Jack Lines

[Ar]

Hi Everyone!
Am the proud owner of a new to me Cape Dory 25, and am just thrilled with my boat, and can not wait till spring to sail her.

I crewed and raced 420s' and 505s' in college, but that was a long time ago. This is my first venture into a fast cruiser, but there is one concern.
I just ordered a harness, tether, and flat web jack lines, and was wondering if someone could please describe how to fasten the jack lines to my boat?

Thank you ever so much,
Arlene

[Bob B.]

Arlene,
I placed jacklines along my deck on each side from the winch base to the forward docking cleat. It allowed me to work anywhere forward and have the security of a harness. You could also place a padeye with backing plate near the coaming but I tend to stump my toes on everything on deck anyway and one more thing gives me another blue toe.

Congratulations on your Cape Dory.

Bob B.
CD25D Tiva Lake Harwell, SC

[Warren Kaplan]

I have double mooring cleats on the bow of my CD27. I run a jackline from each cleat down the deck aft, on their respective sides to cleats that are near the stern adjacent to the cockpit. I also installed 3 fold down Wichard padeyes in the cockpit. If I am just staying in the cockpit I just clip in my tether to the padeye on the high side. If I'm gonna leave the cockpit I'll use the jacklines. Nice thing about the fold down padeyes is that they fold flat out of the way when you won't be using them ....means no skinned ankles etc., and they are available in a hurry without having to rig anything. Hope this helps.

[DanaVin]

We got the line (actually the web strap) from WM. The size was perfect and we go from the forward deck cleat down both sides to the aft dock cleats. Since sunlight deteriorates them it's simple enough to stow when we get back to our slip and aren't going to sail for several days. We use it whenever we leave the cockpit.
Congrats on your new boat! One of the best classics around!
Thanks
Dana
"Gladys Erzella"
1077 CD25, #541
San Diego Bay

HTTP://svGladysErzella.photosite.com

[Carter Brey]

It's really easy to rig jack lines on a CD25. Stern cleat to bow cleat along each side deck. Use the loop end at the bow cleat, pushing the loop through the open foot and bringing it up and over the horns to secure. Then you can adjust length at the stern cleat, using any kind of secure hitch you wish.

Carter

[slaume]

On our TY it was bow cleat to winch bases. Going to open winch bases is good because if, heaven forbid, you ever do go over your tether would not allow you to troll behind the boat. I have been using the stern cleats on our CD-30. It has a built up wooden winch base so using it is not an option. I will be adding pad eyes forward or the stern cleats this spring. The trouble with using the stern cleats is that they are needed for other things. It is kind of a pain to tie up to a dock and then have your jack lines trapped under your mooring lines when you want to stow them after a trip. We also use both stern cleats to tow our dink. There will be much less clutter with some dedicated pad eyes rather than using the stern cleats. Even with harness and jack lines make sure you move about like your life depends on it. I will never forget a story I heard about a single handed sailor who fell overboard to be saved by his harness and tether only to find he was doomed to die while being towed behind his boat. He was just too weak and the boat was moving too fast to get back aboard. He lived to tell his story when the boat ran up on a reef and wrecked. It destroyed his boat and saved his life. Jack lines are a very good thing, Steve.

[Bob B.]

Arlene,
I knew an Arlene that went by Ar. From SC but living in Oregon. Are you the same one? If so hello. If not then welcome to the Cape Dorians anyway.

Bob B in SC.

[Ar]

I'm confused, I thought jack lines were suppose to keep you from falling over-board, but if they are laid along the side deck by the rail, then the length of the tether is the length you will be out of the boat.
Perhaps I can not see the woods from the trees, but I was under the perception that the jack lines originated at the bow and were led aft along the Center Line, with a wrap around the mast, and then on to the cockpit. My question concerned where and how in the cockpit is the ideal termination.

No Bob, never was lucky enough to visit Oregon. Live here in Groton, MA

I am going to have to register.
Arlene[/i]

[slaume]

In a perfect world jack lines would run cockpit to bow up the center line of the boat on either side of the mast. You would be able to clip in before you left the companionway and more all over the deck without ever getting your tether hung up on anything and it would be short enough not to let you fall over the side. Except maybe at the bow. I like thdodgerer so that is obstruction number one and they go on from there. If you clip in on the high side a jack line probably will not let you fall off the lee side. It is much better than clipping and unclipping to life lines or doing a crab dash to the mast and clipping into a shroud. It is nice not to worry about your tether being too short to deal with the fore deck after having clipped in near the mast. You can always clip a shorter tether to something substantial once you get where you are going. In most cases jack lines run up each side of the boat would keep you from falling overboard. I just always try to move about like I am not clipped in at all, then the harness is just insurance, Steve.

[Neil Gordon]

I'm confused, I thought jack lines were suppose to keep you from falling over-board, but if they are laid along the side deck by the rail, then the length of the tether is the length you will be out of the boat.

Yes, and no. If you clip onto the windward (high) side, you can, in fact, fall over to windward. What's harder to do though, is slip and slide and then fall over to leeward. If you slip, the tether should stop you before you crash.

Probably too little attention is paid to the length of the tether, which should allow for enough movement but not more than enough. As is pointed out elsewhere in this thread, clipping on with a shorter tether while at the mast or whatever is a good idea.

Don't forget winch bases as strong points if you don't have padeyes handy in the cockpit.

[DanaVin]

I generally clip on to the opposite side of the boat and keep a fairly tight line. I use it for insurance, though, as I move about basically without thinking about it.
When in the ocean, far off shore, I also (when leaving the cockpit for any reason), trail a small line off a block to the tiller. This is just in case I do go over I can pull on the line and it'll stretch the surgical tubing self steering rig I use bringing it up to windward and stalling out.
Only thing left is to mount the SS HD swim ladder off the stern.
The PO used one of the portable ones which hang over the side.I don't like to use it on a boat like the CD25.
Hope I'm doing things safely.
Thanks
Dana
CD25, 1977
San Diego Bay

[Neil Gordon]

Only thing left is to mount the SS HD swim ladder off the stern. The PO used one of the portable ones which hang over the side.I don't like to use it on a boat like the CD25.

Nearly every test of COB recovery shows that if you go in the water, you probably die, even if there are sufficient people on board to theoretically recover you.

That said, with any sort of sea running, boarding over the transom is really difficult. I have enough trouble with 1-2 footers, in quiet anchorages, just getting on board from the dinghy.

[Mike Thompson]

After falling overboard, getting back will be really difficult, however
I do the following.
The jack lines run from the bow to the pulpit and are about four feet
longer than needed. I put a loop on the end using a bowline and
add lots of half hitches to make the knot larger. When this is dropped
over board, it just reaches the water.
I often sail with these loops hanging overboard.
A few times a year (last year only twice after all I sail in MAINE) I go for
a swim and climb back on board using a loop as a stirrup.
The extremely cold water gives me a reason for getting back on board
really quick. Although not easy, I have been doing this for years
and am now quite fast (despite being 65).
In a real life overboard situation the chance of success is slim
but better than zero!

[Bill Goldsmith]

Nearly every test of COB recovery shows that if you go in the water, you probably die,

This, of course, depends on a number of factors, even assuming the COB is wearing a PFD:
--Water temperature? Hypothermia will occur in minutes in 40 degree water, hours in 60 degree water.
--Light or dark? Can you be seen? Do you have a personal strobe light?
--Sea state?
--Skill of remaining crew?
--Any injury on the way over?

A COB in a protected Caribbean bay with a skilled crew and no injury is not likely going to die.

A COB in the North Atlantic in the middle of the night with a head injury and a novice crew has a very slim chance of recovery and survival.

I, too, think of side-deck jack lines as providing little help all by themselves. Even with a short tether, just long enough to stand up, if you go over the lifelines you will hang there and be dragged through the water. If you are singlehanding and the autopilot or windvane is engaged, you'll never have the strength to get back aboard. However, if there is other crew to assist, you are still in better shape than if you were separated from the boat.

I like the idea of a v-shaped tether (or two tethers) and the center-line jack line in addition to the side deck jack line. With two tethers, you can alternate clipping into the side deck line or the center line. You can also install padeyes in strategic locations (as Warren did in the cockpit). At the mast, you can wrap the tether around the mast and attach it back to itself to shorten it up. The idea is to keep your body's center of gravity as inboard as possible.

[Bill Goldsmith]

with any sort of sea running, boarding over the transom is really difficult. I have enough trouble with 1-2 footers, in quiet anchorages, just getting on board from the dinghy.

I agree with Neil. I don't like stern ladders on counter stern transoms. With any sea running the ladder bounces up and down vertically. It is hard to get a foothold from the water or from a dinghy. When swimming. the stern of the boat can whack you on the head. Not a great way to get a COB back aboard. The midship ladder is in a much more sedate location even if the seas are choppy.

Also, the ergonomics are bad at the stern: if you have a family of kids for an afternoon swim, they all board into the cockpit. With a midship ladder everyone boards onto the side deck where there is more elbow room.

I would opt for a Mystic Stainless Foldaway rather than a stern ladder. They are pricey, though.