Sailing down wind with a cutter

[slaume]

After much of the first season with our CD-30 cutter I have still not figured out how best to sail her down wind. The main isn't a problem except to get the boom to wing out in light air with all that line involved with the mid boom sheeting arrangement. Easy enough to push it out. It is the fore sails that I am struggling with. It always seems like there is just one sail too many. If am running directly down wind either the yankee or the staysail just seem to be flopping around and not doing much. I have a drifter and if I get rid of all the other head sails and fly that we are like a freight train. It is not good for a short run or single handed. We do not have a pole and I suspect that it would make a big difference if I could pole out the jib. Overall I am thrilled with the boat I just can't quite figure out what to do with all those sails sailing off the wind except to douse one and sail a very under canvased sloop. Still waiting for the fall winds to start, Steve.

[Jacksail]

I have a CD-30 cutter as well. However I do not have the boom for the staysail attached to the deck. It was removed before I bought the boat, and to save space I have not re-installed it. My staysail is tacked to the deck and to the traveller. The sail was refitted with a wire luff.

To be perfectly honest I have barely used the staysail more then 2 or 3 times. However I have inquired about its use.

Specifically what I have found is that the staysail is of no real value when the wind goes past 90 degrees. I don't think you can use the staysail directly down wind at all.

Additionally, I do not use the Yankee (99%) as my primary headsail. I have a 130 genoa on the roller furler. This gives me plenty of sail area and I can pole it out when way off the wind.

[Russell Skinner]

I have a 30c as well. When going down wind I take the staysail down and use the main and genoa. Your right that the staysail blocks the wind for the head sail, either yankee or genoa. If the wind is high I roll in the genoa and put up the staysail. That's just the way it is and if going dead down wind the main blocks the genoa and you have to go wing on wing. The cutter rig has it's draw backs in terms of complications, particularly tacking, but big advantages when the wind is strong.

[slaume]

Jacksail, it's too bad you do not have your staysail boom on the boat. I always start off the mooring with the main and staysail. I can back that litlle boom while up on the fore deck droping the penant and away we go. I don't unfurl the jib untill I clear the other boats in the mooring field. With the staysail I have a sort of auto tack feature that is very nice while single or short handed. The boat tacks very easily with the staysail on the boom and main. Great fun for fooling around other boats or short tacking up a channel. I really should play with that big genny, Steve.

[mahalocd36]

Hi,
Going downwind you can only have 1 or 2 of the 3 sails up.
Anyone of them alone (depending on wind speed) works. Or,
wing and wing with any 2 of them. We've gone wing and wing with the staysail and yankee (no main up) or either foresail with the main.

Hope this helps!

[fenixrises]

Hi all,

For those of you looking for a way to hold the main boom out in light going down wind.

Rig a block up forward. Run a light, say 3/8" nylon, line from a place handy to the cockpit, outboard of everything and forward to the block and then aft again, outboard of everything . To the ends of the line attach snap-shackles. Attach the leeward shackle to a bail at the end of the boom. In light going you now have a preventer/ foreguy for the main boom. When gybing switch the shackles and haul away on the new tack.

Should the boom "trip" in heavy going this light line has enough give to allow some movement of the boom.

Take care,
Fred B.

[jerryaxler]

One of the first purchases I made for my cutter was a cruising spinnaker because of the difficulty of sailing downwind in under 15kts of wind. I can sail off wind up to about 110 before I drop the foresails and raise the spinnaker.

[Cathy Monaghan]

Don't use the staysail when sailing downwind (unless it is really blowing), it will block the wind from reaching your headsail. Since the headsail is a larger sail, you usually want to get as much wind into that sail as possible.

Use both headsails when the wind is forward (from close hauled to just beyond a reach), then drop the staysail when sailing on a broad reach or farther downwind. If you're sailing dead downwind, the main will block the headsail. To fill the headsail you'll have to sail wing-on-wing.

It's also a good idea to have a cruising spinnaker for light air use. It can double your speed.

Fair winds,
Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3 (also a cutter)
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[David van den Burgh]

In the boat's original configuration, staysail and jib wing-on-wing is a nice combination when sailing dead downwind - especially if mainsail chafe is an issue, which it often is. If you still use the staysail boom, it helps to rig a preventer.



This arrangement is also easy to manage and modify.

[Cathy Monaghan]

In the boat's original configuration, staysail and jib wing-on-wing is a nice combination when sailing dead downwind - especially if mainsail chafe is an issue, which it often is. If you still use the staysail boom, it helps to rig a preventer.



This arrangement is also easy to manage and modify.

Great shot!

Yep, you can sail wing-on-wing using just the headsails but it won't work very well if the main is still up. So either douse the staysail and sail wing-on-wing with the headsail and main, or douse the main and sail wing-on-wing with the two headsails. Twin headsails (both the same size) works even better.

Another cool arrangement is something I found out about by reading John Vigor's book "Small Boat to Freedom". In it he describes the use of a twistle yard and it's one of those things that I'd like to learn more about. So John, if you see this, let us know more about the twistle yard.


Cathy

[John Vigor]

Cathy, the twin-staysail yard, or twistle yard, is without a doubt the most marvelous twin-headsail downwind rig I've ever come across. I used it for thousands of miles between the Indian Ocean and Florida in a 31-footer, as you know.

It's basically a terribly simple principle, invented by a distinguished Scots engineer and sailor called Hugh Barkla. But the big problem is that it's almost impossible to describe to people the concept of a pair of aluminum poles joined to each other with a hinge, and floating free 6 feet above the foredeck.

You need diagrams to get your synapses firing on all cylinders before you can even grasp what this is all about. If anybody is really interested they can go to their local library and get my book "The Seaworthy Offshore Sailboat" (International Marine) which devotes three whole pages, with diagrams, to the twistle yard. It also gives details of the special hinge I designed.

The wonderful thing about it is that the twin foresails lie forward in a rigid "V" and thereby damp the vicious rolling that can otherwise occur when the wind and swells are dead aft. The other handy thing about it is that it handles winds from dead aft to a very close reach. You can even beat with it, if you want, by flipping the yard around the forestay and shackling the clew of one sail to the other. No guys are needed and you can backwind the rig with impunity. In fact, you can spin the boat in a tight circle without touching a sheet.

Incidentally it's also known (wrongly) in lesser circles as a twizzle yard and there is a website that features some rather unorthodox versions of Hugh Barkla's twistle yard that might just be even more confusing at:

http://www.simetric.co.uk/twizzle_rig/index.htm

Another thing about the true twistle yard is that it's center of effort is so far forward--well in front of the forestay, mostly--that most boats will sail downwind guided by a self-steering wind-vane even in very light weather when vanes are not normally particularly useful.

John Vigor
CD27 "Sangoma"
Bellingham, WA

[Cathy Monaghan]

Hi John,

....the big problem is that it's almost impossible to describe to people the concept of a pair of aluminum poles joined to each other with a hinge, and floating free 6 feet above the foredeck.....

John Vigor
CD27 "Sangoma"
Bellingham, WA

Looking at the photo of the twistle yard setup on Freelance (the photo in "Small Boat to Freedom") it's hard to tell how the poles are joined, what keeps the "hinge" from opening/closing on its own, or how it's attached to the mast. Since you mentioned that it's "floating free", I guess it's not attached to the mast? What keeps it from banging into the mast? Thanks for the link.

I read the section on setting the twistle yard. It's confusing to me but I see that the poles are indeed floating and not attached to the mast. I guess I'll just have to purchase another one of your books. Pretty soon I'll have read them all.

Cathy
CD32 Realization, #3
Rahway, NJ
Raritan Bay

[fenixrises]

Hi all,

Back in the late 70's - early 80's a very similar system was designed by Wright Britton if memeory serves.

He used a simple double headsail sewn to a single luff and attached to a basic furling drum set-up just aft the stem. It was made from 4oz nylon with a wire luff.

The main difference was that he had the poles attached to a track on the face of the mast.

The sail could be used on the wind as a double layer drifter/reacher.

The whole system was marketed as Wright's Genny Wings.

I wonder what the differences are in the boat's handling dynamics between free-floating poles vs. fixed poles. The fixed poles would be more manageable but the free-floating may be more stable and provide a better boat ride.

Take care,
Fred B.

[John Vigor]

Cathy: I warned you. It's so simple that it's almost impossible to describe in words. At the risk of boring the socks off everybody else, let me at least try to give you the faintest inkling.

Imagine a pair of high-cut twin foresails up and flying from the same single forestay and hoisted on one halyard. (We had staggered hanks to accomplish this.) The sails are spread wing-on-wing for running dead downwind and their clews are about 6 feet above deck level so they won't dip in the water when the boat rolls.

Now imagine two aluminum poles with the outboard ends attached firmly to each clew. The inboard ends, instead of being led to the mast, are joined to each other, forming a V pointing aft. The join is accomplished with a simple hinge. The poles lie parallel to the sea surface, and thanks to the hinge, are able to spread their outboard ends wider apart or closer together.

The hinge, which forms the "elbow" of the two poles forming the yard, is actually a vertical eyebolt and an eye nut, held up in the air by a halyard of its own. I used my spinnaker halyard. From the lower side of the hinge, a 6-foot long strop runs down AND FORWARD to the stem head.

The trick that makes the twistle yard work is the fact that the combined length of the two poles is a little less than the combined spread of the two sails. Thus, by tightening the twistle yard halyard, you create a strong force to make the two poles move FORWARD AND OUTWARD until they have spread the twin foresails as flat as they will go. (I'm not shouting. It's important to visualize how the poles are forced to spread the sails by tension on their halyard and the forward lead of the bottom 6-foot strop.) Alternatively, you can leave the halyard be, and lead the strop back to a winch for greater purchase. It doesn't matter whether you tighten the halyard or the strop. But the halyard-strop combination is like the string of a bow that forces the poles out and forward until the sails won't let them go any farther.

From each clew of the sails, a sheet leads back to the cockpit. With tension on the sheets, the whole combination of sails and yard becomes rigid. You can swing it around the forestay to almost any angle simply by easing one sheet and trimming the other.

If it starts blowing hard, you can let the foresails ease forward into a shallow V, thus spilling a lot of wind, by easing both sheets and easing their halyard.

There's no way the yard can hit the mast because of the bow-string effect of the yard halyard and the forward-leading strop.
It's all swinging fee and able to take up almost any angle to the wind, from a dead run to a very close reach. Depending on the angle of the wind, you can use part or all of the mainsail with the twistle yard. We often used a double-reefed main -- it gave extra sail area without blanketing the staysails too much.

I'm not trying to sell the book. That's forbidden here. You can get it from your local library. But I urge you to read it because the lengthy description and diagrams there will make much more sense. You will smite yourself mightily on the brow when the concept finally sinks in.

The modern update of the twistle yard I used is apparently a roller-furling version with twin grooves 180 degrees apart. I don't know how that works because in my system, the spinnaker poles had to be firmly attached to the clews of the sail, not just looped over the sheets, as most spinnakers are.

In use, the sails normally take up a position angled forward about 45 degrees. Between the two of them, they thus form a partial cone, which, as you know, is one of the most aerodynamically stable forms. Thus presented to the wind, they lose some silhouette area, but they also have considerable area presented to each side, so they are able to reduce rolling. Our cook, in particular, whooped with joy when we raised the twistle yard and the boat's vile movement in bad cross-swells suddenly became so much easier.

Cheers,

John Vigor
CD27 "Sangoma"
Bellingham, WA

[Didereaux]

...no windvane necessary with a twistle rig...simply run the sheets to each side of the tiller. Just another variation on plain old twins.(pretty nearly grin)

g'luk