A basic sail handling question...

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Another skipper and I were discussing sail handling over a mug of Grog the other night, and the question arose "What is the proper sequence of raising sail on a cutter?" Do you raise the main first, as it is the MAINsail? Or, do you raise the stays'l first, followed by the main and then the jib, or do you raise the #1 jib first since it is the Number One?

Obviously, Winter has been LONG, and both of us have too much time on our hands. Either that, or we've got too much Grog under our belts. Hanalei goes back in on April 2nd. so there probably won't be any more questions like this after that!

Any comments appreciated, or can you recommend a good book?

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Me, too]

Most of us use the engine to keep the boat into the wind while raising all sails. Then it doesn't really matter which one you raise first.

[Carl Jones]

Another skipper and I were discussing sail handling over a mug of Grog the other night, and the question arose "What is the proper sequence of raising sail on a cutter?" Do you raise the main first, as it is the MAINsail? Or, do you raise the stays'l first, followed by the main and then the jib, or do you raise the #1 jib first since it is the Number One?

Obviously, Winter has been LONG, and both of us have too much time on our hands. Either that, or we've got too much Grog under our belts. Hanalei goes back in on April 2nd. so there probably won't be any more questions like this after that!

Any comments appreciated, or can you recommend a good book?

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

I don't know if it is according to Hoyle, but I raise the main, sheet it in, then the staysail, then unfurl the Yankee from the cockpit. It works for me.
Carl Jones
CD30 Spanish Eyes





GreatCells@aol.com

[Chris]

Dave - I often sail off our mooring using just the staysail. It allows me depart our congested anchorage with minimal power and speed. Once I reach clear water I usually raise the main and then unfurl the headsail. I find this order works very well when leaving a dock or mooring under sail power.

Another skipper and I were discussing sail handling over a mug of Grog the other night, and the question arose "What is the proper sequence of raising sail on a cutter?" Do you raise the main first, as it is the MAINsail? Or, do you raise the stays'l first, followed by the main and then the jib, or do you raise the #1 jib first since it is the Number One?

Obviously, Winter has been LONG, and both of us have too much time on our hands. Either that, or we've got too much Grog under our belts. Hanalei goes back in on April 2nd. so there probably won't be any more questions like this after that!

Any comments appreciated, or can you recommend a good book?

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Tom]

Another skipper and I were discussing sail handling over a mug of Grog the other night, and the question arose "What is the proper sequence of raising sail on a cutter?" Do you raise the main first, as it is the MAINsail? Or, do you raise the stays'l first, followed by the main and then the jib, or do you raise the #1 jib first since it is the Number One?

Obviously, Winter has been LONG, and both of us have too much time on our hands. Either that, or we've got too much Grog under our belts. Hanalei goes back in on April 2nd. so there probably won't be any more questions like this after that!

Any comments appreciated, or can you recommend a good book?

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

Dave: There is only one proper sequence to raising or lowering sails. The main always goes up first because this keeps the bow into the wind. Then you proceed forward staysail and then jib. The idea is that you are trying to keep the center of effort abaft the mast so that your boat will round up in a puff as she was designed to do. If you raise headsails first and get a sudden puff or strong wind it will turn your bow downwind regardless of the rudder or engine. Suddenly you are travelling downwind going like a bat out of hell and trying to round up now to stop way on your boat can cause you to broach. You may accidentally gybe and have the staysail boom sweep you off the deck. You want to be under control at all times especially when you are handling sails and have an inexperienced person or the autopilot steering. Of course in a light wind or no wind situation you can get away with raising headsails first, but it's a bad habit to form and the general rule is that you start with the most aft sail and work your way forward. When dowsing sails it is just the reverse. You dowse the most forward sail first, the staysail next, and the main last. Any how to sail book will explain this in more detail, but Eric Hiscock's "Cruising Under Sail" and his others are good "how to" books, also Royce's "Sailing Illustrated" is commonly available. IMHO it is lubberly to see anyone hoist a headsail first and if you try it when it's really blowing no one will have to explain it again. There's an old saying that goes: "Information earned is more valuable than information learned -- if the cost isn't too dear!"



TacCambria@thegrid.net

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Tom,

Thank you for the very logical explanation. It does make sense to raise the main first because the center of effort is aft the mast and she will head up alone. Sounds a lot safer than the other methods. As it turns out, I usually do raise the main first, but I had just wondered if that was the correct procedure to follow and why it was so. Thanks again for your help.

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Neil Gordon]

>>Most of us use the engine to keep the boat into the wind while raising all sails.<<

It's easy, but it takes more sea room.

I like to get sails up as soon as I clear the marina, which means not much room to travel while raising the main (depending on wind direction). Also, when single handed, I'd just as soon not have the autopilot motor the boat out of sight should I fall overboard. My practice is to motor out of the marina, head into the wind, kill the motor (or at least put it in neutral) and get the main going up while the boat's momentum keeps it into the wind. By the time momentum is gone, the main is up sufficiently to keep the head more or less to the wind. Back to the cockpit, trim the main sheet and off I go.

Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com

[Lyn Heiges]

Dear Me, too,

I truly believe in getting out of the slip or away from the mooring under power, however, as soon as I have clearance enough, I point the boat into the wind, place the engine in neutral, center the tiller and go raise the mainsail. I leave the engine operating in case I need to re-point the boat should the wind shift or other necessity require swift attention. Once the main is raised, I will go hook-up the autopilot and again point the boat into the wind and let it hold that course again with the engine in neutral while I raise the jib. When all is set I shut off the engine and proceed under sail power. This is the procedure whether single-handing or not.

When I am single-handing I wear an Likaris harness and I have the stern mounted ladder afixed with velcro so, should I get tossed overboard I will be dragged by the boat, not have to worry about the prop chewing me up and I can reboard. One thing not to forget is that if you are at the bow or generally forward of the mast and go over, you have the shrouds to deal with which requires your tether to be long enough to still get back to the stern should you go over at that point.

Best Regards,
Lyn Heiges
CD28 MOON CHILD
CD27 GUILLEMOT

Most of us use the engine to keep the boat into the wind while raising all sails. Then it doesn't really matter which one you raise first.

lheiges@compuserve.com

[Olli Wendelin]

I second Tom's answer and clear explanation. The conventional wisdom is to raise the aft sail first and then work your way forward. Lower the formost jib first, then work your way aft. BLUE MOON is a ketch rigged CD 30, we normally follow this advice. I have also had the good fortune to sail on the three masted schooner PRIDE OF CHARLESTON and the four masted schooner WINDY. In both instances the Captain followed this rule.

Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC



wendelin@spawar.navy.mil

[Lyn Heiges]

Dear Olli,

I appreciated your comments, but I a bit confused. Are you saying that on your ketch (or on a yawl or schooner) you would raise the aft-most sail first?

I would think one would place the physical load the on center-most mast or the one just forward of center of the vessel first. Then once the load was established to this point on the vessel the loads would be balanced working aft on the next high strain mast then forward, etc. until all loads were completed.

In the case of a ketch or yawl I would think you would load the mainsail then the mizzensail then the staysail (if cutter-rigged) then the jib or Genoa.

Am interested in what the Navy (from you e-mail address) has taught you from their 200-plus years of experience!!

Thanks, in advance!

Lyn Heiges
CD28 Sloop MOON CHILD
CD27 Sloop GUILLEMOT

I second Tom's answer and clear explanation. The conventional wisdom is to raise the aft sail first and then work your way forward. Lower the formost jib first, then work your way aft. BLUE MOON is a ketch rigged CD 30, we normally follow this advice. I have also had the good fortune to sail on the three masted schooner PRIDE OF CHARLESTON and the four masted schooner WINDY. In both instances the Captain followed this rule.

Olli Wendelin
BLUE MOON
Charleston, SC

lheiges@compuserve.com

[Captain Mike]

Then you are not sailing! I believe the question concerns the act of under control of the vessel via sail power. As we all have experienced motorboaters do seamanship slightly different. The main is always raised first so the bow will lay into the wind and stay hoved to. Their is some situations were the jib or forward sails may be raised first as mentioned by Me,too. The main is not always the last sail to be lowered, for example, dockage onto a lee shore. A safe distance windward of the dock the main is lowered. The vessel is steered downwind under control of the jib which is lowered in time to reduce speed so the vessel can be brought alongside carefully.
, and explained by : Most of us use the engine to keep the boat into the wind while raising all sails. Then it doesn't really matter which one you raise first.



mattngly@concentric.net

[sam]

As Tom points out this is improper and tacky but I do the same and it works great. If you set the main first when trying to sail off the hook, it will just bring you head to wind. Of course I have the battenless main I mentioned in another comment so I can raise the main with out having to be exactly head to wind. In light winds I can set it well off the wind.

I also anchor going dead down wind at 2 knots let out the anchor and a moderate amount of scope. snub it (with my feet well out of the way) and bang. when it sets you know it. The Power Squadron would drum me out of the corps if they knew I did that but it has worked for me for years and if it works whats wrong with doing it??

[sam]

When I am single-handing I wear an Likaris harness and I have the stern mounted ladder afixed with velcro so, should I get tossed overboard I will be dragged by the boat, not have to worry about the prop chewing me up and I can reboard. One thing not to forget is that if you are at the bow or generally forward of the mast and go over, you have the shrouds to deal with which requires your tether to be long enough to still get back to the stern should you go over at that point.

Lyn, it sounds like you are a cautious sailor but I wonder about the wisdom of a 'long' tether. if you are 10 feet back of a boat going say 5 knots there will be a lot of water pressure and a big wave in your face. Getting back to the boat could be a challenge. It is for this reason, I use a short tether when I wear one. It will hopefully keep me from going over at all. On the other hand it is a pain because you cannot easily move around the boat. I tie a line tight on the center line and attach to it. Must unhook and reconnect going forward of the mast.

wonder what others do??

[john churchill]

When I am single-handing I wear an Likaris harness and I have the stern mounted ladder afixed with velcro so, should I get tossed overboard I will be dragged by the boat, not have to worry about the prop chewing me up and I can reboard. One thing not to forget is that if you are at the bow or generally forward of the mast and go over, you have the shrouds to deal with which requires your tether to be long enough to still get back to the stern should you go over at that point.

Lyn, it sounds like you are a cautious sailor but I wonder about the wisdom of a 'long' tether. if you are 10 feet back of a boat going say 5 knots there will be a lot of water pressure and a big wave in your face. Getting back to the boat could be a challenge. It is for this reason, I use a short tether when I wear one. It will hopefully keep me from going over at all. On the other hand it is a pain because you cannot easily move around the boat. I tie a line tight on the center line and attach to it. Must unhook and reconnect going forward of the mast.

wonder what others do??

my understanding of the harness is that it keeps you on the boat. if you go over, even with crew aboard you are still in BIG trouble. there have been several people dead even though still attached. i heard of at least one person getting dragged so forcefully that he felt his chances better by cutting himself loose and was lost. i use standard length tether, jacklines on the side decks, clipped on to the windward side. no need to disconnect when going fwd. separate padeye in cockpit for helmsman.

[Neil Gordon]

>>wonder what others do??<<

I always clip to the windward jackline. A fall will take me across the boat and the tether will keep me on deck.

Singlehandled, I keep the life jacket on and don't leave the cockpit unless the boat is trimmed to head into the wind and stop of its own accord. More comfortable that way than using the jacklines, but I'm in sheltered water with a fair amount of traffic. If I go over, I'm pretty sure to get picked up.


Regards, Neil
s/v LIQUIDITY
Cape Dory 28 #167



neil@nrgordon.com