Typhoon Handling, Performance Questions

[Scott]

This is a great CD website and I appreciate the chance to browse it, learn about the different models, reac the older messages on the board, and ask questions to experienced CD skippers. Thanks.

I sort of have my eye on the Typhoon because of the size. I think all the CD's have a gorgous classic look to them.

How much side slip does a Typhoon experience? I have a 25' shoal winged keel boat, 26" draft, and there is a lot of side slip. I'm guessing from the massive keel under the Typhoon that side slip is minimal when compared to a shoal keel.

How does the Typhoon and Sr. react to puffs? Again to compare, my shoal keel boat heels suddenly and rounds up, often violently. If I leave the boom out and not run close hauled, then the rounding up is lessened but then I can't point as well. I have watched other skippers in that same situation and their boats just heel in the puff, and then speed up, not round up.

At what point do you normally, if there is such a value, reef for singlehanded sailing? Come to think about it, does it have reefing points in the sail?

I only have experience with my 25' keel boat, so I have to ask, does the Typhoon or Typhoon Sr. tip over?

How much can you comfortably heel? Can you get the gunnel touching the water?

Is the Typhoon or Ty Sr. ok with 20 to 25 knot winds?

When I look for a CD, are there any special potential problem areas that I should be aware of? Or what should I focus on? Is rot a typical issue? How are the hulls holding up? I only have experience with a nearly new keel boat, and none with a 25-30 year old boat.

Thanks for all your comments. While I've been sailing a keel boat for only 3 years, I've been sailing and racing catamarans for 22 years.

[Joe Montana]

Scott, I think you would be pleasantly surprised by the sailing characeristics of the Typhoon. I have singlehanded in the conditions you describe ( 20-25 knots). In those situations I would reef the furling jib somewhat (which is only slightly larger than a working jib completely unfurled) as well as put a reef in the main. Reefed that way, the boat is very well behaved and manageable. You can bury the rail if you set out to do that, but I'd consider that a sign that I should be reefed. The Ty points and tracks well, and in puffs I think you would experience acceleration you are looking for, but not as noticeably as you would experience acceleration on, for example, a Pearson Ensign. If you're looking for a very lively feel (as you might be coming from a catamaran), consider the Ensign (24 feet vs the Ty's 19.5). I would describe the feel of the Ty as more "sedate" by comparison (this comment might prompt some debate from other Ty owners, but it's how I'd compare the two boats). Naturally pressure on the tiller increases in strong puffs, as the boat wants to head up; however, it is not the quick rounding-up you describe. I find my boat (the daysailer version with a deeper cockpit) to be fairly dry, as well, although when beating into a chop in that amount of wind you can expect some spray. In a nutshell, Typhoons are a joy to sail as well as look at. Good luck!

[Tim Mertinooke]

I posted this link a while back during a spring Nor'easter in Massachusetts to show how my Ty was riding the storm. Wind gusts peaked over 60mph many times over a three day period at a weather station located 2 miles from where my boat was moored. Although the boat was in the river, there was still enough fetch to have waves in excess of 4 feet at times (look closely in the background of one of the pictures, there is a pearson 36 underwater with its mast sticking out). In fact the one person that dared to take his inflatable out to check his boat (there were only three in the water at the time) flipped it over backward as he went over a wave and the wind caught the bottom. He held on for dear life as he drifted back toward the dock to safety (ironic isn't it that he was in a boat and prayed for a lee shore to survive). The pictures don't do justice to what this boat went through in detailing how it handled the elements. Let me say though that everyone at the yacht club watching this thing pitch and roll saw a boat that was well designed and well built. She held her own. My boat went a few rounds with Neptune those few days, but when I gave her a good lookover after the winds and waves subsided, there wasn't one drop in the bilge and everything looked fine. I sailed that boat for four more months without incident. Although this boat was not designed for blue-water cruising, well maintained and in the right hands many salty skippers agree that that little thing could make some real offshore passages. In fact some have. I hope this gives you an idea to the seaworthiness and construction of these mini-yachts. Keep in mind however that the Cape Dory Typhoon isn't just a beautiful boat that is solidly constructed with good sailing characteristics, it is a boat that connects with people at an emotional level. I am yet to meet an owner of a Cape Dory Typhoon that is not attached to her emotionally. It's that kind of boat. Tim

http://www.saillesson.com/Typhoon.html

[orcassailor]

We fell in love with our Typhoon when we saw her tied to a mooring in our local bay. We pursued her owner until she was ours! In light air she moves silently without any sense of motion. In 10 kts. you are really moving! Great big-boat feel. She has a sturdy, safe, comfortable slow motion like a horse galloping. When the wind picks up is when Typhoons really show their stuff. These little boats will happily take way more wind and wave than the average sailor wants. Speed? Well, they are short so that limits their maximum speed. However, there is a Herreshoff 12 1/2 that we regularly trounce! Docking is a breeze. The extra weight (for a boat of this size) aids in the final feet and the rudder is big enough to give very good handling at these slow speeds.
Trim and helm feeling? Light weather helm in all conditions. When a puff hits she leans over as she picks up speed. No fighting a tiller, no dramatic change in helm pressure.
We have used our Typhoon for the past two years to teach people of all ages to sail. Last summer 6 and 10 year old brothers were sailing her without me touching anything!
You can't help getting attached to these beautiful little boats.
Alas, ours is for sale as you can see in an earlier posting. Why? For us we need a larger cockpit in our primary trainer. Something that will fit four adults and myself. The Typhoon cockpit was just a little too small.

[Scott]

Thanks Antares, Tim, and Orcasailor for your comments and information on the Typhoon boat handling. AFter seeing some photos of a Typhoon on a trailer, I'm convinced that the Typhoon is more like a keel with a hull sitting above it rather than the otherway around


Sure I would expect the big keel to help it track straighter (less side slip), and be more robust in a puff.

As far as boat speed, my 26' keel boat has a knotmeter so I can readout what the meter says. In a 15-20 knot blow I don't think I got over 5 knots but maybe once, going down wind. Upwind, maybe 4.5 knots. My keel boat trys to round up to hard on a puff, so I don't get that acceleration I'm looking for, then to keep the boat from heeling to abruptly, I need to either reef early, 15 knots, or let the sheet out which just slows the boat down. And in those puffs, I have to oversteer alot (wheel steering) to keep the boat on course, and that just creates more drag.

I'd like to find out what the Typhoon and Ty SR/CD22 boat speed might be in a 15 knot blow. I'm just trying to get a feel for what is 'fast' . I noticed the PHRF is something like 318.

Wow, 20-25 knot blow singled handed, and in control. Good skippering and a stable boat for sure!

Yes I"m looking for a lively sail, but I still have my catamaran for that. I'm looking for a fast enough fun stable sail. Im thinking that the Ty and Ty SR/CD22 would be plenty of adventure. If racing was my main focus, I'd probably buy a J22. The PHRF suggests J22's are rockets at around 168.

Then there's your comment about the TY being a job to look at. No kidding, they are a beautiful boat. There is something special about her clean long lines, classic look. She's a magnet.

Yes I believe the TY is not a blue water cruising boat and thats fine. I sail a 2200 acre inland lake, along with several other TY's it turns out. I just want boat performance that allows me to stay out in the bigger winds with the rest of the boats.

Thanks for your comments on heeling too. THats what I'm looking for, heeling instead of rounding up.

THanks again for your comments.

[David Hest]

Scott,

The theoretical maximum hull speed of a Typhoon, based on a hull speed calculator turned up via Google, is 4.92 knots. 5.46 knots for a Ty Sr/22. Depending on point of sail & sail square footage, you could achieve these speeds in a 15-knot wind. Your current boat certainly is faster, but given the size of the lake you sail on, a good argument can be made for a slower boat (assuming the boat meets your other requirements) since you eat up the lake at a slower pace. Also, from my experience, a smaller boat (given similar designs) tends to feel at least as fast as a bigger boat, since you are closer to the water, etc. For a speed thrill, you have your catamaran.

Daivd

[Paul D.]

Scott,

I sailed a Ty for four years and had her out in some big cold stuff. Being a sailing instructor and USCG captain, I have sailed a few different types of small boats. I can promise you the TY or closely sized CD's will all be similar in sail handling and "feel" and these will differ greatly from other small boats.

What the other owners say here are correct, light helm, steady scend and solid tracking. The leeway is greater than a dedicated fin keeled racer like a Sonar, (Another great small boat, just different) but in my opinion excellent with the depth of her keel. I found with a mainsail that is not too baggy and trimmed properly, the weather helm is almost nil. Perfect for the feel of a tiller. Most people I have seen over trim their main and it only increases that helm. I have taught on 21 ft Beneteau's and Compacts that just round up whenever a gust comes along, really unnerving. The TY is much better behaved especially with newer sails.

The TY will heel over till the rail is in the water then sit there and power forward in all winds you are likely to encounter. I had two reefs in my main and used them often. In fact, sometimes I would reef the main and use the full genny and just fly along. My brother had a speedo on his TY and we clocked 6 knots frequently.

What a sweet boat! When we finished the complete refit of HORNET (Found her in a field needing TLC) we drove her down to the lake and I swear a dozen people commented on how lovely she was. That was when she was still on the trailer. Admittedly, I was pulling her with an old VW Rabbit diesel, which may have raised eyebrows. But all eyes went for the TY.

So, in summary, the TY is a very beautiful (Especially with the ABI round bronze portlights!) boat that is well-designed to sail well and stable for most conditions and all points of sail. It is not a racer, nor floating RV. She is a sailboat for sailors and their families. A compromise of all things, without compromise.

I you sail one, you will probably go for it,
Paul

[Scott - Freezing in MN]

the PHRF for my 26' Keel boat and its .270. I also note that 270 is the PHRF for a 22' TY Senior.. chuckle.. chuckle...

My keel boat has a shoal draft winged keel, and draws only 26".
The boat responds to puffs just like Paul said he experienced on 21' Beneteau's and Compacts, heeling to fast, and only for a brief instant, followed up by suddenly and sometimes violent rounding up, no speed increase. I have watched other keel boats closely to see how they react to the same puffs. Often I saw only a little heading up, but major sustained and controlled heeling, and a sudden acceleration that was maintained without rounding up. This is why I'm asking so many questions about handling and speed. hold a bearing, and scream across the lake. I want to make sure the CD with its longer keel yields this sort of 'proper behavior' in puffs.

So I guess I'm thinking that the TY Sr will yield about the same boat speed as my current keel boat, and the TY might be just a little slower.

David, I agree with ur comments about a smaller with a cockpit closer to the water can give a feel of perceived faster speed as well. So it seems reasonable that the TY can achieve 4 knots in 15 knot winds. I think thats good.

ON Pauls comment about doing 6 knots on the Ty, it reminds me of a local legend. Two guys on our lake were clocked on Police radar doing 129 mph in a two seater Nite iceboat. They admit that it was dangerous and they shouldn't have been out in that wind. Major understatement. I know one of the guys personally and believe the story.

Thanks guys for your advice, comments, knowledge. I'll be spending the winter learning more about the CD history, models, details, etc. I have this habit of researching things to death so I'll end up knowing more about the Cape Dory than I probably need to, but I sure love to learn

One last comment. Even though winter is approaching Minnesota and the boats are put away for the winter, I've got a Nite iceboat and ice sailing season approaches. Last winter I sailed the last two weeks in December and nearly all of January. It was incredible. NOthing like cruising 70 mph down the lake, laying on your back, maybe 6" off the ice .. Keeps the blood moving