Blue Ooze Update

[Donald HIll]

Thanks to all who made input to my earlier plea for info about the "blue ooze" problem. I have read about a lot different theories on the CD website and heard more locally.
No one knows for sure, or so it appears. But the most authentic word came from the surveyor who surveyed the boat in Mass. before I purchased and had it moved to NC. The surveyor at one time worked for CD. He stated it seemed to be the cobalt cd used in the winter months. The cobalt speeds up drying. He checked my hull serial # and sure enough it was built in December, 86.
When a boat built in New England is moved south and to warmer waters, according to the surveyor, this type of blistering is prone to happen. Most NE boats are in the water for a short season, while here in the warmer clims the boat stays in year round.
The warmer water brings the cobalt to the surface. He further stated the problem appears to be cosmetic at this stage, but could develop into a serious moisture problem in the future. He recommends a drying out period followed by a barrier coat.

A local boatyard laborer who has been repairing fiberglass for years and years said much the same, except he thought the blistering would stay in the cosmetic zone. Once the cobalt is exposed to the air it dries rather quickly.

Oh well, if not a few problems, why a sailboat?

Thanks for your imput.

Don



djhill@coastalnet.com

[zeida cecilia-mendez]

Don: As you can guess, I am now obsessed about the "blue ooze" coming out of my rudder and keel. your posting of today -Feb. 10- makes the most sense to me and it matches what I was sort of told by two fiberglass makers down at the yard where I had my CD-33. I am in Miami, and the boat is in the water all year round except for haul-out which I just did after 1-1/2 year. My boat is a 1981 and I am the third owner. She is in beautiful condition other than this ooze problem. The recommendation here is the same. Haul out, strip rudder and keel down to the fiberglass and put the boat to dry for at least one month, then moisture test it. When really dry, put several coats of epoxy to seal the glass thoroughly, (which apparently is not the case now) Then apply a quality barrier coat, then the anti-fouling bottom paint. Down here in Miami, with boats in the water all the time, most of the yards recommend Trinidad 70 (Petit) saying that it holds up better in this warm weather. They told me that this hole process would cost up to $6,000. That is a lot of $$$. Is this more or less normal? Anyway, my boat had to go back in the water with the blue stuff oozing from the rudder post, and from minute pinholes all along the keel. Let's hope the problem is not agravated until my next haul-out. If you find out any more about it, please post it. thanks.

Zeida
Bandolera II / CD-33
Key Biscayne, Miami, FL



zcecil@ibm.net

[Dana]

Blue Ooze.....

Well, many of you already know that my 85 CD26 was hit with the blue ooze after the 87 season. Had it with blisters on most of the hull but mainly around the waterline and along the forward sections of the hull. All of this in the Block Island sound area. Not really the warmest southern water you can find.

My treatment was what many of you would consider traditional....opening the affected spots, drying the hull thru the interior winter, taking the bottom paint off completely, filling with two part filler, barrier coat, etc. BTW, the deck was laid up in Oct 84 and the hull in Nov 84.

Bad news was I had them again the next year....and honestly it did not seem to be any less.....but......I repaired them again and adopted a program of attacking them each time I haul. The repair this time was spot or small area repair. I did not take off all the bottom paint. Never any problem in the laminate. They went from 100's to 50's to 20's.....with each following year....to a very small amount each time I haul now (every couple years). But since those first few times, I moved to the warmer waters of the Cheaspeake Bay. And the repair program I used was blister cutout, grind, clean with acetone, layer of West 105 epoxy, fill with two part, layer of West Epoxy, paint.

Never found anyone who would say....these will not return if they repaired them...garanteed. So rather than spend the thousands and be disappointed I have reworked them myself. If any of you decide to remove an area of paint from the bottom or all of the paint, I would strongly suggest the West System. My slip neighbor had 100s of blisters occur on his 78 Cal next to me. n He had never had a problem until then.

Used the West System himself....lots of work....but nothing reappeared the next year. He had pulled his boat out of concern but the bottom was just beautiful.

Anyway....just some thoughts passed on to you.



darenius@aol.com

[John]

Thanks to all who made input to my earlier plea for info about the "blue ooze" problem. I have read about a lot different theories on the CD website and heard more locally.
No one knows for sure, or so it appears. But the most authentic word came from the surveyor who surveyed the boat in Mass. before I purchased and had it moved to NC. The surveyor at one time worked for CD. He stated it seemed to be the cobalt cd used in the winter months. The cobalt speeds up drying. He checked my hull serial # and sure enough it was built in December, 86.
When a boat built in New England is moved south and to warmer waters, according to the surveyor, this type of blistering is prone to happen. Most NE boats are in the water for a short season, while here in the warmer clims the boat stays in year round.
The warmer water brings the cobalt to the surface. He further stated the problem appears to be cosmetic at this stage, but could develop into a serious moisture problem in the future. He recommends a drying out period followed by a barrier coat.

A local boatyard laborer who has been repairing fiberglass for years and years said much the same, except he thought the blistering would stay in the cosmetic zone. Once the cobalt is exposed to the air it dries rather quickly.

Oh well, if not a few problems, why a sailboat?

Thanks for your imput.

Don

Well Don, pardon me for the following opinion, but maybe yes or maybe no as to whether barrier coat is the answer. You need a chemists opinion on the cobalt issue before you come to any conclusions one way or the other. Barrier coats as you know are for prevention of osmosis, water (moisture) being absorbed into the FRP laminate either from the outside or the inside of the hull. I for one don't see what that has to do with preventing "warm water drawing cobalt to the surface of the laminate" - paraphrase. I think what might be occuring is in actuality a osmosis problem and the moisture being absorbed is causing chemical reactions to take place resulting in the ooze (a case for barrier coat). The "warm water" cause would be quite low on my list of probabilities. Perhaps someone reading this interesting topic has some scientific experience dealing with cobalt and its thermal characteristics and can add some clarity to the theory. My assumption is that the warm water down here in the south has nothing to do with it. Our CD is in Florida, she's been in the water since new in '83 , excluding haulouts every two years. She has no barrier coat and has had a few very small blisters, typical of CD's. No blue ooze, not ever. My theory is that some hulls are simply predisposed to the cobalt problem (assuming it is cobalt since it hasn't been confirmed) due to resin mix variations in the glass shop during manufacture. Perhaps different resins were used at different production dates or years (not necessarily seasonal), different suppliers, warmer - colder days, higher/lower humidity, there are all sorts of variables that could be at the root of the ooze problem. Anyone with any experience working at a production boat manufacturing facility knows full well about all the variables in product quality that occur, especially in the glass shop stage of construction. I've done barrier coat jobs on other boats here in Florida and I can say it takes a long while to dry out a hull due to the high humidity. That goes for much of the southeast as well. Many, many weeks is usually the rule, including the use of heat lamps and fans, sometimes in combination with "tenting" the hull from the waterline down with visqueen plastic to create a generally dry atmosphere to accelerate the drying process as much as possible. I've seen expensive barrier coats fail in very short order, wet bilges suspect, but improper laminate drying is not an unusual culprit. Before applying a barrier coat I found making moisture meter comparisons of the laminate just below the sheer all around the hull at predetermined stations and comparing those readings to hull readings below the waterline at the same stations is the best way to determine when a hull is uniformly dry. Down here in Florida I've seen hulls very wet with 25% plus on the meter take 6 months or longer to dry out to 10% or less. I think when a hull starts getting a fairly moderate amount of moisture (warm or cold) in the laminate chemical agents begin to migrate and all sorts of oddities begin to occur. Have you ever wondered why Isocyanate resins (spelling ?) are so resistant to blistering (water/moisture absorbtion) without barrier coat protection? Epoxy barriers certainly don't seem to care whether water is warm or cold. It's interesting you say the ooze dries quickly when it is on the surface. Obviously that indicates to me you have a wet hull, have you taken any meter readings yet? I would bet they will be rather high in the areas where you see the ooze forming. Dependent on meter reading results I would strip all the gel from the waterline down, wash it over and over and over many times, day after day with just clear clean water. That process will draw contaminates to the surface as the wetted laminate dries. Then wash again and again, many more times as every time you wash you are rinsing away the contaminates brought to the surface by the previous washing. When you finally can take meter readings of less than 10% (down south) do your barrier job. I like the use of Vinyl based bottom paints down here in our warm waters. Experience has shown they perform very well (Woolsey Vinelast) and have a harder surface which leads to better moisture protection, in combination with the barrier coat. Vinyl paints being harder are less prone to abrasion as well. They go on thinner so build up is less over the years. I hope this ooze topic is discussed more. I'd like to read about others experiences, observations and theories. Good luck with the ooze, I hope I said something that may be of help to you.

[Catherine Monaghan]

Don,

Our CD32, also of 1986 vintage, lives in the waters of NJ and also has the blue ooze problem. I don't think warm southern waters has anything to do with its onset. We're lucky if the water ever gets above 60 degrees around here.

Wish I had some answers for you, but I don't.

Oh well.

catherin_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Raritan Bay

Thanks to all who made input to my earlier plea for info about the "blue ooze" problem. I have read about a lot different theories on the CD website and heard more locally.
No one knows for sure, or so it appears. But the most authentic word came from the surveyor who surveyed the boat in Mass. before I purchased and had it moved to NC. The surveyor at one time worked for CD. He stated it seemed to be the cobalt cd used in the winter months. The cobalt speeds up drying. He checked my hull serial # and sure enough it was built in December, 86.
When a boat built in New England is moved south and to warmer waters, according to the surveyor, this type of blistering is prone to happen. Most NE boats are in the water for a short season, while here in the warmer clims the boat stays in year round.
The warmer water brings the cobalt to the surface. He further stated the problem appears to be cosmetic at this stage, but could develop into a serious moisture problem in the future. He recommends a drying out period followed by a barrier coat.

A local boatyard laborer who has been repairing fiberglass for years and years said much the same, except he thought the blistering would stay in the cosmetic zone. Once the cobalt is exposed to the air it dries rather quickly.

Oh well, if not a few problems, why a sailboat?

Thanks for your imput.

Don

catherine_monaghan@merck.com