Bottom Paint Advice Sought

[Bill Goldsmith]

My 1980 CD27 was new to me last spring and has innumerable coats of bottom paint. My hull (fortunately) is not experiencing any blisters, ooze, etc. I therefore don't see the need to do a barrier coat. Should I consider one anyway?

Upon haul-out last fall the power-washer took off portions of the last coat; I don't know how to tell if it's an ablative or other type. New paints seem to be picky about what you put them over. Questions: Should I take all the old paint off and start from scratch so I'll always know what's there (this way I could choose *any* new paint)? Or should I just scrape and sand to well-adhered coating and use a new paint that seems campatible with most existing coatings? If the last coating was an ablative, how can I tell?

Lee Hodsdon's experience with the CSC is interesting. Despite an initially higher outlay of cash (and probably labor) subsequent years only require touch-ups.

This will be my first painting season so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill



goldy@bestweb.net

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Bill,
As far as the barrier coat goes, maybe the old adage "If it ain't broke, don't fix it!" applies. I would not strip off all the old bottom paint. The statement "when power washed, some of the last coat came off.." might be an indication that someone applied a coat of bottom paint over an existing coat that was not compatible with the new paint, hence an adhesion problem. If that happened, you might need to sand off the last coat and go back to the original or second to the last coat. I don't know how you would tell what type of paint it is that you can see now, other than asking the previous owner, if you can contact him. Of course, if what you see now is working well, and is basically intact, I don't think I would repaint until necessary. See the previous post I placed today and the answers I got. Even if you can find out what brand was applied the last two coats, you could contact the manufacture's and ask the question of compatibility. Hope this helps...

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Mike Everett]

I agree with Dave - "If it aint' broke, don't fix it."
Generally, boats that are hauled for several months annually don't develop the blisters and other water saturation problems that the more southerly boats do. So if your boat has been a northern boat, it's almost certainly OK with regard to blisters. At least you may as well assume that.
Interlux makes a bottom paint -- I think it's called Fiberglass Bottomcote -- that's advertised to stick to any previous paint. I've used it and had good luck with it.
Happy sailing!
Mike Everett



everett@megalink.net

[Dana]

Bill,

It's not too early to think about bottom paint. I switched over to CSC myself on my CD26. I pull the boat about every 3 years or so, here in southern Virginia. From what you describe, it sounds like you have a standard hard epoxy bottom paint. Because it will oxidize in air, the bottom would have to be repainted just prior to launching. The hard epoxy paint does not allow new copper to be exposed as a fresh layer of biocide.

Anyway I changed to the CSC because I am lazy and don't want to spend a lot of money. I find that a good multi-season paint lasts me about 3 years of good protection. Because it is abative, it is easy to work with when I do the bottom. There is also no build up from year to year. It is easy to feather any rough edges and I only gently and lightly wet sand the surface, thoughly rehose it to remove the sanding grit and repaint. I use about 1-1/2 gallons of paint in the three year period. I generally do not get any barnacles. I find I do not have the flaking as I did with epoxy paints.

Because it is abative, fresh areas of biocides are exposed when you relaunch.
As mentioned by others, extra touch ups in high wear areas and sometimes employ a different color "wear indicator" layer. I started the CSC with no old epoxy layers. If you want to remove the old layers is up to you. If you have about seven seasons of paint on her, you may want to take it off. The CSC type paint will go over good epoxy paint.

But the best advice I can give you is..... start setting yourself up with a good performance, low maintenance, and cost effective (because it can be hauled, touched up, and multi season) CSC type paint program. Even if you haul each year. Less work, less cost, good protection.



darenius@aol.com

[D. Stump, Hanalei]

Bill & Dana,

I was just on the net at interlux.com searching for their recomendation on when to re-coat a bottom. I noted in their explanation of "types of antifouling paint" this statement: "Ablative types such as fiberglass bottomkote ACT do not retain their antifouling ability for more than 30 days after being hauled out." I guess that's the story from the horses mouth so to speak, so I guess I will lightly sand the bottom, wash it off with fresh water, and repaint with a new coat of ACT. Dana is right, the CSC is superior if you don't want to repaint every year. I guess you either pay them now or pay them later! I used to think that CSC (the original stuff) would kill a clam at 6 feet! Used it on my brother's CD-30 and it held up just fine!

You know, I really like this site!! Where else can you find such nice people all with the same concerns?? It's almost 50 degrees here in Connecticut today with a 25 knot wind... I wish her bottom WAS painted, the yard would be putting her in today!

Dave Stump
Captain Commanding
s/v Hanalei CD-30

[Catherine Monaghan]

According to the owner's manual for our boat, a 1986 CD32, CSC Micron wat the paint that was originally applied by Cape Dory to the bottom of our boat's hull. Chances are that they used CSC Micron on your boat too. It's one of the few paints available in dark brown. If your boat's bottom is blue, I guess it can be anything.

Also, CSC Micron is not a multi-season paint where CSC Micron Extra is. It is okay to use the Extra over the plain CSC Micron and you should get at least two seasons out of it.

catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Raritan Bay

My 1980 CD27 was new to me last spring and has innumerable coats of bottom paint. My hull (fortunately) is not experiencing any blisters, ooze, etc. I therefore don't see the need to do a barrier coat. Should I consider one anyway?

Upon haul-out last fall the power-washer took off portions of the last coat; I don't know how to tell if it's an ablative or other type. New paints seem to be picky about what you put them over. Questions: Should I take all the old paint off and start from scratch so I'll always know what's there (this way I could choose *any* new paint)? Or should I just scrape and sand to well-adhered coating and use a new paint that seems campatible with most existing coatings? If the last coating was an ablative, how can I tell?

Lee Hodsdon's experience with the CSC is interesting. Despite an initially higher outlay of cash (and probably labor) subsequent years only require touch-ups.

This will be my first painting season so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill

catherine_monaghan@merck.com

[jerry]

take a look at the responses i received to a Jan. 11 message; also, lots more responses on a Jan. 30 message (archive #40) on the cruisingworld.com message board [also, earlier same day replys to 'jim';
i'm still leaning toward using 'gluvit' for the barrier coat.



jljcm@nowonline.com

[Bill Goldsmith]

My circa 1978 owners' manual says that "Your Cape Dory was painted with Dolphinite #9303 Dark Blue (vinyl-resin-based) or Woolsey #706 Brilliant Green (plasticized resin binder)." Next time I'm at the yard I'll see if any of the original color is there (19 seasons later????).

This is a great board, with great people!!!! Thanks for all the input!!!

According to the owner's manual for our boat, a 1986 CD32, CSC Micron wat the paint that was originally applied by Cape Dory to the bottom of our boat's hull. Chances are that they used CSC Micron on your boat too. It's one of the few paints available in dark brown. If your boat's bottom is blue, I guess it can be anything.

Also, CSC Micron is not a multi-season paint where CSC Micron Extra is. It is okay to use the Extra over the plain CSC Micron and you should get at least two seasons out of it.

catherine_monaghan@merck.com
CD32 Realization
Raritan Bay

My 1980 CD27 was new to me last spring and has innumerable coats of bottom paint. My hull (fortunately) is not experiencing any blisters, ooze, etc. I therefore don't see the need to do a barrier coat. Should I consider one anyway?

Upon haul-out last fall the power-washer took off portions of the last coat; I don't know how to tell if it's an ablative or other type. New paints seem to be picky about what you put them over. Questions: Should I take all the old paint off and start from scratch so I'll always know what's there (this way I could choose *any* new paint)? Or should I just scrape and sand to well-adhered coating and use a new paint that seems campatible with most existing coatings? If the last coating was an ablative, how can I tell?

Lee Hodsdon's experience with the CSC is interesting. Despite an initially higher outlay of cash (and probably labor) subsequent years only require touch-ups.

This will be my first painting season so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill

goldy@bestweb.net

[John]

My 1980 CD27 was new to me last spring and has innumerable coats of bottom paint. My hull (fortunately) is not experiencing any blisters, ooze, etc. I therefore don't see the need to do a barrier coat. Should I consider one anyway?

Upon haul-out last fall the power-washer took off portions of the last coat; I don't know how to tell if it's an ablative or other type. New paints seem to be picky about what you put them over. Questions: Should I take all the old paint off and start from scratch so I'll always know what's there (this way I could choose *any* new paint)? Or should I just scrape and sand to well-adhered coating and use a new paint that seems campatible with most existing coatings? If the last coating was an ablative, how can I tell?

Lee Hodsdon's experience with the CSC is interesting. Despite an initially higher outlay of cash (and probably labor) subsequent years only require touch-ups.

This will be my first painting season so any suggestions would be appreciated.

Thanks

Bill

My advice is talk to others whose boats are kept near yours. Their local experience with various paints is most important. A great paint where you are may be a poor paint where I am. To many factors determine what is a good paint. Some are as follows:

Is the water fresh, salt or brackish?
Is the water cold or warm?
Is their much current?
Is the boat used much or does it sit at the dock?
Is the water clean or polluted?
Is the hull shaded or in the sun when docked?
Do you use a diver to scrub it down periodically?

You need to ask these and many other questions when considering paints.

[Giles Morris]

>The statement "when power washed, some of the last coat
>came off.." might be an indication that someone applied
>a coat of bottom paint over an existing coat that was not
>compatible with the new paint, hence an adhesion problem

Or, as I'm beginning to suspect in the case of my boat (a 1983 Vancouver 25) the original delivering dealer may not have completely removed the mold release wax. This has actually worked out quite well because the paint comes off down to the gel coat when I stand near it with a scraper and look threatening. I will be doing a thorough de-waxing before anything gets applied.

Giles Morris



Giles.Morris@unisys.com

[Don S.]

CSC recommends power washing to refresh the paint at the end of the season. If a trace coat of a different color, say, black, is used, you can easily tell if you have enough paint on for the next season. Usually the waterline, leading edge of the keel and any area hit by propwash will need touching up, I had flat areas of the hull of my previous boat hold up for years on the original two coats applied over the trace coat. The trace coat was applied when micron was micron -- nothing ever went near it

>The statement "when power washed, some of the last coat
>came off.." might be an indication that someone applied
>a coat of bottom paint over an existing coat that was not
>compatible with the new paint, hence an adhesion problem

Or, as I'm beginning to suspect in the case of my boat (a 1983 Vancouver 25) the original delivering dealer may not have completely removed the mold release wax. This has actually worked out quite well because the paint comes off down to the gel coat when I stand near it with a scraper and look threatening. I will be doing a thorough de-waxing before anything gets applied.

Giles Morris

Don@cliggott.com

[Bob Luby]

You are in the same situation I was in a few years ago with my 25D.

I decided to strip the bottom paint and go with Micron CSC Extra so I wouldn't have to strip it again. That way I know what is on the bottom.

If you are considering stripping, I recommend Peel-Away if you can get it. It's expensive but worth it because it works.

You can apply it on Saturday, wait overnight, and scrape it off on Sunday. Since it has a buttery consistency, you don't wind up covered with it. I just wish I had applied a barrier coat while I had the chance.



Rluby@aol.com

[Bill Goldsmith]

"I just wish I had applied a barrier coat while I had the chance."


Is that because you've got blisters/ooze/moisture, or some other reason??

thanks

Bill

You are in the same situation I was in a few years ago with my 25D.

I decided to strip the bottom paint and go with Micron CSC Extra so I wouldn't have to strip it again. That way I know what is on the bottom.

I just wish I had applied a barrier coat while I had the chance.

If you are considering stripping, I recommend Peel-Away if you can get it. It's expensive but worth it because it works.

You can apply it on Saturday, wait overnight, and scrape it off on Sunday. Since it has a buttery consistency, you don't wind up covered with it.

goldy@bestweb.net

[Bob Luby]

Is that because you've got blisters/ooze/moisture, or some other reason??

NO. I just want to prevent blisters/ooze/moisture.

My attitude is that this is the only boat I'm going to have, so I want to make it last. ( after all, what more do I need? )



Rluby@aol.com