Hand starting Farymann Diesel?????

[Ben schifano]

Hello again..... Anyone out there successfully hand crank a 11 hp Farymann diesel? I know about the compression release valve and the push in ignition switch but the baby just won't go. Any advice would be appreciated.................Ben aboard the "Donnybrook"

[John Vigor]

Hi Ben:

I had the single-cylinder Farymann in a C&C 28 for several years, and always hand-cranked it without any problems. But that was in a warm climate. I don't know where you are, but I suspect colder weather would make it harder to start.

I presume you are putting the gear in neutral and opening the throttle before operating the compression release and swinging the handle. I used to swing it over five or six times to get it going really fast before closing the compression release. That's the tricky bit, because it's important to keep winding the handle really hard after you've closed the compression release. Don't stop turning the handle when you close the release. Wait until the engine actually fires.

If it's really cold, you might have to repeat the whole procedure two or three times, as the engine gradually soaks up the heat you're creating by compression.

My Farymann never failed to start at first try. I also had a BMW 12-hp on another boat that I used to hand start all the time, and it had one great advantage. The clever BMW people put a timer on the compression release valve, so you could get both hands on the starter handle and give it all you'd got. And then, after five or six revolutions of the engine (by which time it would be moving really fast) it would automatically snap shut. The piston would come up against sudden compression and boom! you were away!

Fast cranking seems to be the main essential, and it may help if you get someone else to work the compression release valve while you swing the handle.

John Vigor
CD27 "Sangoma"
Bellingham, WA

[Bill Watson]

John
Thanks for info about hand cranking - I ran into the problem of how to keep it spinning as fast as possible and still release the compression lever this week on Kittiwake. By myself I couldn't get it to go. Would be interested in any ideas that CD owners have come up with release the compression lever while still cranking with both hands like the BMW had, MD7A or other power plants.

At least solutions short of additional people on board. I like the solitude, especially early AM while anchored out.
Peace and Fair Winds, Bill Watson

[Dennis]

I do this often,

trans in neutral, throtttle open
face the engine, left hand holding open the decompression lever, spin the crank w/ the right hand. As John metioned, 5-6 turns, getting the engine turning over as fast as you can, release the decompression.

Always starts.

[Ben schifano]

Thanxs everybody.....I took all the advice, went out to the boat , and handcranked my Farymann. Started right up, with help from the wife on the compression lever. I do have one more question. How come I can get only 1-2 seasons out of $300.00 starter?

[Oswego John]

Hi Ben,

Could you be more explicit in regard to your starter problems?
Does something break or burn out? Is the trouble in the windings, brush rigging, Bendix cone? Maybe the front or rear bearing failing? Is the trouble in the starter itself or the ring gear?

If you give us more detailed info, perhaps we can help.

Best regards,
O J

[Ben schifano]

Hi... in response to your question on what fails on the starter. Last time it was the solenoid. Turn the key...click click click. My marina stated that this starters' solenoid is internal to the starter. This failure is exactly the same on a starter that is less than 1 year old. If anyone has some idea for a permanent solution for this problem, I would appreciate it.

[Oswego John]

Hi Ben

First off, I'm not familiar with your engine or it's starter. With a few differences, most starters have similar components and do the same job. There are differences between one maker and another. Different manufacturers use different physical dimensions, shapes and bolthole measurements for various blocks and other uses. So what am I leading up to?

See if it is possible to change to a different make starter.

First of all, I think that you should do a little homework for yourself. Don't totally rely on the advice that your marina gives you. You might look in the Yellow Pages under starters/electric motors. Write down as much info as possible that is stamped on your starter. Using that data, talk to one or two motor shops and see what is available for your situation. A complete motor shop has all kinds of reference and cross reference books.

If there is such a starter with an internal solenoid within it's casing, I'm having a hard time visualizing it. I'm not saying that it doesn't exist, I'm saying that I'm not familiar with one like that. What I am thinking is that if I were you I'd exchange it for a starter that has an external, separate solenoid that is easy to check. If it should be defective, you won't have to replace the whole $300.00 unit, just buy a new solenoid at any good auto supply for maybe $15.00 plus or minus. When correctly wired, solenoids can last a very long time.

If you search the CDSOA archives, they can prove to be a treasure trove of information in regard to starter motors. Many readers have sent in tips and other useful information through the years, all very useful for the boatowners DIY work on his starter. Even if you prefer to have another person do the physical labor, the archives make you more aware of what's going on.

Before you go spending another $300.00 on another starter motor, you could try a few things first. I could spend hours going into minute detail dealing with testing your starter motor and it's solenoid. Therefor, I shall try to generalize the tests.

Check and double check both the starter control circuit wiring and it's components (key switch, push button, etc) Look for loose terminal, corroded terminals, frayed wires, anything that looks suspicious and have them remedied.

Also check the heavy current carrying cables that go from the battery(ies) to the starter solenoid. Here's where I am having a problem visualizing a heavy cable entering and being terminated to an internal solenoid. Maybe it is attached to an external buss bar which enters the starter casing???

For a solenoid to work efficiently, it must be supplied with proper operating voltage and sufficient amperage flow. If the solenoid goes click, click when activated, it is being denied one or the other ,or a combination of both necessary elements. A perfectly good solenoid can seem to be faulty if low voltage or restricted amperage prevents it to achieve the wattage that it is designed to function at.

A partly discharged or low battery will prevent it from receiving satisfactorily voltage (and amperage.) A fully charged battery cannot furnish proper voltage (and amperage) if there is high resistance in the control wiring which blocks full voltage and impedes adequate current flow. Hence, click, click in a perfectly good solenoid.

Sometimes, through the course of the years, POs have partly or totally rewired their vessels. Even following the info in the manuals in regard to what size wire to use, this info can be misconstrued in various ways which can result in using inadequately sized wire to do a specific job. By the way, too often the given wire sizes are minimums and don't allow any margin for error. The biggest error in wiring low voltage (!2 V) is not allowing for proper footage and forgetting to figure in the return ground path. By using a too small a conductor, it acts as a resistor and prevents the required amps to flow.

Another point to consider is the return paths of the starter control circuit as well as the heavy current draw of the starter moter, itself. This return flow can be jeopardized by poor grounds, either at the block or by dirty battery post contacts. As was recently mentioned by a contributor, sometimes it is difficult to determine why the return ground is poor. He mentions that there might be a cracked grounding plate at the block.

Others have mentioned the use of meters to check your electrical system. Sometimes the meter you use doesn't have a range high enough to measure certain things, such as the high amperage that the starter motor draws. Used as an ammeter, the meter is usually hooked up in series with the circuit that is being tested. What I do is use a clamp-on meter that surrounds the individual conducter and it measures the inductance that eminates from the conducter under load. These clamp-ons can be rented, sometimes free with a deposit, from many auto parts supply shops. Advanced Auto and Car quest for example.

There is so much more to tell you, but let me say one more thing. Before you spend another $300.00, get a #12 AWG or larger jumper of copper stranded wire, long enough to conveniently reach from your positive battery post directly to the solenoid feed terminal at the starter motor. Jump the battery to the solenoid and see if it does more than click, click.

This thing can go on for much longer. I hope others will jump in and relate what I haven't mentioned. or improve what I have.

Good luck,
O J