During a complete refit, while rebedding a forehatch that a previous owner installed, I was not surprised to find about a square foot of saturated balsa core. It turns out that the deck cleat was not bedded when reinstalled! I have scraped as much of the wet core out as possible and am drying it out. I intend to drill some 1/4 inch holes in the top layer of deck and squirt epoxy into the void when dry as in those fibreglass repair books. The foredeck is sound besides this area. Anyone know the secrets to this job? If I get it right I promise to share any info learned (after we go sailing at least once!)Rest of the boat is coming along, all deck fittings off for teak refinishing and rebedding, seacocks coming out to get new ball valves, toerails being scraped and finished, etc., etc..
This webpage has and no doubt will continue to be a valuable source of information and support.
Paul Danicic
Typhoon #1178
HORNET
nyeme001@tc.umn.edu
Typhoon Refit-Rotten Deck Core
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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DON
Re: Typhoon Refit-Rotten Deck Core
PAUL - I HAD A SURVEYOR CHECK OPUT A TYPHOON I WQAS ABOUT TO BUY AND HE FOUND THAT MOST OF THE SIDE DECKS AND THE TRANSOM DECK HAD WET CORES. HE TOLD ME THAT IF I WERE TO BUY THE BOAT THE DECKS COULD BE PROFESSIONALLY REPAIRED AT A COST OF ABOUT $2200. HE MENTIONED THAT THE REPAIR TECHNIQUE INVOLVED GETTING THE BOAT INSIDE DRY STORAGE, DRILL HOLES ON THE HIGH SAID OF THE SATURATED AREA, INJECT ALCOHOL TO SPEED UP EVAPORATION OF THE MOISTURE, AND WHEN THE CORE WAS DRY FLOW IN SOME PENETRATING EPOXY. I DIDN'T BUY THE BOAT SO I NEVER GOT TO TRY HIS SUGGESTION. I BELIEVE WEST SYSTEMS INSTRUCTION BOOK HAS SOME SUGGESTIONS ON THE SUBJECT ALSO THERE BOOKLET I FREE I BELIEVE . GOOD LUCK
DON ..
DONJOECAM@AOL.COM
DON ..
Paul D. wrote: Paul Danicic
Typhoon #1178
HORNET
DONJOECAM@AOL.COM
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cyrus jordan
Re: Typhoon Refit-Rotten Deck Core
Are you going to put the hatch back or fill up the hole?
I am in the process of a related but smaller repair. A former owner put a 4 inch diameter vent in the foredeck, but the bedding broke down. I found about an inch of rot on the perimeter of the hole. I'm filling in the hole by mimicking the material schedule that CD used on the rest of the deck. It's pretty straight forward work; I have to paint the deck and cabin roof to hide the repair. I used a piece of cardboard taped to the cabin roof to support the first layer of repair materials.
As long as you feather the repair solidly into the old surrounding deck, the repair will be at least as strong as the original.
I think you should use some fiberglass cloth and mat to give the repair some strength to span the hole if you're going to close in the hole altogether.
If you're going to put the hatch back in, just taping the edge and injecting resin should be sufficient. You might want to use some microfibers for strength.
cjordan@together.net
I am in the process of a related but smaller repair. A former owner put a 4 inch diameter vent in the foredeck, but the bedding broke down. I found about an inch of rot on the perimeter of the hole. I'm filling in the hole by mimicking the material schedule that CD used on the rest of the deck. It's pretty straight forward work; I have to paint the deck and cabin roof to hide the repair. I used a piece of cardboard taped to the cabin roof to support the first layer of repair materials.
As long as you feather the repair solidly into the old surrounding deck, the repair will be at least as strong as the original.
I think you should use some fiberglass cloth and mat to give the repair some strength to span the hole if you're going to close in the hole altogether.
If you're going to put the hatch back in, just taping the edge and injecting resin should be sufficient. You might want to use some microfibers for strength.
cjordan@together.net
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Bill Artemowych
Re: Typhoon Refit-Rotten Deck Core
Check out the the website of the Rot Doctor! Based out of the Northwest they sell a good product for your specific repair called CPES (clear penetrating epoxy sealer). The sealer will penetrate
deep into the balsa arresting the fungus causing the rot. It has
better core saturation then other epoxy products. I don't have the
url handy but they are not hard to find. Good luck!
newcity@netway.com
deep into the balsa arresting the fungus causing the rot. It has
better core saturation then other epoxy products. I don't have the
url handy but they are not hard to find. Good luck!
newcity@netway.com
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Captain Mike
Re: Typhoon Refit-Rotten Deck Core
This damaged area was During a complete refit, while rebedding a forehtch that a previous owner installed, I was not surprised to find about a square foot of saturated balsa core. It turns out that the deck cleat was not bedded when reinstalled! I have scraped as much of the wet core out as possible and am drying it out. I intend to drill some 1/4 inch holes in the top layer of deck and squirt epoxy into the void when dry as in those fibreglass repair books. The foredeck is sound besides this area. Anyone know the secrets to this job? If I get it right I promise to share any info learned (after we go sailing at least once!)Rest of the boat is coming along, all deck fittings off for teak refinishing and rebedding, seacocks coming out to get new ball valves, toerails being scraped and finished, etc., etc..
Dory. Access could eazily be made to the damaged core by removing the inner fiberglass layer exposing the damage balsa. The penetration of water and pursueing rot was almost to the gunwale. With a grinding disk and good protective gear, the inner layer was cut into a rectangle approximately 18"X48"and removed. From cabin side, 1/2" marine plywood was position up against the outer layer of fiberglass decking. A new port hole was cut in the deck and plywood. Adhesive was generously applied to the plywood then it was clamped and wedged in place. Proper positioning of the plywood repair is important thus reducing the bonding gap for greater strengh and equally important to restablish proper chamber of the deck. I used West System Epoxy then but today I would use a polyether adhesive like 3M 5200. Once set I faired and trimed the portal added underlying structural members to stiffen it even more and trimmed it in teak to fair the deck for the port placement. The final repair was stronger than orginial and had the useable upgrade-a port. The plywood that made the repair was extened into the cabin area afforded by place of the damage. The plywood extended several inches into the cabin and later was trimmed into a small useabe shelf for storage. At this time, I made an additional upgrade of the vessel changing the mast step to the deck. The Ensign's mast was keel stepped, too large to handled by anyone short of Paul Bunyan. Therefore, requiring a elevated purchase or crane to lift the mast into the vessel. This feature determined where the boat could be slipped. I wanted by vessel to be more transportable so I changed the step to the deck. I first removed the fiberglass collar protruding above the deck. Fitted a solid wood backing underneath the cutout and wedged it in place with 3"x3" white oak timber that reinforced the mast. The Hole was poured and laid up with epoxy. The step was bolted through a halyard plate and underlying support. When using large quantities of resin,it is better to do this in layers or on a cool day to control the reaction. The exothermic reacion of a large quantity of epoxy on a hot spring day can be quit dramatic. The resin will begin crystalization upon the appearance of smoke. It is possible to burn oneself quite severely. This tale is proof of my survival. Repairing a Cape Dory may be accomplished the same way. If I had major deck damage of my Cape Dory, approaching cabin side would be my first choice. If you know more precisely where the damage extends or it is small then a topside approach maybe more practical. A second cut topside may contribute to a poor esthetic final result-topside where it is more noticeable. The inner liner onced removed whole could be used again as a ceiling to cover the repair on approached from the cabin side. Ash battens most commonly used by Cape Dory can beautifully restore any cabin top or cover any messy job. The rot in the balsa core is actually fungus so its total removal or as near as possible should be considered important. The yard that proposed drilling holes and injecting alcohol does not comprehend the decaying process that is happening. I made the repair to touche quit rapidly, simply, and way under $2,200. Remember the repair most also restore the structural integrity of the vessel. Filling holes with epoxy does not completely address the problem of retored strengh. Many happy repairs and keep your stick on the ice! Capt. Mike
mattngly@centric.net
Touche, a Pearson Ensign,was purchased during winter in Minneosota. An Ensign is a Carl Alberg design and built similiar to Cape Dory by using a balsa core and fiberglass. Her rotten deck was not detected until the spring when the heat thrawed the frozen ice making them spongy. A leaky deck fitting positioned amidships at the height of the chamber was the culprit. I approached the repair cabin side and inserted a small port to include the hole in the deck from the fitting removal and center of greatest damage. Pearson did not include an smooth inner liner for Ensigns typical of CapePaul D. wrote: This webpage has and no doubt will continue to be a valuable source of information and support.
Paul Danicic
Typhoon #1178
HORNET
Dory. Access could eazily be made to the damaged core by removing the inner fiberglass layer exposing the damage balsa. The penetration of water and pursueing rot was almost to the gunwale. With a grinding disk and good protective gear, the inner layer was cut into a rectangle approximately 18"X48"and removed. From cabin side, 1/2" marine plywood was position up against the outer layer of fiberglass decking. A new port hole was cut in the deck and plywood. Adhesive was generously applied to the plywood then it was clamped and wedged in place. Proper positioning of the plywood repair is important thus reducing the bonding gap for greater strengh and equally important to restablish proper chamber of the deck. I used West System Epoxy then but today I would use a polyether adhesive like 3M 5200. Once set I faired and trimed the portal added underlying structural members to stiffen it even more and trimmed it in teak to fair the deck for the port placement. The final repair was stronger than orginial and had the useable upgrade-a port. The plywood that made the repair was extened into the cabin area afforded by place of the damage. The plywood extended several inches into the cabin and later was trimmed into a small useabe shelf for storage. At this time, I made an additional upgrade of the vessel changing the mast step to the deck. The Ensign's mast was keel stepped, too large to handled by anyone short of Paul Bunyan. Therefore, requiring a elevated purchase or crane to lift the mast into the vessel. This feature determined where the boat could be slipped. I wanted by vessel to be more transportable so I changed the step to the deck. I first removed the fiberglass collar protruding above the deck. Fitted a solid wood backing underneath the cutout and wedged it in place with 3"x3" white oak timber that reinforced the mast. The Hole was poured and laid up with epoxy. The step was bolted through a halyard plate and underlying support. When using large quantities of resin,it is better to do this in layers or on a cool day to control the reaction. The exothermic reacion of a large quantity of epoxy on a hot spring day can be quit dramatic. The resin will begin crystalization upon the appearance of smoke. It is possible to burn oneself quite severely. This tale is proof of my survival. Repairing a Cape Dory may be accomplished the same way. If I had major deck damage of my Cape Dory, approaching cabin side would be my first choice. If you know more precisely where the damage extends or it is small then a topside approach maybe more practical. A second cut topside may contribute to a poor esthetic final result-topside where it is more noticeable. The inner liner onced removed whole could be used again as a ceiling to cover the repair on approached from the cabin side. Ash battens most commonly used by Cape Dory can beautifully restore any cabin top or cover any messy job. The rot in the balsa core is actually fungus so its total removal or as near as possible should be considered important. The yard that proposed drilling holes and injecting alcohol does not comprehend the decaying process that is happening. I made the repair to touche quit rapidly, simply, and way under $2,200. Remember the repair most also restore the structural integrity of the vessel. Filling holes with epoxy does not completely address the problem of retored strengh. Many happy repairs and keep your stick on the ice! Capt. Mike
mattngly@centric.net
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Bill Renneker
Re: Typhoon Refit-Rotten Deck Core
Paul,
Pick up a copy of Don Casey's book, "Sailboat Hull & Deck Repair." He has an excellent explanation & drawings in this book detailing the entire procedure the way it ought to be done (remove & replace the core).
I'm planning the same procedure on my boat this spring, on a cockpit seat (damaged resulted from a poorly bedded traveler). Good luck!
Bill
bill@itctel.com
Pick up a copy of Don Casey's book, "Sailboat Hull & Deck Repair." He has an excellent explanation & drawings in this book detailing the entire procedure the way it ought to be done (remove & replace the core).
I'm planning the same procedure on my boat this spring, on a cockpit seat (damaged resulted from a poorly bedded traveler). Good luck!
Bill
bill@itctel.com