Observations of a near knockdown, CD 28

[Tom Young]

The end of a beautiful day sailing under spinnaker alone into Penobscot Bay. We had been running all day under a perfect but building southwesterly wind pushing us home to Camden Harbor.
We spent a good deal of the day on the foredeck, our trusty Navico which has steered us twice to the Bahamas steered us safely along the port side reefs which where being used by many seals basking in the sun with that dory shaped arched back that is so facinating to watch. Little could be heard but seals, a gentle hissing of the bow wave and an occasional but frequent lobster bouy bouncing along the hull(no danger of hooking a CD while sailing, a big plus here)
Our 6 and 7 year old son and daughter takes this for granted. They both started summers as infants on our CD. The boat (75, 28') has been a summer home and adventure for 13 years. Their enjoyment has enhanced my passion to be on the water.
Incidentaly, what I think is so great about CD's after all this time is: They start with a good design, use quality parts(including CD parts which they built:hull, decks, fittings), and assembled them with quality workmanship. Sounds simple but not that many boats are done that way.
As we approached Curtis Island light at the head of the harbor, I began to ease the pole forward pulling the big chute aft on a port tack. Steering by hand I was enjoying our building broad reach, slowly I brought the wind onto our beam, somewhat unaware how much the wind had been building all day. As we broad reached into the lee of Curtis Island, I let the pole nearly touch the head stay, pulled the sheet car back to stretch the spinnaker out.
In the lee, we were nearly hull speed, too much fun to stop, plenty of room, I opted to sail toward our mooring.
As our beam reach carried us through the lee of the island to the area past the island, which, as you probabley guessed was open to the full wind(just when you think you know a bit) this is what I remember:
A steady, but rapid heeling of Reliant I have never felt. She was going much farther than she ever had before. There was not that gradual steady counter force she always displays. As I began to stand on the side of the starboard locker, I was aware of objects flying out of the dodger overboard. She wasn't finished yet. Holding the tiller, standing on the locker, I had to hold onto the toe rail to keep from going out of the cockpit. At this point, for the first time, my attempts to steer her downwind, failed, she couldn't respond to a rudder out of the water.
At this point, I was frozen(Dodge Morgan I ain't)Heres what was also going on: My wife and daughter screaming. They were on the port deck before this, now they were on the port cabin side. Our little boy was on starboard, she screams he's going overboard, I can only look along the starboard deck which is underwater and wait for him to float by(they always have their lifeprservers on, always.)
At this point the heel spills the wind from the chute, she's coming back, she's coming back with the same power and determination, theres no doubt now. She stands back up and a luffing spinnaker, rattles us out of our shock, then begins to swell with renewed power. My son is still onboard,(he showed my later how he reached through the open port in the vee berth and held onto the ceiling and stood on the toe rail) everyones ok. I snap out of it and throw the sheet off the selftailer.
They get over it instantly(they are the best crew I know)but I still think about it.
This is not one of those practical sailer, mast slapping, drogues hanging, deck joints bursting, force 58, this is in the harbor, probably 20 kts of wind. In that situation, you can't do much. With a cockpit nearly vertical, your instinct is to hold on.
I was lulled into thinking the wind was less by going straight downwind. This is our second spinnaker, we use them alot but they are a powerful sail, I should have had my sheet ready to go as I went on the reach.
The boat does what the design intends(but it's nothing I want to do again soon), nothing broke(strong parts again)no one got hurt(you can't design that in)





fish@mint.net

[Tom]

The end of a beautiful day sailing under spinnaker alone into Penobscot Bay. We had been running all day under a perfect but building southwesterly wind pushing us home to Camden Harbor.
We spent a good deal of the day on the foredeck, our trusty Navico which has steered us twice to the Bahamas steered us safely along the port side reefs which where being used by many seals basking in the sun with that dory shaped arched back that is so facinating to watch. Little could be heard but seals, a gentle hissing of the bow wave and an occasional but frequent lobster bouy bouncing along the hull(no danger of hooking a CD while sailing, a big plus here)
Our 6 and 7 year old son and daughter takes this for granted. They both started summers as infants on our CD. The boat (75, 28') has been a summer home and adventure for 13 years. Their enjoyment has enhanced my passion to be on the water.
Incidentaly, what I think is so great about CD's after all this time is: They start with a good design, use quality parts(including CD parts which they built:hull, decks, fittings), and assembled them with quality workmanship. Sounds simple but not that many boats are done that way.
As we approached Curtis Island light at the head of the harbor, I began to ease the pole forward pulling the big chute aft on a port tack. Steering by hand I was enjoying our building broad reach, slowly I brought the wind onto our beam, somewhat unaware how much the wind had been building all day. As we broad reached into the lee of Curtis Island, I let the pole nearly touch the head stay, pulled the sheet car back to stretch the spinnaker out.
In the lee, we were nearly hull speed, too much fun to stop, plenty of room, I opted to sail toward our mooring.
As our beam reach carried us through the lee of the island to the area past the island, which, as you probabley guessed was open to the full wind(just when you think you know a bit) this is what I remember:
A steady, but rapid heeling of Reliant I have never felt. She was going much farther than she ever had before. There was not that gradual steady counter force she always displays. As I began to stand on the side of the starboard locker, I was aware of objects flying out of the dodger overboard. She wasn't finished yet. Holding the tiller, standing on the locker, I had to hold onto the toe rail to keep from going out of the cockpit. At this point, for the first time, my attempts to steer her downwind, failed, she couldn't respond to a rudder out of the water.
At this point, I was frozen(Dodge Morgan I ain't)Heres what was also going on: My wife and daughter screaming. They were on the port deck before this, now they were on the port cabin side. Our little boy was on starboard, she screams he's going overboard, I can only look along the starboard deck which is underwater and wait for him to float by(they always have their lifeprservers on, always.)
At this point the heel spills the wind from the chute, she's coming back, she's coming back with the same power and determination, theres no doubt now. She stands back up and a luffing spinnaker, rattles us out of our shock, then begins to swell with renewed power. My son is still onboard,(he showed my later how he reached through the open port in the vee berth and held onto the ceiling and stood on the toe rail) everyones ok. I snap out of it and throw the sheet off the selftailer.
They get over it instantly(they are the best crew I know)but I still think about it.
This is not one of those practical sailer, mast slapping, drogues hanging, deck joints bursting, force 58, this is in the harbor, probably 20 kts of wind. In that situation, you can't do much. With a cockpit nearly vertical, your instinct is to hold on.
I was lulled into thinking the wind was less by going straight downwind. This is our second spinnaker, we use them alot but they are a powerful sail, I should have had my sheet ready to go as I went on the reach.
The boat does what the design intends(but it's nothing I want to do again soon), nothing broke(strong parts again)no one got hurt(you can't design that in)

You've described a broach not a knockdown. A broach is caused by carrying too much sail downwind, i.e., pilot error. A knockdown has to do with a gust of wind, i.e., out of your control. In either case you need to be ready to ease sheets. Carrying a lightwind sail in a 20 knot breeze is living on the edge and the crew needs to be ready. I don't mean to pontificate, it's exhilarating with a crack racing crew, but not usually something you do with the family, but then I'm a coward.



TacCambria@thegrid.net

[Paul]

Sounds pretty scary, but all's well that end's well. I had a partial knockdown last summer...within 100 yards of my mooring...sails sheeted in to tightly and an inexperienced person at the tiller (I also have an older model CD 28). After it was over, I had a new appreciation for the design of the boat but I also realized a couple of things: I have to make sure that whoever is at the tiller really understands what to do when the wind suddenly builds. I also no longer sail with the ports upen. Luckily they were closed that day but had they been opened, water would have poured in. Live and learn.

[Tom Young]

It is true I had way too much sail up for the conditions, something I never do, however I was unaware as I rounded up into the lee of an island that the wind had gradually increased. I have been tricked before running downwind. It's only when I begin to round up and bring the wind onto the beam that I become aware. Of course if you are paying attention to other indicators, I would have stayed in the lee and dropped the sail.
What you describe as a broach is partly true. A broach is a condition caused mostly by a following sea running downwind. I have broached during high following seas with storm jib, bare poles, even trying to motor, although alarming, we have never suffered too much of a knockdown in the process. Motor boats can and do broach. You are quickly rounded up by the seas, the broach takes place when you are beam to the seas, too much sail further complicates things.
We on the other hand had no seas and were beam reaching(perpendicular to the wind) and suffered a wind only partial knock down, no round up, little course change. I hope never to repeat this mistake.



fish@mint.net

[Tom]

It is true I had way too much sail up for the conditions, something I never do, however I was unaware as I rounded up into the lee of an island that the wind had gradually increased. I have been tricked before running downwind. It's only when I begin to round up and bring the wind onto the beam that I become aware. Of course if you are paying attention to other indicators, I would have stayed in the lee and dropped the sail.
What you describe as a broach is partly true. A broach is a condition caused mostly by a following sea running downwind. I have broached during high following seas with storm jib, bare poles, even trying to motor, although alarming, we have never suffered too much of a knockdown in the process. Motor boats can and do broach. You are quickly rounded up by the seas, the broach takes place when you are beam to the seas, too much sail further complicates things.
We on the other hand had no seas and were beam reaching(perpendicular to the wind) and suffered a wind only partial knock down, no round up, little course change. I hope never to repeat this mistake.

Tom, I think you're correct. When you are beam reaching and get a puff I guess you'd call that a knock down rather than a broach. Also the fact that you didn't round up and lack of seas. I guess I was reading between the lines. I always think that we have a lot of novice sailors reading this board so we want to give them a procedure for how to deal with a situation like this if they ever find themselves in the same spot. My thought was to encourage them to shorten sail early especially sailing downwind when it starts to blow. Then if you get caught with the sails still up, to have someone standing by the sheets and ready to let fly just in case. I think that is what you were saying also.

It's hard to not sound like a know it all when you respond to postings. I'm certainly not holier than anybody and don't pretend to be an authority. Postings are more fun and more informative when there is some give and take and I hope that's the way it comes across. Your follow up posting was dead on the mark and valuable for novices to know that you can broach carrying no sail at all as well as too much. I'm sure you'd agree though, that we all should be careful about carrying too much sail especially downwind and especially beginners. I thought your original posting made that point very well. I hope I didn't sound like I was picking nits about terminology.



TacCambria @the grid.net

[Catherine Monaghan]

Hi everybody. Here's a web article that may help clear up any questions or concerns regarding broaching, rolling, how to and when to use a spinnaker:

<a href="http://members.aol.com/marlanc/spin2.html">Flying A Spinnaker with the Washington Yacht Club</a>

catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Raritan Bay

The end of a beautiful day sailing under spinnaker alone into Penobscot Bay. We had been running all day under a perfect but building southwesterly wind pushing us home to Camden Harbor.
We spent a good deal of the day on the foredeck, our trusty Navico which has steered us twice to the Bahamas steered us safely along the port side reefs which where being used by many seals basking in the sun with that dory shaped arched back that is so facinating to watch. Little could be heard but seals, a gentle hissing of the bow wave and an occasional but frequent lobster bouy bouncing along the hull(no danger of hooking a CD while sailing, a big plus here)
Our 6 and 7 year old son and daughter takes this for granted. They both started summers as infants on our CD. The boat (75, 28') has been a summer home and adventure for 13 years. Their enjoyment has enhanced my passion to be on the water.
Incidentaly, what I think is so great about CD's after all this time is: They start with a good design, use quality parts(including CD parts which they built:hull, decks, fittings), and assembled them with quality workmanship. Sounds simple but not that many boats are done that way.
As we approached Curtis Island light at the head of the harbor, I began to ease the pole forward pulling the big chute aft on a port tack. Steering by hand I was enjoying our building broad reach, slowly I brought the wind onto our beam, somewhat unaware how much the wind had been building all day. As we broad reached into the lee of Curtis Island, I let the pole nearly touch the head stay, pulled the sheet car back to stretch the spinnaker out.
In the lee, we were nearly hull speed, too much fun to stop, plenty of room, I opted to sail toward our mooring.
As our beam reach carried us through the lee of the island to the area past the island, which, as you probabley guessed was open to the full wind(just when you think you know a bit) this is what I remember:
A steady, but rapid heeling of Reliant I have never felt. She was going much farther than she ever had before. There was not that gradual steady counter force she always displays. As I began to stand on the side of the starboard locker, I was aware of objects flying out of the dodger overboard. She wasn't finished yet. Holding the tiller, standing on the locker, I had to hold onto the toe rail to keep from going out of the cockpit. At this point, for the first time, my attempts to steer her downwind, failed, she couldn't respond to a rudder out of the water.
At this point, I was frozen(Dodge Morgan I ain't)Heres what was also going on: My wife and daughter screaming. They were on the port deck before this, now they were on the port cabin side. Our little boy was on starboard, she screams he's going overboard, I can only look along the starboard deck which is underwater and wait for him to float by(they always have their lifeprservers on, always.)
At this point the heel spills the wind from the chute, she's coming back, she's coming back with the same power and determination, theres no doubt now. She stands back up and a luffing spinnaker, rattles us out of our shock, then begins to swell with renewed power. My son is still onboard,(he showed my later how he reached through the open port in the vee berth and held onto the ceiling and stood on the toe rail) everyones ok. I snap out of it and throw the sheet off the selftailer.
They get over it instantly(they are the best crew I know)but I still think about it.
This is not one of those practical sailer, mast slapping, drogues hanging, deck joints bursting, force 58, this is in the harbor, probably 20 kts of wind. In that situation, you can't do much. With a cockpit nearly vertical, your instinct is to hold on.
I was lulled into thinking the wind was less by going straight downwind. This is our second spinnaker, we use them alot but they are a powerful sail, I should have had my sheet ready to go as I went on the reach.
The boat does what the design intends(but it's nothing I want to do again soon), nothing broke(strong parts again)no one got hurt(you can't design that in)

catherine_monaghan@merck.com