Cape Dory 33 Vs. Allied Seawind MKII

[Mike Thorpe]

At the risk of being keel hauled let me ask this question. Is a CD33 worth the $20K premium when compared to an Allied Seawind MKII?

Perhaps a little background information is in order. I am a 53 year old retired singlehander who lives on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. I have a CD27 (Lady Jane) that I love. However, in another year I plan to make the trip down the ICW and spend winters where it is warm.

Lady Jane, forgive me dear, is not enough boat for this dream. Consequently, I am starting to look around for used boats that can satisfy my dream. (New is out of the question unless I win MEGABUCKS. If I do don't get between me and Shannon Yachts. Sorry Robinhood.)

I need a go any where boat 32-36'OAL traditional in design, modified full keel that I can fall in love with. Love is an absolute necessity.

So far there is Cape Dory and Allied. The CD33 & Allied Seawind II are similiar in water line length, beam, draft & displacement.

Cape Dory 33 are about $60K & Allied Seawind MKII are about $40K.

As much as I love my CD I have to ask this question...What does this $20K premium buy me?

Looking forward to the discussion.

Mike
A value investor







mthorpe@capecod.net

[Bruce Bett]

The Allied Seawind Owners Association has a nice web site at http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Paradise/1131/

Bruce Bett
Sostenuto CD25 #496

At the risk of being keel hauled let me ask this question. Is a CD33 worth the $20K premium when compared to an Allied Seawind MKII?

Perhaps a little background information is in order. I am a 53 year old retired singlehander who lives on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. I have a CD27 (Lady Jane) that I love. However, in another year I plan to make the trip down the ICW and spend winters where it is warm.

Lady Jane, forgive me dear, is not enough boat for this dream. Consequently, I am starting to look around for used boats that can satisfy my dream. (New is out of the question unless I win MEGABUCKS. If I do don't get between me and Shannon Yachts. Sorry Robinhood.)

I need a go any where boat 32-36'OAL traditional in design, modified full keel that I can fall in love with. Love is an absolute necessity.

So far there is Cape Dory and Allied. The CD33 & Allied Seawind II are similiar in water line length, beam, draft & displacement.

Cape Dory 33 are about $60K & Allied Seawind MKII are about $40K.

As much as I love my CD I have to ask this question...What does this $20K premium buy me?

Looking forward to the discussion.

Mike
A value investor

bbett@macomb.cc.mi.us

[Greg Kozlowski]

Hi Mike,

Being a former Alberg 30 owner, and a long time admirer of Cape Dory
yachts particulary the 33 and 36, I think that
in terms of the hull lines, you are comparing apples and oranges.
Similar overall dimensions don't always produce the same shapes.
If you like the CD33 lines, and the price of Allieds, I suggest
you give the Luders designed Allied 33 a good look. There is
certainly much more similarity between the sweet lines of Alberg
and the sweet but bolder lines of Luders.Interiors pretty
close, too.

Cheers,
Greg



koz@seijo.ac.jp

[Mike Thorpe]

Thanks for the information Bruce. I have visited the Allied site(s) a number of times and they are very good. Just wish they were more active like this one.
Mike

The Allied Seawind Owners Association has a nice web site at http://www.geocities.com/TheTropics/Paradise/1131/

Bruce Bett
Sostenuto CD25 #496

mthorpe@capecod.net

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Mike,

You're going to take a beatin' for that question! Particularly since you already have a CD. There is just SOMETHING, SOMETHING very siginificant about a Cape Dory! Maybe it's that she will have all her flags aflyin' in 25 knot winds when everyone else is reefed at least once, and she loves it! Also, she's a CLASSIC! Cape Dorys, like good women, seem to get even better with age. (Upps, I'm going to take a beatin' for that one!) But honestly, I'm not familiar with the other vessel you describe, but Shannon would be a good second. One thing to think about in the ICW is draft. I understand that the DITCH is quite, how should I say it, THIN in spots. I guess most everyone with any draft runs aground (softly, it's mostly muddy bottoms) on their first trip down.

If you have a choice, opt for the Port and Starboard keel haulin', you don't have to hold your breath as long, and ya might just live through it! Fore & aft though is NOT a good idea! Have a good day...

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei (CD-30)

[Mike Thorpe]

Hi Mike,

Being a former Alberg 30 owner, and a long time admirer of Cape Dory
yachts particulary the 33 and 36, I think that
in terms of the hull lines, you are comparing apples and oranges.
Similar overall dimensions don't always produce the same shapes.
If you like the CD33 lines, and the price of Allieds, I suggest
you give the Luders designed Allied 33 a good look. There is
certainly much more similarity between the sweet lines of Alberg
and the sweet but bolder lines of Luders.Interiors pretty
close, too.


Cheers,
Greg

Hi Greg,

Thanks for your response. I agree on the lines discussion. Alberg is sweet and the Ludders 33 is similiar. However, the lines are my problem. Remember I am talking about spending the winter (October to May) sailing and living aboard this boat. I need interior volume.

The Allied, even though it is a foot and a half shorter overall than the CD33, it is a foot longer on the waterline, has 2 more inches in the beam and displaces an additional 1600 pounds.

Dare I say (please be gentle) the Allied is more boat than the CD33?

I am not bashing CD33s' or CD in general. Remember I own one. I am just in the information gathering / prepurchase stage and wondering if I'm missing something?

Thanks
Mike





mthorpe@capecod.net

[Mike Thorpe]

Hi Dave,

Just read your post. Guess we both couldn't sleep this morning. Thanks for your response but let me distance myself from your women / age discussion. I am dumb but not that dumb.

Your right about the ICW being a bit thin but the Allied draws 4" less than the CD33 (4'6" vs 4'10").You make a great straight man :>) Besides, as the Commadore once told me, everyone runs aground...just grab your rake, jump over the side and pretend your clamming; AFTER YOU TAKE THE BURGEE DOWN!

Have a good day
Mike

ps let the keel hauling begin

Mike,

You're going to take a beatin' for that question! Particularly since you already have a CD. There is just SOMETHING, SOMETHING very siginificant about a Cape Dory! Maybe it's that she will have all her flags aflyin' in 25 knot winds when everyone else is reefed at least once, and she loves it! Also, she's a CLASSIC! Cape Dorys, like good women, seem to get even better with age. (Upps, I'm going to take a beatin' for that one!) But honestly, I'm not familiar with the other vessel you describe, but Shannon would be a good second. One thing to think about in the ICW is draft. I understand that the DITCH is quite, how should I say it, THIN in spots. I guess most everyone with any draft runs aground (softly, it's mostly muddy bottoms) on their first trip down.

If you have a choice, opt for the Port and Starboard keel haulin', you don't have to hold your breath as long, and ya might just live through it! Fore & aft though is NOT a good idea! Have a good day...

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei (CD-30)

mthorpe@capecod.net

[Chris]

Mike - Let me offer an additional factor which might help you justify a CD purchase. Get a CD33 for less than $60K. I had been in the market to replace my old Ericson with a CD for many years. I always admired the CD classic lines and seaworthiness. I then found a posting on this board and was able to buy a new condition CD330 (which offers the extra cabin room) for closer to $50K.

Unless you are in a rush to replace your current CD, I would suggest you wait for the boat you truly want. If you are unsuccessful in your search for a CD33 - CD36 at a lower price, then decide if you want to pay a "premium" for the CD.

I was able to purchase my previous boat from a gentleman who had been using it entertain his secretary, which his wife did not appreciate. I was able to offer him a cash transaction (which he needed for the divorce) and quick settlement. I recently sold the boat for $5K less than I paid for it 11 years ago! Good deals are out their.

Good luck

[zeida cecilia-mendez]

Mike: As the owner of Bandolera II, a wonderful, beautiful, strong 1981/82 CD-33, I of course, favor it over the Allied. There are some for sale right there in the web, and the price does NOT have to be in the $60's. I got mine for $43, down here in Miami, FL. And I know that my Canadian friends Liz & Tom Robinson from Wind Chime -currently in the Tampa area, got theirs for $45 and Derek Hillen, from "Galileo" currently in Mexico, also from Canada, paid $48 for his. My boat came with Harken rollerfurler, lazyjacks, Datamarine instruments (all 3) Edson pedestal steering, autohelm 3000 autopilot, in superb condition, inside and out. So look for the best one around and make your offer. Do not get discouraged. The space and comfort in the 33 is great, you can easily live in it, anywhere. Liz&Tom and Derek, in their respective boats, came down from Canada via the ICW this past December, and have been cruising and gunkholing down these ways ever since. I had been corresponding with them via the web site, and when they came thru Miami, they stopped at my marina, and so we all got to meet and spent a wonderful afternoon with our three boats rafted together, comparing and admiring the little upgrades and changes in each one. they are great boats, and for the money, you can not get anything better. Of course, we all dream about winning the lottery, and I agree with you!!! Morris or Shannons, here we come! in the meantime, Cape Dory is the closest you can come to it. Good luck hunting!
Zeida



zcecil@ibm.net

[zeida cecilia-mendez]

Mike: If you are really interested, there is a CD-33 advertised in the web some time ago that caught my attention. it is very well equipped, apparently in excellent condition, one owner who is moving up. This is a 1980, and asking price $60, but you should make your offer. For that year, they should not expect to get anymore than $45. The boat is in California, and you can have it trucked to wherever you are. That is a charge you can use to bargain with. Contact Chuck Rust at "crust@ci.santa-rosa.ca.us" Cheers.
Zeida



zcecil@ibm.net

[Bonnie Gilmore]

Mike,

I have to agree with Dave Stump ~ CD's do get better with age! As Zeida mentioned in her response, we have a '80 CD33 for sale in the SF Bay Area. She's really in wonderful condition and worth we feel, our asking price. I like that you're a prudent investor however, (investments are my day job), and acknowledge that (asking) prices are negotiable. Give us a call (707) 539-9564 or e-mail us and we can send pictures if you're interested. Zeida's comment about trucking boats was excellent too. I think we often dismiss out of the area boats without considering this option.

Bonnie Gilmore & Chuck Rust
CD 33 Southern Cross, Berkeley

At the risk of being keel hauled let me ask this question. Is a CD33 worth the $20K premium when compared to an Allied Seawind MKII?

Perhaps a little background information is in order. I am a 53 year old retired singlehander who lives on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. I have a CD27 (Lady Jane) that I love. However, in another year I plan to make the trip down the ICW and spend winters where it is warm.

Lady Jane, forgive me dear, is not enough boat for this dream. Consequently, I am starting to look around for used boats that can satisfy my dream. (New is out of the question unless I win MEGABUCKS. If I do don't get between me and Shannon Yachts. Sorry Robinhood.)

I need a go any where boat 32-36'OAL traditional in design, modified full keel that I can fall in love with. Love is an absolute necessity.

So far there is Cape Dory and Allied. The CD33 & Allied Seawind II are similiar in water line length, beam, draft & displacement.

Cape Dory 33 are about $60K & Allied Seawind MKII are about $40K.

As much as I love my CD I have to ask this question...What does this $20K premium buy me?

Looking forward to the discussion.

Mike
A value investor

bgilmore@ci.santa-rosa-ca-us

[Lyn Heiges]

Mike,

I think what you responded to with Bruce Bett has a lot to say about the interest and the owners of the two brands of yachts. Also what you read from Dave Stump IS TRUE!! (Married to Carol 33-years.)

I have a CD27 (#186) which I have had for 14+ years and I could ask for nothing more than additional power and space. I recently purchased (September 1998)a CD28 which had considerable more power with the replacement Yanmar 2GM20F, but little additional space as water tanks take a lot more otherwise usable space, BUT I AM NOT complaining. I have a friend with the Allied and it is a fine boat and he recently had it Imron-ed. When I bought MOON CHILD, the CD28, I did it because it was a Cape Dory! I know how she is built and not that others are not as well built, I don't think there are any BETTER DESIGNED AND BUILT! You can get a lot of support right here on this website with knowledgeable, sincere people and support is genuine which is worth a lot of money. I am frugal and don't like to waste money, however, I have never had any serious expense or had to do something because Cape Dory "did't do it right"!! The house and cars cost much more to maintain and a lot of other boats are right in there with those expenditures. Cape Dorys are GREAT, CLASSIC boats!

I single hand a lot and have for 20+ years and the CDs are generally easy to do it with. They are also rugged and forgiving, so when you do something stupid, as we all do occassionaly, she probably isn't going to sustain any real or permanent damage unless you pull off the bowsprit, stantions, or mast. You still can get all the goodies from the original manufacturers, too! I do not live aboard yet as Carol hasn't thrown me out, although we both enjoy retreating to the "other home" overnight in the back yard or when cruising.

As you can see, I am a VERY ARDENT Cape Dory FAN and I think you will get the money out of your investment with the CD. You may have to sell it for less than what you paid for it, but the upkeep and other costs will net you less expense, so in the long run you have more money overall returned.

Sincerely,

Lyn Heiges
CD28 MOON CHILD
CD27 GUILLEMOT

At the risk of being keel hauled let me ask this question. Is a CD33 worth the $20K premium when compared to an Allied Seawind MKII?

Perhaps a little background information is in order. I am a 53 year old retired singlehander who lives on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. I have a CD27 (Lady Jane) that I love. However, in another year I plan to make the trip down the ICW and spend winters where it is warm.

Lady Jane, forgive me dear, is not enough boat for this dream. Consequently, I am starting to look around for used boats that can satisfy my dream. (New is out of the question unless I win MEGABUCKS. If I do don't get between me and Shannon Yachts. Sorry Robinhood.)

I need a go any where boat 32-36'OAL traditional in design, modified full keel that I can fall in love with. Love is an absolute necessity.

So far there is Cape Dory and Allied. The CD33 & Allied Seawind II are similiar in water line length, beam, draft & displacement.

Cape Dory 33 are about $60K & Allied Seawind MKII are about $40K.

As much as I love my CD I have to ask this question...What does this $20K premium buy me?

Looking forward to the discussion.

Mike
A value investor

lheiges@compuserve.com

[Bruce Bett]

Hear him! Hear him! Hear Them ALL!!!

Bruce Bett
Sostenuto
Cd25 #496

Mike,

I think what you responded to with Bruce Bett has a lot to say about the interest and the owners of the two brands of yachts. Also what you read from Dave Stump IS TRUE!! (Married to Carol 33-years.)

I have a CD27 (#186) which I have had for 14+ years and I could ask for nothing more than additional power and space. I recently purchased (September 1998)a CD28 which had considerable more power with the replacement Yanmar 2GM20F, but little additional space as water tanks take a lot more otherwise usable space, BUT I AM NOT complaining. I have a friend with the Allied and it is a fine boat and he recently had it Imron-ed. When I bought MOON CHILD, the CD28, I did it because it was a Cape Dory! I know how she is built and not that others are not as well built, I don't think there are any BETTER DESIGNED AND BUILT! You can get a lot of support right here on this website with knowledgeable, sincere people and support is genuine which is worth a lot of money. I am frugal and don't like to waste money, however, I have never had any serious expense or had to do something because Cape Dory "did't do it right"!! The house and cars cost much more to maintain and a lot of other boats are right in there with those expenditures. Cape Dorys are GREAT, CLASSIC boats!

I single hand a lot and have for 20+ years and the CDs are generally easy to do it with. They are also rugged and forgiving, so when you do something stupid, as we all do occassionaly, she probably isn't going to sustain any real or permanent damage unless you pull off the bowsprit, stantions, or mast. You still can get all the goodies from the original manufacturers, too! I do not live aboard yet as Carol hasn't thrown me out, although we both enjoy retreating to the "other home" overnight in the back yard or when cruising.

As you can see, I am a VERY ARDENT Cape Dory FAN and I think you will get the money out of your investment with the CD. You may have to sell it for less than what you paid for it, but the upkeep and other costs will net you less expense, so in the long run you have more money overall returned.

Sincerely,

Lyn Heiges
CD28 MOON CHILD
CD27 GUILLEMOT

At the risk of being keel hauled let me ask this question. Is a CD33 worth the $20K premium when compared to an Allied Seawind MKII?

Perhaps a little background information is in order. I am a 53 year old retired singlehander who lives on Cape Cod in Massachusetts. I have a CD27 (Lady Jane) that I love. However, in another year I plan to make the trip down the ICW and spend winters where it is warm.

Lady Jane, forgive me dear, is not enough boat for this dream. Consequently, I am starting to look around for used boats that can satisfy my dream. (New is out of the question unless I win MEGABUCKS. If I do don't get between me and Shannon Yachts. Sorry Robinhood.)

I need a go any where boat 32-36'OAL traditional in design, modified full keel that I can fall in love with. Love is an absolute necessity.

So far there is Cape Dory and Allied. The CD33 & Allied Seawind II are similiar in water line length, beam, draft & displacement.

Cape Dory 33 are about $60K & Allied Seawind MKII are about $40K.

As much as I love my CD I have to ask this question...What does this $20K premium buy me?

Looking forward to the discussion.

Mike
A value investor

bbett@macomb.cc.mi.us

[Skip]

Mike

I have sailed the Allied Mistress 39 (a ketch), but not the 36 and own a CD33. My experience on the 39 was as crew on a rough November passage from Long Island to Bermuda in which we experienced winds > 40 kn and seas in the 20+ range. A major advantage of this boat is the multiple sail combinations that are possible with a ketch. After the double reefed main and partially furled jib, we passed through jib and jigger to finally just the staysail. With appropriate sails the boat was quite safe, but not comfortable. She, and the 36 have a lot of windage and a relatively shallow draft and hence she made quite a bit of leeway as well as being tender. Under these conditions leeway was preferable to knockdown.

Allied's in general have a reputaion for being quite tender. A few years ago I read something similar about the Allied Princess 36.

At the time of the Bermuda passage I was between boats but negotiating the purchase of a Catalina 34. Not having been to sea for several years (desk bound former oceanographer) I realized how much I missed bluewater and withdrew the Catalina offer. I evaluated an Allied 36 quite seriously but within a month I found and purchased the CD33. I have never regretted purchasing this boat.

I've sailed the CD 33 under similar winds of shorter duration and fetch and about half the wave height. Again, with the appropriate sail combination she is extremely safe, but also extremely comfortable. The CD330 would give you a staysail which would centralize the center of effort of the foretriangle and provide a better balanced reefed sail plan, but i haven't missed this on the 33. Also, relative to leeway, for coastal sailing you may want to minimize this potential in your choice between boats.

In light wind the 33 does quite well for its high D/L (but i pick my challenges with discretion and don't declare them until they have been won), but she is sure not a J. I'm not familiar with the SA/D or D/L for the Allied 36.

Finally, the craftsmanship on the Cape Dory line, as I'm sure you've noticed inyour boat, is quite high relative to the Allieds.

Best of luck

Skip



medeiros@bnl.gov

[Mike Thorpe]

Zeida,

As I said to Chris on another post I am still a year away from my next boat and I will be looking hard between now and then. In between I still have to find a suitable home for "Lady Jane."

With luck I will be spending winters in Florida / Bahamas in a couple of years. The 2 feet of snow we just got here on Cape Cod convinces me that the plan is sound now for implementation.

Regards
Mike

Mike: As the owner of Bandolera II, a wonderful, beautiful, strong 1981/82 CD-33, I of course, favor it over the Allied. There are some for sale right there in the web, and the price does NOT have to be in the $60's. I got mine for $43, down here in Miami, FL. And I know that my Canadian friends Liz & Tom Robinson from Wind Chime -currently in the Tampa area, got theirs for $45 and Derek Hillen, from "Galileo" currently in Mexico, also from Canada, paid $48 for his. My boat came with Harken rollerfurler, lazyjacks, Datamarine instruments (all 3) Edson pedestal steering, autohelm 3000 autopilot, in superb condition, inside and out. So look for the best one around and make your offer. Do not get discouraged. The space and comfort in the 33 is great, you can easily live in it, anywhere. Liz&Tom and Derek, in their respective boats, came down from Canada via the ICW this past December, and have been cruising and gunkholing down these ways ever since. I had been corresponding with them via the web site, and when they came thru Miami, they stopped at my marina, and so we all got to meet and spent a wonderful afternoon with our three boats rafted together, comparing and admiring the little upgrades and changes in each one. they are great boats, and for the money, you can not get anything better. Of course, we all dream about winning the lottery, and I agree with you!!! Morris or Shannons, here we come! in the meantime, Cape Dory is the closest you can come to it. Good luck hunting!
Zeida

mthorpe@capecod.net