cockpit floor deterioration

[nick friedman]

I have owned a Typhoon for the last eight years and in that time have
had an ongoing battle with soft spots and bubbles on my cockpit floor. Thus far I have taken a blast and fill approach where I will
remove the top layer of glass and then fill the underlying air pocket left from the rotten plywood subfloor with marine tex or a variety of other polyester resin type materials. So far this has shown to be a temporary solution, as new bubbles reveal themselves every season or two. I'm wondering if it might be wise to drill a tight pattern of small holes through the floor to the subfloor and then with a large syringe to shoot down hot resin in order to saturate any rotten subfloor. I could then fill the small holes and paint the whole mess. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks much,


Nick Friedman

Gainesville, Florida



nicaphonic@aol.com

[Bill Bloxham]

Hi Nick
I fixed the same problem with my Typhoon floor the east way - I recored the entire thing. The process went very fast and was simple and inexpensive to do. See the WEST System tech books ($3 ea.) for a complete discription.
In brief, you cut the entire floor upper layer of fiberglass out with a circular saw set to a 1/8" cut depth and lift it off (You may need a contractor's drywall handsaw to cut the good balsa or plywood left in the middle of the samwitch; this will be the hardest part). Then scrape out the remaining wood and lay in a 3/8" layer of Baltek Countorcote end grain balsa on top of a thin layer of epoxy resin and high adhesive filler mixture. Use the same mixture to glue the top back on. Fill in the saw kerf area with the same stuff and paint. It will be done forever and the balsa is a lot less expensive then all that epoxy injected year after year. Stronger, too. Good luck.



mmmmmmbill@aol.com

[Tom]

I have owned a Typhoon for the last eight years and in that time have
had an ongoing battle with soft spots and bubbles on my cockpit floor. Thus far I have taken a blast and fill approach where I will
remove the top layer of glass and then fill the underlying air pocket left from the rotten plywood subfloor with marine tex or a variety of other polyester resin type materials. So far this has shown to be a temporary solution, as new bubbles reveal themselves every season or two. I'm wondering if it might be wise to drill a tight pattern of small holes through the floor to the subfloor and then with a large syringe to shoot down hot resin in order to saturate any rotten subfloor. I could then fill the small holes and paint the whole mess. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks much,


Nick Friedman

Gainesville, Florida

Nick: If you want to try the drill little holes and inject resin technique, look into "Git Rot" rather than mixing a hot batch of resin. It's a thin epoxy that is designed to do exactly what you have in mind. It comes in a bottle that looks like Elmer's Glue and has a pointed cap for injecting. Available in all the catalogs and marine stores. Of course,if you later decide to do the real fix mentioned in the other posting, it will make it a lot harder to get the core up.

TacCambria@thegrid.net

[Don Sargeant]

I may be mistaken (please, someone, tell me if I am) but I think you'll have to dry the core before you inject the epoxy -- I agree that Git-Rot's a very good product -- I used it to repair some dry rot in an oak rudder last year and it penetrated all the bad wood, But that wood had been dried out over the winter in my barn.

Don Sargeant
COQUINA CD25D#189

I have owned a Typhoon for the last eight years and in that time have
had an ongoing battle with soft spots and bubbles on my cockpit floor. Thus far I have taken a blast and fill approach where I will
remove the top layer of glass and then fill the underlying air pocket left from the rotten plywood subfloor with marine tex or a variety of other polyester resin type materials. So far this has shown to be a temporary solution, as new bubbles reveal themselves every season or two. I'm wondering if it might be wise to drill a tight pattern of small holes through the floor to the subfloor and then with a large syringe to shoot down hot resin in order to saturate any rotten subfloor. I could then fill the small holes and paint the whole mess. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks much,


Nick Friedman

Gainesville, Florida

Nick: If you want to try the drill little holes and inject resin technique, look into "Git Rot" rather than mixing a hot batch of resin. It's a thin epoxy that is designed to do exactly what you have in mind. It comes in a bottle that looks like Elmer's Glue and has a pointed cap for injecting. Available in all the catalogs and marine stores. Of course,if you later decide to do the real fix mentioned in the other posting, it will make it a lot harder to get the core up.

don@cliggott.com

[John]

Nick,

My CD31 had a similar problem that the prior owner dealt with by removing the upper layer of glass, removing the core and replacing it with epoxy sealed marine plywood. The under layer was left intact and the new ply "core" was relaminated to it, then a new top layer of glass added, and non-skid redone.
Sounds like a lot of work, but eventually your blast and patch jobs will have to come out. The reason your bubbling continues is that the delamination continues. There is moisture still in side the core. It all has to come out or you'll never solve your problem.
I've used git-rot before and you can get good results on small repairs. To be completely effective in your case you'd have to firstly remove all moisture and fungus(it grows in there). Pressurized injections of acetone would acomplish that. But it would take alot of pressure, probably further delaminating the layers. Then you would have to pressure inject the git-rot to make it flow throughout the core.
Sound like a big hassle? It is ! Just get a router/laminate trimmer, run it around the perimiter of the cockpit and zip out the top layer of glass. It will probably peel off rather easily considering the amount of bubbling you have had. Then effect the repair I described above. In the long run, it will be better, and your LAST !!

Good Luck
John
CD31 #28 Aimless

I have owned a Typhoon for the last eight years and in that time have
had an ongoing battle with soft spots and bubbles on my cockpit floor. Thus far I have taken a blast and fill approach where I will
remove the top layer of glass and then fill the underlying air pocket left from the rotten plywood subfloor with marine tex or a variety of other polyester resin type materials. So far this has shown to be a temporary solution, as new bubbles reveal themselves every season or two. I'm wondering if it might be wise to drill a tight pattern of small holes through the floor to the subfloor and then with a large syringe to shoot down hot resin in order to saturate any rotten subfloor. I could then fill the small holes and paint the whole mess. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks much,


Nick Friedman

Gainesville, Florida

nuttallj@msn.com

[Tom (Again)]

I have owned a Typhoon for the last eight years and in that time have
had an ongoing battle with soft spots and bubbles on my cockpit floor. Thus far I have taken a blast and fill approach where I will
remove the top layer of glass and then fill the underlying air pocket left from the rotten plywood subfloor with marine tex or a variety of other polyester resin type materials. So far this has shown to be a temporary solution, as new bubbles reveal themselves every season or two. I'm wondering if it might be wise to drill a tight pattern of small holes through the floor to the subfloor and then with a large syringe to shoot down hot resin in order to saturate any rotten subfloor. I could then fill the small holes and paint the whole mess. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks much,


Nick Friedman

Gainesville, Florida

In answer to Don's post everything must be dry before any kind of resin will work right. It sounds to me like John and Bill know what they are talking about and have done it and seen it work. If I were doing it I'd follow their advice and do it right rather than try a system that may or may not work. If you insist on another opinion how about the guy that Walt posted up from Robinhood Marine who is looking to answer questions like this?

TacCambria@thegrid.net

[chuck yahrling]

I have owned a Typhoon for the last eight years and in that time have
had an ongoing battle with soft spots and bubbles on my cockpit floor. Thus far I have taken a blast and fill approach where I will
remove the top layer of glass and then fill the underlying air pocket left from the rotten plywood subfloor with marine tex or a variety of other polyester resin type materials. So far this has shown to be a temporary solution, as new bubbles reveal themselves every season or two. I'm wondering if it might be wise to drill a tight pattern of small holes through the floor to the subfloor and then with a large syringe to shoot down hot resin in order to saturate any rotten subfloor. I could then fill the small holes and paint the whole mess. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks much,


Nick Friedman

Gainesville, Florida

Nick;

I'm doing pretty much the same thing as Bill on my CD-27, except that I am making up a panel of glass skins with foam core, using peel-ply so the top surface will not require any work except applying the non-skid. The whole panel will be vacuum bagged courtesy of a buddy who is building a 47' cruising cat, and will require only fine fitting and gluing into the existing cockpit sole pan. The balsa core on my boat was so water-logged it squirted as I chiseled it off the pan!

Although you probably won't be, those with inboards might be interested to know that I found a source for prefab glass deck hatches with flush coamings, ($199 Hamilton Marine, Portland, ME) and will be glassing one into my panel when it is vacuum bagged. The hole is big enough so that I can sit on the bottom right in back of the stuffing box, giving great access to the reverse gear, shaft coupling, rear zinc and other hard-to-get items. Plus, I'm fitting up a baffle so that all that space between the lockers can be used for occasional storage.



yahrling@cybertours.com

[matt cawthorne]

Nick,
The previous posts are full of great advice, but there is one more detail that will keep the problem from haunting you in the future. Water got into the deck to start with. Even if you dry it out and bond in new core you must stop water from getting in there in the future. Most decks have some holes drilled in them somewhere for some reason. Simply using sealant will not keep moisture out forever. A good approach when dealing with holes in cored decks is to provide a permanent, solid barrier.
Whenever I work on a spot that has a hole through the deck I remove the fitting and spoil away the core as far beyond the edge of the hole and any local screw holes as I can. Usually this is an inch or so for large holes. Make sure that you get all of the core and don't leave a thin layer of balsa attached to the glass skin. Make sure that the core is dry and then fill the missing core back in with epoxy mixed with filler. Sand the edge of the hole to its original dimension or re-drill if it is a small hole. Use a good sealant to re-bed the fitting. Now when the sealant goes bad you may get a leak into the interior of the boat, but at least you will not have to fix the deck again. If the core stays wet you will have problems forever.

Good Luck
matt

I have owned a Typhoon for the last eight years and in that time have
had an ongoing battle with soft spots and bubbles on my cockpit floor. Thus far I have taken a blast and fill approach where I will
remove the top layer of glass and then fill the underlying air pocket left from the rotten plywood subfloor with marine tex or a variety of other polyester resin type materials. So far this has shown to be a temporary solution, as new bubbles reveal themselves every season or two. I'm wondering if it might be wise to drill a tight pattern of small holes through the floor to the subfloor and then with a large syringe to shoot down hot resin in order to saturate any rotten subfloor. I could then fill the small holes and paint the whole mess. I would greatly appreciate any advice.

Thanks much,


Nick Friedman

Gainesville, Florida

mcawthor@bellatlantic.net