Bilge pump size

[Al Z]

Does anyone know how to match gallons per hour to bilge pump horse power. What size breaker or fuse and what size wire is used for what size pump. What is a good, dependable brand pump to use for a Ty. Thanks. Al

[slaume]

Just wondering where the water and battery power are coming from? We always had a tall hand pump with a hose clamped on it. The suction end went into the bilge access and the hose went into the cockpit. Unless the boat were caught with the hatch open in a heavy rain there was never anything to pump. How do you keep your battery charged? I still do not have an electric pump even on a bigger boat, Steve.

[Al Z]

Hi Steve
At present time my Ty uses a garden tractor battery for when I get caught and need running lights. Also want to pass USCG inspection because I have an outboard motor.
I have a manual bilge pump like yours. Because of age and some medical problems I plan to install a new electric start motor with a generator. I know that I probably need a larger battery,
I have no real bilge water problem. I'm just thinking *what if*. I read somewhere that a smaller boat should have a bigger pump than a larger boat because the same size hole will sink it faster.
I'm trying to find out what size pump I should get, what size fuse or breaker and what size wire I should use. For health issues I want an electric pump.
Can anyone tell me how to match HP to gallons per hour pumps.
Thanks , Al

[Tim Mertinooke]

I keep a manual bilge pump onboard like most people who own a Ty. THey work well, but you need to have access to the cockpit for the discharge hose while pumping. If for some reason water was entering your boat while underway, removing your hatchboards leaves you vulnerable if you are sailing in wild conditions or if it is pouring out. Electric bilge pumps are nice, but a Ty typically doesn't have an efficient way to keep the batteries fully charged when a load is placed on them like an electric bilge pump. I have been looking at manual bilge pumps that can be accessed in the cockpit. Has anyone ever installed one of these in their boats? One that I am considering is the Gusher Urchin. I posted a picture below. I would be very interested in hearing about experiences people have such pumps. To me simple is always better and these manual pumps seem to be just that.

[Peter Drake]

Hi Tim:

I think the bigger issue would be getting pooped by a monster wake, or whatever. Those two small cockpit drain scuppers, hoses, and seacocks don't move a large volume of water very quickly. That Whale Urchin pump is nice, but won't drain the cockpit.

I do have a manual hand pump. I only use that for the small amount of rainwater runoff that sneaks into the bilge. Otherwise, my bilge stays pretty dry.

I suppose, in the case of a below-the-waterline leak, the Whale Urchin pump could be handy. I've actually thought about installing one, running the bilge drain hose to a bronze thru-hull centered low on the transom overhang. Sounds like a good winter weekend project.

P-

[winthrop fisher]

hey,

here you go;

mayfield up to 750 gph, 5 amps fuse.

rule 350, 500, 750 gal, 5 amp fuse.
rule 1100 and up 10 amp.

attwood up to 700 gal, 5 amp.
1100 gal and up 7 or 10 amp.

jabsco pumps 10 to 15 amp, there are two sizes pumps.

par pumps are the same in amps 10 to15 amps.

all hand pumps, are just that.

i carry two 500 rule pumps with a flow switch and two hand pumps both gusher pumps one in side and one out side in the cockpit.

how thats for you.
winthrop

[winthrop fisher]

hey Peter and others,

for your cockpit,

i put a 350 rule in the forward end of the cockpit on the sole in the corner.

so when you get too much water, the pump will pump it all out.

it works great and it only takes a 3 amp fuse,
it's for a jet ski.
winthrop

[Tim Mertinooke]

Winthrop, Thanks for the bilge pump list you posted. What a great idea to have a bilge pump in the cockpit itself.

Peter, relying on those little drains after being pooped is a scary thought. My plan for next winter is to increase the size to 2" using a Groco 2" BV series seacock. It will be a tight fit, but I have measured and it looks like it will work allowing full access for their maintenance as well. This will be a much more seaworthy setup. This may seem overkill to some, but I really want to make this boat as safe as I can because my family and I use it often.

[Peter Drake]

Hi guys:

Winthrop, I like the idea of a pump in the cockpit. Dick Barthel and I got pooped so bad on his CD25D, in Narragansett Bay, that it would've sent the Typhoon to the bottom of the sea. It was a 75' luxury yacht going way too fast, creating a monster wake that just curled up and broke on our stern quarter. Problem is, I don't have an electrical system. Another whole can of worms, I'm afraid...

Tim, your idea is a good one. I just replaced my entire cockpit drain system last spring. I regret not going up a few sizes. It's fine at the mooring, handling rainwater. But, I fear what might happen getting pooped out there by myself. Could be a little scary.

P-

[Oswego John]

Hi Al

Because you mentioned age and medical constraints now affecting your sailing decisions, I think I have a good idea where you're coming from. Being too old or not as strong today as you once were aren't good enough excuses to toss in the towel on sailing. Of course, you have to use common horse sense and remove blind ego when you make this decision.

Hanging over the fantail of a rocking Ty, tugging on a starter rope of a recalcitrant engine that simply refuses to start, is no place for anyone who is physically, medically or otherwise challenged. In my mind, buying a new electric start engine is a good idea.

I think you should do a little homework before selecting a motor. Try to find one that you can attach remote controls to and operate from the cockpit. It should have F-N-R. Leaning over the stern of your Ty, rotating your outboard 180° is no place for you. In your purchase decision, include a generator or alternator for battery charging and other uses.

I feel that anyone who is compromised in any way should try his best to avoid solo sailing. No matter how small the boat is, have on board a GPS and a radio transceiver to call for help if necessary. At the very least, have access to a cell phone. Make sure that someone knows of your ETD and your ETR and your intended area of sailing.

Having this equipment on board won't do one iota of good if the crew doesn't know how to operate them, drop the sails or operate the engine.

As one gets older, there are plenty of quality sailing opportunities ahead. Back off a notch or two and enjoy them all. Live your life so that you can tell some good stories, spin some yarns later down the road of life.

Best regards,
O J

[Al Z]

Thanks guys for the info and thoughts. Now to get started on my off season projects. Next order of business is to hit the catalogs.
Al

[winthrop fisher]

Hi...

just go to 1"1/2 or 2 inch will do it and besides there is just the right size room under there for it.

i have the two 1 1/2 inch and two in the stern of the cockpit, as well. thats all i did.

besides the one rule pump with flow switch, i left that out, sorry.

that way when a wave comes over the stern,
between all four of them and the pump, it will dump the cockpit fast.
if you do that,
you will see for your self, how fast she will pump it all out.

i think, i told you guys that happen to me some time a go and the wave took the out board motor with it, thats hows i found out that i had core root in the stern section of the boat, that was the worse trip i ever had.

holding the motor with one hand and steering the boat with the other and siting in that large hole in the aft section where the motor was before, and don't forget i still had to go two miles back to my slip and the whole time my wife was smiling real big ever time she look at me, she said later after we got back, it was funny.

try doing that one.

you find out that you can do things in a split sec.

well have a happy holidays.
winthrop

[Tim Mertinooke]

Winthrop, I considered adding two more cockpit drains in the aft section of the cockpit sole myself because like I mentioned earlier one of my biggest fears is taking a wave over the stern and losing some serious buoyancy. Did you add two new thru-hulls in addition to the ones that were there originally to accomidate the new drains, or did you simply connect the new drains to the existing thru-hulls with some sort of y-valve? Do you have pictures of your setup? I would thoroughly appreciate seeing them if you do. Thanks. Tim

[winthrop fisher]

Hey Tim,

what i did was add two thru hull fitting on the out side of the boat just above the water line.

so you have two on the inside and two on the outside of the boat and six feet of bilge hose and a tube 3M4200.

so when you tack the water runs out, one way or the other or if you have allot of rain it runs out as well.

i did that over twenty years ago and works great.

there is one on each side the tiller which i used plastic and the two on the outside are bronzes.

i will get you a picture.

it took me about twenty mins to put it in.
winthrop

Winthrop, I considered adding two more cockpit drains in the aft section of the cockpit sole myself because like I mentioned earlier one of my biggest fears is taking a wave over the stern and losing some serious buoyancy. Did you add two new thru-hulls in addition to the ones that were there originally to accomidate the new drains, or did you simply connect the new drains to the existing thru-hulls with some sort of y-valve? Do you have pictures of your setup? I would thoroughly appreciate seeing them if you do. Thanks. Tim

[Oswego John]

Tim,

I appreciate your concern about taking a following wave. There is a big difference in the volume of collected rainwater your self bailing system can handle and getting your cockpit pooped, or swamped.

Adding extra drains in your sole and using wye fittings to tie them into the existing thru-hull fittings will be of little benefit to the situation. The circular area of the existing thru-hulls can only handle a certain volume of drain water at gravity pressure no matter how many extra drains feed into it.

To increase volume flow, you should consider increasing the diameter of the existing thru-hulls. This means that the size of the drains and connecting hoses must be increased accordingly. See Didereaux's (sing. poss.?) post on Dec. /02/ 05 regarding this matter.

Another alternative to increasing cockpit drain, as Winthrop mentions, is to add additional drains and thru-hulls. We're talking about a Ty, correct? It is not inconceivable for someone to be caught in heavy weather in a smaller boat. This type of situation does have it's problems.

I'm not about to deliver a safety lecture now but I will say that in rough weather sailing the compainway drop boards should be in place and secured, whether you are on one side of them or another.

So what happens when you get pooped and the cockpit is up to the coaming boards in water? The aft end squats lower in the water and the buoyant bow rises. A dozen rainwater drains won't be of any help if the drains and thru-hull outlets are beneath mean sealevel. It is time to keep the hull as even as possible and man the pumps, manual and electric, even a pail.

In a dire situation like this, don't even consider the thought of crossing the hoses or not, although the despised (by some) check valves could save the day in more ways than one. Larger ships can use scuppers with one way, high volume, hinged gates. I can't imagine these on a Ty, although I guess that anything is possible.

Just some variations on a theme.
O J