Cape Dory 33 Vs. Allied Seawind MKII

[Mike Thorpe]

Lyn,
How do I question a man with the secret to a successful 33 year relationship. Thats worth more than any boat. Carol (forgive my presumptivness)must be a very forgiving person :>)

But, the question is not if Cape Dorys are great boats; they are, but are they worth a 50% premium? ($60K vs $40K asking prices).

Your friend with the Allied...is it a Seawind MKII? If so, what do they think of it?

Mike,

I think what you responded to with Bruce Bett has a lot to say about the interest and the owners of the two brands of yachts. Also what you read from Dave Stump IS TRUE!! (Married to Carol 33-years.)

I have a CD27 (#186) which I have had for 14+ years and I could ask for nothing more than additional power and space. I recently purchased (September 1998)a CD28 which had considerable more power with the replacement Yanmar 2GM20F, but little additional space as water tanks take a lot more otherwise usable space, BUT I AM NOT complaining. I have a friend with the Allied and it is a fine boat and he recently had it Imron-ed. When I bought MOON CHILD, the CD28, I did it because it was a Cape Dory! I know how she is built and not that others are not as well built, I don't think there are any BETTER DESIGNED AND BUILT! You can get a lot of support right here on this website with knowledgeable, sincere people and support is genuine which is worth a lot of money. I am frugal and don't like to waste money, however, I have never had any serious expense or had to do something because Cape Dory "did't do it right"!! The house and cars cost much more to maintain and a lot of other boats are right in there with those expenditures. Cape Dorys are GREAT, CLASSIC boats!

I single hand a lot and have for 20+ years and the CDs are generally easy to do it with. They are also rugged and forgiving, so when you do something stupid, as we all do occassionaly, she probably isn't going to sustain any real or permanent damage unless you pull off the bowsprit, stantions, or mast. You still can get all the goodies from the original manufacturers, too! I do not live aboard yet as Carol hasn't thrown me out, although we both enjoy retreating to the "other home" overnight in the back yard or when cruising.

As you can see, I am a VERY ARDENT Cape Dory FAN and I think you will get the money out of your investment with the CD. You may have to sell it for less than what you paid for it, but the upkeep and other costs will net you less expense, so in the long run you have more money overall returned.

Sincerely,

Lyn Heiges
CD28 MOON CHILD
CD27 GUILLEMOT

At the risk of being keel hauled let me ask this question. Is a CD33 worth the $20K premium when compared to an Allied Seawind MKII?

Perhaps a little background information is in order. I am a 53 year old retired singlehander who lives on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. I have a CD27 (Lady Jane) that I love. However, in another year I plan to make the trip down the ICW and spend winters where it is warm.

Lady Jane, forgive me dear, is not enough boat for this dream. Consequently, I am starting to look around for used boats that can satisfy my dream. (New is out of the question unless I win MEGABUCKS. If I do don't get between me and Shannon Yachts. Sorry Robinhood.)

I need a go any where boat 32-36'OAL traditional in design, modified full keel that I can fall in love with. Love is an absolute necessity.

So far there is Cape Dory and Allied. The CD33 & Allied Seawind II are similiar in water line length, beam, draft & displacement.

Cape Dory 33 are about $60K & Allied Seawind MKII are about $40K.

As much as I love my CD I have to ask this question...What does this $20K premium buy me?

Looking forward to the discussion.

Mike
A value investor

mthorpe@capecod.net

[Mike Thorpe]

Skip,

Thank you for the very informative post. Yours is the 1st with tangible comparitive information.

I knew that the Mistress (39'), Princess (36')and Seabreeze (35')center boarder had a reputation for being initially tender but I'm not sure if this true for the Seawind MKII(32'). I looking for information on the MKII. Have you had the opportunity to sail on one of these? They were manufactured with both ketch and cutter rigs and given my druthers I would take the cutter.

According to practical sailor the early Allied boats left a lot to be desired when it came to interior finish but supposedly this improved dramatically in the the later years 79-81.

Finally, your racing strategy and mine are the same, wise decision on the Catalina and I assume you accepted the November Long Island to Bermuda crew position late one night in the yacht club bar:>)

Regards
Mike

Mike

I have sailed the Allied Mistress 39 (a ketch), but not the 36 and own a CD33. My experience on the 39 was as crew on a rough November passage from Long Island to Bermuda in which we experienced winds > 40 kn and seas in the 20+ range. A major advantage of this boat is the multiple sail combinations that are possible with a ketch. After the double reefed main and partially furled jib, we passed through jib and jigger to finally just the staysail. With appropriate sails the boat was quite safe, but not comfortable. She, and the 36 have a lot of windage and a relatively shallow draft and hence she made quite a bit of leeway as well as being tender. Under these conditions leeway was preferable to knockdown.

Allied's in general have a reputaion for being quite tender. A few years ago I read something similar about the Allied Princess 36.

At the time of the Bermuda passage I was between boats but negotiating the purchase of a Catalina 34. Not having been to sea for several years (desk bound former oceanographer) I realized how much I missed bluewater and withdrew the Catalina offer. I evaluated an Allied 36 quite seriously but within a month I found and purchased the CD33. I have never regretted purchasing this boat.

I've sailed the CD 33 under similar winds of shorter duration and fetch and about half the wave height. Again, with the appropriate sail combination she is extremely safe, but also extremely comfortable. The CD330 would give you a staysail which would centralize the center of effort of the foretriangle and provide a better balanced reefed sail plan, but i haven't missed this on the 33. Also, relative to leeway, for coastal sailing you may want to minimize this potential in your choice between boats.

In light wind the 33 does quite well for its high D/L (but i pick my challenges with discretion and don't declare them until they have been won), but she is sure not a J. I'm not familiar with the SA/D or D/L for the Allied 36.

Finally, the craftsmanship on the Cape Dory line, as I'm sure you've noticed inyour boat, is quite high relative to the Allieds.

Best of luck

Skip

mthorpe@cpecod.net

[Lyn Heiges]

Mike,

I will have to check with him! His is a 35-footer and older than my '80 CD27.

Carol IS VERY FORGIVING and has accepted (???) the competition -- although when I read her your remarks she said "I don't like being compared to a boat, I guess it's OK!" I did reminder of Dave's comment about women improving with age, but I got a "Curly" (of the Three Stooges) "Heh, Heh, Heh!"

Will try to get the info ASAP for you!! They do a lot of Yacht Club to Yacht Club cruising which has many ammenities with nice showers, good food, etc., but they also do the "hang-off the hook" crusing too.

Warm Regards (65.0 degrees F @ 1000, 02/27/99, St. Pete Beach, FL)

Lyn

Lyn,
How do I question a man with the secret to a successful 33 year relationship. Thats worth more than any boat. Carol (forgive my presumptivness)must be a very forgiving person :>)

But, the question is not if Cape Dorys are great boats; they are, but are they worth a 50% premium? ($60K vs $40K asking prices).

Your friend with the Allied...is it a Seawind MKII? If so, what do they think of it?

Mike,

I think what you responded to with Bruce Bett has a lot to say about the interest and the owners of the two brands of yachts. Also what you read from Dave Stump IS TRUE!! (Married to Carol 33-years.)

I have a CD27 (#186) which I have had for 14+ years and I could ask for nothing more than additional power and space. I recently purchased (September 1998)a CD28 which had considerable more power with the replacement Yanmar 2GM20F, but little additional space as water tanks take a lot more otherwise usable space, BUT I AM NOT complaining. I have a friend with the Allied and it is a fine boat and he recently had it Imron-ed. When I bought MOON CHILD, the CD28, I did it because it was a Cape Dory! I know how she is built and not that others are not as well built, I don't think there are any BETTER DESIGNED AND BUILT! You can get a lot of support right here on this website with knowledgeable, sincere people and support is genuine which is worth a lot of money. I am frugal and don't like to waste money, however, I have never had any serious expense or had to do something because Cape Dory "did't do it right"!! The house and cars cost much more to maintain and a lot of other boats are right in there with those expenditures. Cape Dorys are GREAT, CLASSIC boats!

I single hand a lot and have for 20+ years and the CDs are generally easy to do it with. They are also rugged and forgiving, so when you do something stupid, as we all do occassionaly, she probably isn't going to sustain any real or permanent damage unless you pull off the bowsprit, stantions, or mast. You still can get all the goodies from the original manufacturers, too! I do not live aboard yet as Carol hasn't thrown me out, although we both enjoy retreating to the "other home" overnight in the back yard or when cruising.

As you can see, I am a VERY ARDENT Cape Dory FAN and I think you will get the money out of your investment with the CD. You may have to sell it for less than what you paid for it, but the upkeep and other costs will net you less expense, so in the long run you have more money overall returned.

Sincerely,

Lyn Heiges
CD28 MOON CHILD
CD27 GUILLEMOT

At the risk of being keel hauled let me ask this question. Is a CD33 worth the $20K premium when compared to an Allied Seawind MKII?

Perhaps a little background information is in order. I am a 53 year old retired singlehander who lives on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. I have a CD27 (Lady Jane) that I love. However, in another year I plan to make the trip down the ICW and spend winters where it is warm.

Lady Jane, forgive me dear, is not enough boat for this dream. Consequently, I am starting to look around for used boats that can satisfy my dream. (New is out of the question unless I win MEGABUCKS. If I do don't get between me and Shannon Yachts. Sorry Robinhood.)

I need a go any where boat 32-36'OAL traditional in design, modified full keel that I can fall in love with. Love is an absolute necessity.

So far there is Cape Dory and Allied. The CD33 & Allied Seawind II are similiar in water line length, beam, draft & displacement.

Cape Dory 33 are about $60K & Allied Seawind MKII are about $40K.

As much as I love my CD I have to ask this question...What does this $20K premium buy me?

Looking forward to the discussion.

Mike
A value investor

lheiges@compuserve.com

[Paul Marti]

Dear Mike, I too have paid the premium for Willow my CD33 (1984 #129) however after owning a CD31 I did not hesitate. Four years later I have no regrets, the workmanship is superb and repairs have been minimal. Also I can't put a price on the way I feel just looking at her and the confidence I have when I take her out alone. Can you put a price on all the compliments you get on your classy looking vessel. Mine was in great shape with a lot of extras I'm sure I could have shopped and dickered more but we are apparently all fools when it comes to boats and women, buy the boat and enjoy the ride, I don't think you'll ever look back! Paul

Keema31@aol.com

[rq]

some thoughts-

Last year i decided to sell my cd25d and look for another cape dory and found that for about the same money as a cd30 i could buy an allied seabreeze 35. Notwithstanding the change in loa this boat
(i know i'm going to take flak here) is what cape dory wanted to be. After looking at the few for sale i bought one and absolutely love it. Boats by Allied truly are in a different league.

I also looked at a seawind 32 versus CD33 and there simply is no comparison. If you intend to do any offshore sailing the massive strength and solidity of that boat makes the cape dory look like the "coastal cruiser" that it was designed to be. I know the cape dory can cruise the world but the allieds (especially the seawind) was designed from the beginning to do just that. Also I found that frequently boats of the sixties and seventies that have been kept going this long have had many if not most of the systems replaced. The circa 1980 cape dories that I looked at all were reaching the age of replacement of engines/sails/rigging/etc. Most had original everything just waiting for the next owner to bring them back up to speed (i too am a value investor). The owners enamored of there boats simply would not negotiate on price even with a 20 yr old salt water cooled dieselin need of replacement.
(there goes your 20K!)



rquaranto@worldnet.att.net