Transom Mounted Outboard

[Mike Johnson]

My Honda 4 stroke, 8hp, year 2002 fits well in the well. I pull the engine and leave it on the cabin sole when off the boat, and if I don't need it while sailing, i leave it in the v-berth which I use for storage. I have made a shelve across the outboard shelves which i use for storage above the motor which lies on the v-berth sans cushions. I mostly sail solo so I have no need for v-berth. Works well for me. Keeps the engine happy and the boat sails better!

[DanaVin]

The Admiral and I had some long discussions on this topic. We finally decided to leave the Honda 5 (4 stroke, long shaft) in the well instead of mounting it on the transom. (For a lot of reasons.)
The Honda 5 is a pretty gutsy engine and only weighs 54#, if I remember correctly. The problem I was having was the deterioration of the prop and lower leg when I kept it in the well for long periods of time. (When I was too lazy or tired to pull it out!) I've built a small crutch for it which slides over the front of the engine well compartment. Now I can lift the engine up and place it on this crutch. Attach the water hose for flushing as I run the gas out of the carb. I can leave it like that and secure it or store it in the cockpit locker. I store the crutch in the slip locker.
Thankfully, the tiller is able to go down when I pull it out.
The engine gets us about 5.5 plus knots.
As far as smothering in its own exhaust, I leave the engine hood open about 2 inches. That solved the problem.
Since I don't use the engine all that much anyway, it's not a big hassle to pull it if I'm not going to sail for quite a spell.
I'll post some pictures on my site when I get her back in the water soon. We're trying to finish up on the dodger and bimini at the moment.
Thanks
Dana
http://svGladysErzella.photosite.com
CD25, 1977, #541
San Diego Bay

[Will Wheatley]

In addition to changing the look for the worse you would also change the way the boat sits in the water and sails. You could compensate by adding weight up front but all that weight will also affect performance.

Keeping the motor in the well is definatley the way to go but you can make that easier. There are descriptions of lifting devises for the 25 in the archives. Jim L. had posted one at one time.
You could also do what John Ring did with his 25 which was to modify his motor mount so that it would accommodate a short shaft without too much downside. The upside being he could take it out easily and stash it in the cockpit locker on a mount he made in there, even while sailing. Although i think he used a 5hp.

You say you want to go with a larger motor but this brings up an old subject that always comes up and that is hull speed. My 20 yr old 6hp Evinrude pushes Suzi Q at about 5.5 knots which is just below hull speed. I know the newer motors are faster so the 6hp Nissan should work fine as long as it has the right prop. With a bigger motor I suppose you can squeeze a fraction of a knot more out of her but at the cost of fuel. Generally once you are at hull speed the boat will start to squat if you increase the throttle but wont really increase speed through the water.

This is something I would like to run a test on. We know that hull speed can be determined through a mathematical formula. The formula itself is not important but we know that the longer the length of the boat at the waterline the faster the boats' hull speed will be. Planing boats are different but our CDs no dot plane. With this in mind consider that if you are at hull speed in your 25 and you have a big enough engine to give it more gas or your weight is already off because of a transom mounted engine. If the result of more throttle is more squat, the bow of the boat is lifting up more thus shortening the length of the boat at the waterline and theoretically slowing you down.

I would love to hear from someone who has used a 10 hp to see if this is true but meanwhile I will stick to a 6hp and just lift it out of the well when I am not using it.

Happy Sailoring~~~~/)~~~~

[Oswego John]

There are some facts of life that we have to live with or we can go stick our heads in the sand and make believe they don't exist.

Stadel designed the CD25 with a well for the auxiliary motor. That design stood the test of time for about 30 years with little complaint

Alberg designed the Ty and the CD22 with the intent that if the owner desired an auxiliary engine, it would be hung on the transom. The builder even provided a uniquely designed removable motor mount with the boat. To this day, the transom mounted outboard motor has served it's purpose well with hardly a murmur.

Lately, more and more is said about the negative appearance, trim, aesthetics, squat, etc., etc. of a transom mounted motor. I certainly hope that these complaints are reserved for the CD25s.

Let's point the finger at the real crux of the problem. It seems that in the last two or three years , more and more owners want more horse power for their boat. Extra horse power results in a larger engine, dimensionally speaking as well as weight wise.

On top of that, it seems that the "in thing" today is to forsake the smaller, lighter, two stroke engine for the four stroker. Now the owners, with their bigger, stronger, heavier new engines bemoan the fact that they're having a problem fitting them into the same well that has proved sufficient for so many years before. The larger engines also come with a larger cubic combustion area and the owners today wonder why their engines are gagging and they have to keep the lid open for needed extra air. (along with extra decibels).

Let's face the facts, these are boats that were designed 30, 35 years ago. What do you want in a boat? Unless you deliberately go and alter a perfectly good design for some other purpose in mind, perhaps it would serve the purpose better for you to go look for a boat that fulfills your desires. These are primarily SAILBOATS.

There are many sailors who hang from 2, 3, 4, or up to 5HP motors on their Ty and CD22 transoms and have little, if any, concern what others think about how it looks. And most of the long shafted engines produce hull speed at less than full throttle.

Bigger isn't necessarily better.
O J

[slaume]

Okay OJ. I often wonder how we can purchase a boat, because it was designed by a brilliant man who made his life to be the designer of boats. Said boat being built by a very reputable yard using the best of materials. These boats have now stood the test of time and passed it very well. Then we want to significantly alter that design because we think we can do a better job of it. I think additions and some augmentation may be in order. Two stern cleats on a Typhoon cone to mind. It just seems like we have some fine boats that should be left as the designer intended them to be, Steve.

[DanaVin]

We can't purchase (legally) a new 2 stroke engine in California. The only reasonable alternative was a four stroke model. We went with the Honda 5 because at the time it was 1. the largest engine we could obtain that would fit in the well without mod's, 2. it seemed like it would be powerful enough to handle most of the conditions we would be in and 3. it was on sale at a great price.
If I had thousands of miles of experience and sailed in an area that had relatively light sail and powerboat traffic, I'd much prefer a much smaller o/b or none at all (i.e. Pardey's). Unfortunately, I have neither of those conditions and therefore purchased what I felt was, at the time, the best o/b for us.
There were four main reasons for us not to mount on the transom. 1. Aesthetically, it ruins the overall appearance of the boat (in our opinion). 2. The total cost was almost equal to buying a new but smaller engine. (motor mount $170, control box $80, cables $90, remote levers $90) 3. We felt it would serious effect the sailing capabilities of the vessel and 4. Since it wasn't designed that way, we would have had to re-enforce the transom for proper mounting. A project we weren't willing to undertake. The Honda moves us at over 5.5 knots which is plenty, however, once we leave the marina it's usually shut off and not started again unless we are docking at the fuel island or at a restaurant slip. We did gain speed by filling the water holding tank in the vee berth. In fact our speed went from 5.5 to over 6 knots when sailing after this was done. The PO had raised the overall height of the engine hood by 2 or 3 inches but we still have to open it about 2" to 3" for it to breathe easier. This also makes it easier to shift the gear lever. I don't know what the db's are but it's not as noisy as one would think. I'm sure we could silence it somewhat but as I said we just don't use it all that much.
The only time I can remember using an o/b for any significant time was the 32 mile trip from Dana Point to Catalina Island on a friends small Lancer sailboat. At certain times of the year it's the only way to get there within a reasonable amount of time since the sea is like glass.
Thanks,
Dana
"Gladys Erzella", 1977 CD25, #541
San Diego Bay

[Oswego John]

Hi Dana,

I guess that you don't realize it but you are agreeing with how I feel. My thought is that the CD25 was designed with a well and that's where the motor should be mounted, not on the transom.

The Ty was not designed to have a well. If the Ty has an auxiliary motor, 99 and 44/100% of them are hung on the Ty's transom. There aren't many other viable solutions for the Ty.

Years back, I knew a fellow who despised stinkpots and anything associated with them, and flat out refused to put an outboard on his Brand X sailboat. He used a canoe paddle to maneuver. (I wonder if he ever got up to hull speed.)

Getting back to what you were saying, I do remember hearing or reading that California has some stringent laws in re ecology Sometimes you have to do the best you can under those circumstances. I sometimes wonder how often others circumvent the law by buying their motor out of state or grandfathering in an older motor.

If your 5HP fits in the well and gives you enough push, what more can you ask for?

Ho ho ho
O J

[Will Wheatley]

Stadel designed the CD25 with a well for the auxiliary motor. That design stood the test of time for about 30 years with little complaint

Alberg designed the Ty and the CD22 with the intent that if the owner desired an auxiliary engine, it would be hung on the transom.

Lately, more and more is said about the negative appearance, trim, aesthetics, squat, etc., etc. of a transom mounted motor. I certainly hope that these complaints are reserved for the CD25s.
O J

At least in my case I am definately talking 25. I guess I choose a longwinded way of saying the same thing. George Stadel designed the Greenwich 24 with an engine well. This mold became the mold for the CD25. By moving the motor so far aft with the leveragre it would have hanging off the transom there is little doubt that one would be changing the basic numbers in regards to COG and COE. The negative affects of thiese changes may be minimal but it is still a design departure from what the designer intended.

Same is true for the Alberg boats. He intended the engine to hang off the back. Moving the engine would be changing the intent of the designer and thus changing the performance of the boat, although it may be less noticable when you are talking 4hp or smaller.

As far as asthetics go, well I will not disparage others but I like the engine hidden in the well

Happy Sailoring~~~~/)~~~~

[Oswego John]

Hi Will,

Aren't you the observant one? Good catch. Thanks for pointing out my oversight that Stadel designed the Greenwich 24, which later became the CD25.

Ho ho ho,
O J

[Jim Davis]

To reduce electrolysis you can put a zinc on the cavitation plate. Get the largest that will go on the top and drill the necessary mounting holes. Cavitation plates are solid so you aren't hurting anything. Remember an outboard's lower unit is a mix of aluminium, stainless and plain steel. It wants protection, the newer motors have a small zinc but if the motor is going to be wet for long periods of time this is a cheap fix. Also back when I owned a 25, I covered the lower unit with water pump grease. It didn't stop fouling, but made it a lot easier to clean.

Jim Davis
S/V Isa Lei

[Rick]

What make engine bracket do you have on your CD 22? Is it one of those spring assisted raise/lower type brackets, hydraulic or fixed mounted and you just tilt your engine out of the water. To the other respondents, again no one addresses the reality of the size of the new outboards and how to mount them. Not everyone can sail on and off their moorings or only require a small outboard. Beauty is one thing, practicality is another. Does anyone know if an 8hp Yamaha will fit into a CD 25 motor well?

My father has a CD 25 that we are finally going to get in the water early this coming spring. One reason it hasn't made it into the water in many years is because the 1979 Evinrude 9.9 engine we had didn't make it through a cold winter a few, (Several ) years back. Although it's possible to purchase refurbished outboards that will fit into the engine well, my father didn't feel comfortable buying something like that for reliability issues. Approx. three months ago my father and I were faced with the same problem you are trying to figure out. I'll spare you all of the cuss words, sweat, tears, and dribble that was said. In the end we purchased a 2005 Mercury 15 hp long shaft and seperately bought the electric start kit so we can still charge our batterys. If we were rich we would have bought 3 of those motors. We were told that the two stroke motors were being fazed out for 2006, but I don't if that was dribble too. The engine fits perfectly. The throttle control fits in the well just as it should, and we're thinking this motor must be to some degree more quiet than the last. Hope this can help.

[bill2]

As the former owner of a cd22 and the new owner of a cd25 I'm looking forward to an ob in the well for one reason. On the water, even with a long shaft, my cd22 would lift the prop out of the water when hobby horsing and usually at the worst time like powerboat wakes and more. I am most hopeful that the cd25 reduces that drastically because the prop is further inboard - not the farthest out as an appendage hanging off the stern - my two cents FWIW. I guess I'll know for sure on her first launch ( for me ) this spring.

Happy holidays to all . . .


( OJ - well said )

[Dick Fredricks]

As posted elsewhere, I suggest that you acquire a Mercury 9.9 or 15 HP 2 stroke before they are no longer available. While not fitted with electric start, you can retrofit an alternator for battery charging. Most significant, they fit in the CD 25 well perfectly! We acquired one this past summer via West Marine.

Dick

[oldragbaggers]

We had a Bristol 24 with an outboard well. There is a rail mount outboard bracket that you can purchase at West Marine, that you mount on the stern pulpit (if you have one). When sailing the motor was in the well, as soon as we docked we pulled it out of the well and set it on the pulpit bracket then locked it to the pulpit with a cable. It worked very well for us. You can see the bracket I am talking about online at
http://www.westmarine.com/webapp/wcs/st ... ctId=45429

Good luck,
Becky