intact. Cape Dory was quite a bit larger a company and I suspect was just in way over it's head when sales dropped off...largely because they were competing with their own used boats, and all their products looked the same....