Analog Voltmeter Problem

[chase]

Our voltmeter on our 1980 CD30 is stock, I believe. The needle does sit farther left than seems accurate and the meter tests close to sixteen when they are topped off. THese are newer, standard marine deep cycle.

It satisfies our needs right now since we don't consume a lot. Right now I think I could run my engine every 2-3 days for a short time and top off the house battery. That has to be hard on them, though. Discharged and then charged rapidly at 50-60 amps or whatever the Yanmar pumps out. The only time I killed the battery was when I left the anchor light on all day and ran 2 fans plus nighttime cabin lights. That took two days. Apparently the anchor light is a heavy feeder. ...

Eventually I'd like to have one decent sized photovoltaic panel, a charge controller, and a voltmeter and ammeter. Perhaps one of the battery monitors would do it. I bet they're not cheap.

Chase
s/v Anne Freeman
docked downstream from Asheville, NC

[Mark Yashinsky]

OJ and Neil, about the tow generator, are we that concerned about every last .1 kt boat speed? In anything but light wind, we should have enough power to make up for the drag. Dont you think those with wind generators that run them under way are concerned about drag (or just dont know). There is also tow behind fresh water makers, where the screw on the drogue turns a pump to provide the pressure thru the membrane.
Slaume, you have AGM's and the original charging (internal) charging system??? One reason the AGM's are nice is they can absorb a tremendous amount of charging current very quickly, IF you system can be set that way and can handle the current (heat). Ideal for sailboats! For continued health of AGM's (and the similiar Gels's), a (smart) multi stage charging system is needed. Yes, its more money, and you need to analyze your entire charging system, if you go this route, so could even be more so. Also, for the same reason, be careful using automotive battery chargers on the AGM's. Search the archives about AGM's and Gel's for more info.

[rtbates]

Are you Amish?
My wife likes her Cowboy's/Longhorn's Football and with the 12V TV she's much more likely to want to spend the weekend with me anchored in that nice cove. It one of life's many compromises.

Randy 25D Seraph #161

[Oswego John]

Like Randy's wife, I follow football, but with a medium passion. I would have responded to this thread last night, except for the fact that it was Monday Night Football night. Priorities, you know. Well, it's Tuesday morning and here goes nothing in general.

Do I dare repeat the age old cliché, "You get what you pay for." You can make your boat's electrical system as exotic or as bare bones simple as you want, or should i say, as you can comfortably afford.

The red, yellow, green system is adequate for most owners. It is a better than fair indicator of the state of charge of the batteries. The analog meters are a bit more indicative of the true state of charge. And (conjunction?) then there are the digital meters that will reveal the charge to a 1/10th of a volt.

I feel that you have to decide what system do you need. What system can you comfortably afford. What system is absolutely necessary for your peace of mind and to what degree must you be aware of the absolute state of charge. How many boat units are laying in your bureau drawer?

For those whose meters seem to be off, some of the better analog meters have a calibration screw to adjust the reading. Some do, some don't have this adjustment ability. It's worth a look.

I was going to respond to the tow generating theme, but I think that I'll do it in another post later on. Mark Y, I agree with you. My sentiments, exactly.

Later,
O J

[Leo CD33]

Hi All,

This topic sure made the rounds

For those interested in 12 VDC power monitoring and management (some sort of cruising) and for those interested there are some 'primers' out there. For starters I recommend Ample Power at; http://www.amplepower.com/primer/ and Blue Sea at; http://www.bluesea.com/sections.asp.
Also 'Northern Arizona Wind & Sun' has some info at; http://www.solar-electric.com/.

Larry Demers, who posted for a while on this sight, knows all of it, but has been of the board for a while . ('EE' I believe.)

The Blue Sea is the only analog meter I would use, but the digital is the way to go.

FWIW; Evening Lights Electrical Equip:
- 'Paneltronics' 12 VDC Distribution panel - NOT recommended - esp. their meters, came w/ the boat.
- 'Amptech 123' Amp Alternator w/ double sheave - Recommended
'In-Charge' 3 stage voltage Regulator - Recommended
- 2 ea. 'Lifeline' 6 VDC AGM 220 AH (Battery Bank No. 1) - Recommended
- 1 ea. 'Interstate' ('C&D Batteries') 12 VDC AGM 100 AH (Battery Bank No. 2) - Not Recommended.
- Brand X ~Gr.24 Starting Battery
- 'Blue Sea' 8080 DC Switch Panel - Recommended
- 'Link 20' 2 battery monitor system (w/ digital meters) - Recommended
- Brand X 30 watt solar panel w/ regulator
- Hamilton Ferris Water Generator- needs to be a distance off to use this, 100 ft drive cable (~ 5 amps at 5 Kts.)

I can answer some questions about the above equipment as working on Evening Light

Fair Winds,
Leo MacDonald
S/V Evening Light
Pine Isl. Bay, Groton, CT

[Oswego John]

Leo,

Thanks for the comprehensive data. I was especially interested in your mentioning the Hamilton Ferris Water Generator.

This was what I was trying to mention in a previous post. I have the feeling that not too many people are familiar with them.

More coming on this.
O J

[Neil Gordon]

OJ and Neil, about the tow generator, are we that concerned about every last .1 kt boat speed?

I like your laid back approach. Wanna race? <g>

[Mark Yashinsky]

The one about "CD 27 - 28 comparisions??" ( http://www.capedory.org/board/viewtopic.php?t=16566 ), that is.
One comment about VOLT meters, they only give a level of the battery at that moment. You have to think about the load on the system. You can have a flashlight battery that has been sitting for a long while, and reads just about normal, but put it in a flashlight (load), nada. W/o a load, the battery's chemicals was able to put out enough to drive the voltmeter. Batteries are not linear. If you want digital, go w/ a separate battery management system that has a digital display control panel and will track CURRENT going in and out of the system (Linksys???) and leave the old voltmeter alone. Batteries would probably be MUCH happier with their treatment.

[Mark Yashinsky]

Comment about digital meters: with the number of digits displayed, people have gone crazy about hundredth volt (the second digit right of the decimal) difference. For this application, people dont need that sort of accuracy. Then there is reading the digital gauge, you have to interpet the numbers given and THINK about it, rather than "upper end of the green, I'm cool". Any complaints about the rest of the electical panel? If yes, redesign it and put a bar or graph style voltmeter in it. Dont believe there is a package product, but you (or someone handy) could make a bar style "digital" voltmeter, w/ the output as color coded leds (red, yellow, green). Thats what I did when I redid the electrical panel on S.C.. Have go from 9.7 to 16 in 1/3 volt incements, and can even get 1/6 when two leds are on. Color coded leds, and have it running up the right side of the panel, where I had room (added more breakers).

[bottomscraper]

Leo, earlier in this thread you said the following:

- 'Paneltronics' 12 VDC Distribution panel - NOT recommended - esp. their meters, came w/ the boat.

On Mahalo we have 2 small fused secondary panels made by Seadog that are total garbage. Anyway one of the tasks this winter will be to replace them with something better. Paneltronics appears to have something that will work (no meters required) but I don't want to replace garbage with more expensive garbage! Because of limited space the selection of off the shelf panels that will fit is very small. Can you elaborate on the problems with Paneltronics? Thanks!

Rich

[Andy Denmark]

Hey, Leo,

I have dealt with Paneltronics for years and installed nearly a dozen of their panels in various boats. Their technical knowledge and responsiveness has always been first class and their products are top of the line, both in appearance and functionality.

What problems have you had with them? Their customer service, at least at the trade level, is outstanding in my experience.

What gives?
________
Land rover freelander

[Parfait's Provider]

OJ,

That could have been all that would have saved me the other day when I sailed for hours only to find a dead battery when I needed to start the engine. Fortunately, I did have a second bank that was up to snuff. Maybe a spare alternator could be used with a spare prop on a spare shaft to create an emergency system for charging the batteries? Maybe one of those battery boosters isn't such bad idea after all.

[Leo CD33]

Rich, et el,

I Installed a Blue Sea (800-222-7617) ‘2 Bank Battery Switch Panel with DC Main Breaker’ P/N: 8080 <http://www.bluesea.com/product.asp?Prod ... 60&l2=7990> during the Spring 04 pre-launch cycle. It appears to be a quality panel

I also installed some of the Blue Sea main battery fuse blocks & fuses, but do not recall the part nos. but similar to the P/N: 5001, MaxiBus 250 Ampere Common BusBar P/N: 2106 and misc. other items – satisfied with it all.

Note: Their technical page at <http://www.bluesea.com/sections.asp> has good info.

Andy,

The PO had installed a Paneltronics DC Distribution Panel with digital meters, close to their P/N: 9973210B (Deluxe line I think, but that area of their website is not responding right now.)
The panel meters were out of cal, voltmeter reading approx. 0.2 to 0.25 VDC high and ammeter reading approx. 1 to 2 ADC high. The Customer Service Rep. mailed a 'calibration' sheet and with it I adjusted the voltmeter . . , the ammeter had to be replaced. A year later it was again reading ~ 2 to 3 ADC high – this meter was replaced (under warranty ) About a year after that the current ammeter was reading ~ 2 ADC high (at zero load amps) but as the electrical load increases the ammeter reading drops toward the zero and starts rising again, reading ~ 4 to 5 amps below actual load amps (at the low amp draw range.) This is indicative of the ammeter being on the wrong side of the ‘null’. I wanted to know haw to adjust the null – and NOT buy another ammeter. During a few conversations over a few months, I could not make the nice Customer or Tech Service people understand this problem description. Haven't bothered them in a while - unsure if they remain clueless.

Since then I installed a 'Link 20', reducing the panel ammeter to a secondary role. I may see if a Blue Sea meter fits in the hole 

My background been with electronics and electrical (Navy & civilian) and like most anyone can recognize quality products. My philosophy is to do it once - correct. And don't ever have to do it again!

Fair Winds,
Leo MacDonald
S/V Evening Light
Pine Isl. Bay, Groton, CT