Shroud Failure

[Guest]

Has anyone experienced shroud failure, and if so:
Please tell mode of failure?
Did the cable pull out of its socket??

How do they fail anyway?

Thanks,

Bill

[Neil Gordon]

Has anyone experienced shroud failure, and if so:
Please tell mode of failure?
Did the cable pull out of its socket??

How do they fail anyway?

The question seems to come up here every once in a while, but there doesn't seem to be a case that's been reported here.

Is there more to your quetion? Something in particular that you are concerned about?

[David van den Burgh]

This is not an original rigging failure, but it's on the topic: Greg Kozlowski's experience with rigging failure - stalok

[Guest]

Has anyone experienced shroud failure, and if so:
Please tell mode of failure?
Did the cable pull out of its socket??

How do they fail anyway?

The question seems to come up here every once in a while, but there doesn't seem to be a case that's been reported here.

Is there more to your question? Something in particular that you are concerned about?

Well yes, I just bought a 30 footer and the guy who sold it to me said that he replaced the standing rigging 5 years ago.

A visual turned up nothing bad.

A rigger in Boston quoted me a price of $1,200.00 to replace.
So the question is:

Christmas presents for the grand-children, -or- standing rigging??


Bill

[Nancy Gee Lewis]

Inspection of the swage area with magnifying glass should eliminate any failure on CDs, along with reefing early......I did
have a forestay unwind some this year though, but that is after 27 years of usage......so now have new bobstay and forestay .....

Good luck with getting an answer as I have none......

[barfwinkle]

So the question is:

Christmas presents for the grand-children, -or- standing rigging??

Standing Rigging

[Oswego John]

Hi Bill,

I have a Ty Weekender that was built in 1969. In the late 1980s, I had new standing rigging installed after about 20 years use of the original rigging.

About two years after the new rigging was installed, I received a call from the dockmaster that my boat had trouble. When I arrived at the marina, I saw that the deck and port side looked like a bowl of spaghetti, cables laying every which way.

Upon further checking, the shrouds and stays were still in great shape bur a bronze, open turnbuckle on the port side snapped in half. As a result, the mast snapped in two about 20" above the cuddy.

I don't sail hard or push the boat to it's limits. I've never overcanvased the Ty, just a main and a loosefooted working jib.

After all these years, I still have a gnawing thought stuck in my craw, was this caused by rigging failure or possibly sabotage? If one turnbuckle on the port side parted, I still had a second shroud to keep the mast erect.

Secondly, since the Ty was tied up in it's slip, it had no sails up, was bare poled. Since it was a port turnbuckle that parted, it seemed to me that the wind would be coming from the port side to strain the turnbuckle. When I found the boat dismasted that morning, the upper mast had fallen to port. The stbd shrouds were still attached to the upper mast. I'll be dipped if I can figure that one out. It's all history now.

So what I'm saying is that maybe the rigging cables might be in great shape, the hardware and other associated fittings bear checking out, too.

FWIW, when I checked out the broken turnbuckle, it looked like there was a discoloration in the crack, sort of like a sintered metallic appearance, a flaw waiting to let loose.

Whatever?
O J

[Guest]

I purchased my 1987 CD36 last spring and the standing rigging replacement was my first project. Survey revealed (and was easily visible to anyone's eyes that looked) cracks in the lower swaged terminals on 3 of the shrouds. Cracking in this location is typically corrosion induced, since moisture runs down the wire and into the top of the swaged fitting. I replaced all wires and turn-buckles. They original bronze turnbuckles looked OK, but would likely have come the 'weak link' in my rigging. Shroud attachment points at mast and deck also warrant careful inspection.

Doug

SAILFISH
CD36 #147

[Guest]

I purchased my 1987 CD36 last spring and the standing rigging replacement was my first project. Survey revealed (and was easily visible to anyone's eyes that looked) cracks in the lower swaged terminals on 3 of the shrouds. Cracking in this location is typically corrosion induced, since moisture runs down the wire and into the top of the swaged fitting. I replaced all wires and turn-buckles. They original bronze turnbuckles looked OK, but would likely have come the 'weak link' in my rigging. Shroud attachment points at mast and deck also warrant careful inspection.

Doug

SAILFISH
CD36 #147

Doug, Oh! thats a very good point. The bottom swedge, just above the turnbuckle faces up.
Water seeping down the cable inside the swedge and between the strands collects, and in the winter it freezes, and pop goes the base of the swedge; same with the bottom of the turnbuckle at the thread. (As I see it, IMHO)
Bill

[Oswego John]

Hi,

For the life of me, I can't seem to remember what was used to seal the swage at the point of cable entry. It was a waxlike substance, I think maybe it was heated.

Anyway, a dam was built up around the top of the swage with duxseal, a pliable putty, and the liquid (whatever it was) was poured on the stranded cable to fill the voids and would run as far as possible into the swage to seal it off from moisture penetration.

I first saw this process applied to aluminum, high voltage transmission lines that span East to West across the Hudson River. Depending on load and ambient temperature, the aluminum termini are subject to expansion and contraction and mechanical breakdown from aluminum oxidation.

I realize that aluminum isn't the metal of choice for stays and shrouds but maybe the method of preventing moisture from entry into a swaged or mechanical termination might be worth consideration.

Maybe some of the readers can contribute to this and help me recall what the sealant was

To the best of my knowledge, after about forty years, those highlines are still in continuous use to this day.

FWIW
J D

[Guest]

My Rigger actually recommended 'bees wax' to seal the top of the swage fitting where the wire enters. He said it contained no substances that might further contribute to corrosion of the stainless. Have not tried this yet.

Doug

CD36 SAILFISH

[guest]

Depending on the diameter of your stays, they are generally made up of 18 individual wires. In your hand, gently run a piece of brass wool up and down the stay. If any sticks it's an indication that one of the strands is either broken or comprimised. Bees wax is your best bet to seal the top of the turn buckle before taping in the spring. Stainless buckles generally corode from the inside out. Even the closest inspection may not catch a problem developing.

[Carter Brey]

I've been using anhydrous lanolin to waterproof my swages. Any opinions about that compared to beeswax? Better, worse, the same?

Thanks
Carter

[Jim Lewis]

I am not a rigger but have found out that the quality of the swage is what determines the hold and how long it lasts as long as proper marine materials are used. The die for the roller swage is a very costly item, and only the high volume rigging shops can bear this cost. The local guy may not go thru the expense until absolutely necessary, therefore the quality of the swage may be less than a newer die.....maybe sealing the lower swage may help, but it seems like proper materials and proper swages will last in excess of 20 years......with no real maint other than good inspection for cracks......the bobstay is another matter, I think they last about 10 years unless they are solid......good luck and as always good data from these posts......

[tartansailor]

The melting point of bees wax is 145°F while the melting point of anhydrous lanolin is 104°F both easily reached with a hair drier. The question is how hot does the metal get sitting in the hot sun?

A metallurgist friend of mine explained that metal failure analysis is a vast field in itself, not only corrosion, or the obvious water freeze, but the harmonic frequency of a vibrating shroud should not be ignored.
Also that roller swaging as opposed to compression swaging is the way to go.
His recommendation is periodic magna flux inspection.
Just think, the G.W. Bridge could be viewed as a shroud only in the shape of a catenary!
Thats cool.
Dick