I have a question about my 1983 27D, which I hope somebody can help me with. There are two aluminum tracks with stand-up blocks on my cabintop. The tracks are about four inches in from the edge of the cabintop. They start about level with the mast, and go aft a couple of feet, parallel with the edge of the cabintop.
I would have assumed they were for the jib sheets, except that for two things: they are quite a long way inboard, and the foresail sheets would pass way inside the shrouds; and they look too frail for the job. The track is only 3/4-inch wide, and the blocks are only about 1 1/2-inch diameter.
I can see that if they were heftier, they might provide a lead for a storm jib, but they certainly wouldn't be right for any headsail that overlaps the mast.
One other thing: the lead from the blocks to the cockpit winch is not fair. It would foul the cabintop, the handrail, and maybe the dodger as well. The sheet would need to be taken first to the genoa block on the toerail, thence to the winch.
At the moment I have a 150-percent foresail on a Hood System 3 roller furler, which I will get rid of as soon as I can figure out how to get if off. I am not a fan or furlers. So I haven't been able to try my working jib on the cabintop track.
I'd appreciate it if any CD27 owners who don't use furlers could tell me how they sheet their various jibs, and if, in fact, they make use of the cabintop tracks I've mentioned. Also, does anyone have standard 1-inch track and blocks in that position instead of what appears to be undersized 3/4-inch?
John Vigor
CD27 #251 "Sangoma"
Bellingham,WA
jvigorSPAMNOT@earthlink.net
27D jib leads
Moderator: Jim Walsh
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Warren Kaplan
Re: 27D jib leads
John,
I'm pretty sure those inboard tracks on the cabin top came as standard equipment on the CD27. They are for the small working jib that the original design called for. I have them on my boat but I have never used them. I have genoa tracks along the rail as to do most CD27s I know of. The genoa tracks were offered as optional equipment if I remember the sales brochure correctly. Does your boat have genoa tracks on it?
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY
Setsail728@aol.com
I'm pretty sure those inboard tracks on the cabin top came as standard equipment on the CD27. They are for the small working jib that the original design called for. I have them on my boat but I have never used them. I have genoa tracks along the rail as to do most CD27s I know of. The genoa tracks were offered as optional equipment if I remember the sales brochure correctly. Does your boat have genoa tracks on it?
Warren Kaplan
Sine Qua Non
CD27
Oyster Bay Harbor, NY
Setsail728@aol.com
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john vigor
Re: CD27 jib leads
Warren, yes, I do have genoa tracks. I looked at them and thought they'd be fine for a 120-150 percent genoa whose clew comes a long way aft, but they seem way outboard for a working jib or a storm jib--it looks as if you'd not be able to sheet the sail in close enough for a shy beat. But, as I said, I haven't tried it yet so maybe I'm wrong. Do I understand that you have never used a hanked-on working jib? Do you have a roller-furling jib then?
John V.
jvigor@SPAMNOT@earthlink.net
John V.
jvigor@SPAMNOT@earthlink.net
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Scott Ritchey
Re: 27D jib leads
My 1980 CD27 has same setup. I use those blocks for the small jib and (as you suspect) run the sheet through the genoa blocks for a good lead to the winch. My sails are hanked on.
john vigor wrote: I have a question about my 1983 27D, which I hope somebody can help me with. There are two aluminum tracks with stand-up blocks on my cabintop. The tracks are about four inches in from the edge of the cabintop. They start about level with the mast, and go aft a couple of feet, parallel with the edge of the cabintop.
I would have assumed they were for the jib sheets, except that for two things: they are quite a long way inboard, and the foresail sheets would pass way inside the shrouds; and they look too frail for the job. The track is only 3/4-inch wide, and the blocks are only about 1 1/2-inch diameter.
I can see that if they were heftier, they might provide a lead for a storm jib, but they certainly wouldn't be right for any headsail that overlaps the mast.
One other thing: the lead from the blocks to the cockpit winch is not fair. It would foul the cabintop, the handrail, and maybe the dodger as well. The sheet would need to be taken first to the genoa block on the toerail, thence to the winch.
At the moment I have a 150-percent foresail on a Hood System 3 roller furler, which I will get rid of as soon as I can figure out how to get if off. I am not a fan or furlers. So I haven't been able to try my working jib on the cabintop track.
I'd appreciate it if any CD27 owners who don't use furlers could tell me how they sheet their various jibs, and if, in fact, they make use of the cabintop tracks I've mentioned. Also, does anyone have standard 1-inch track and blocks in that position instead of what appears to be undersized 3/4-inch?
John Vigor
CD27 #251 "Sangoma"
Bellingham,WA
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David Brownlee
Re: 27D jib leads
That's also the arrangement we had on our CD27. We used four hanked-on jibs: a storm jib and a working jib that sheeted to the cabintop (and thence out to the track on the toe rail to get a fair lead to the winches) and a 110% genoa and 170% (yes!) genoa that sheeted directly to the track on the rail, then aft to turning blocks on the quarters before going to the winches.
David Brownlee
CD31 #1 "Windrush"
Havre de Grace
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu
David Brownlee
CD31 #1 "Windrush"
Havre de Grace
dbrownle@sas.upenn.edu
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Andy Denmark
Re: 27D jib leads
Hi John,
On Rhiannon I mounted a pair of #16 Lewmar 2-speed winches on the cabin top for the working jib tracks that you describe. Obviously, these cannot be used for any overlapping sail. The leads are not too far inboard -- I moved mine three inches further inboard to accomodate the full length handrails on the cabin top -- and the boat is much more weatherly for it. This arrangement makes single handing a snap, at least going to weather or close reaching. Further off the wind, I sheet the working jib outboard to the genoa tracks.
The Lewmar 16's were the primaries on the boat when she was new. I replaced them with Barient self-tailers (I forget the number but they are equivalent to Lewmar 30's) and now have no problem sheeting anything up to the 155% AP #1. All of this made Rhiannon much easier to sail as the larger winches have plenty of capacity and are seldom maxed out.
Oh, I did replace the 3/4" tracks on the cabin top with 1" as the smaller stuff was insufficient for the forces involved. The secret here is to use tracks with closer spacing for the block positioning holes as the higher aspect jibs are much more critical as to sheeting point than the larger gennys. Also, I use low profile blocks here and on the genoa tracks.
I don't use roller furling for personal reasons. A downhaul line insures quick sail dousing if need be. Rhiannon's inventory consists of a 95% max hoist crosscut jib, 130% #2 crosscut, AP (all purpose) 155% #1 (laminate), a 55 s.f. storm jib (that sheets to the outboard tracks), and a Banks assymetrical cruisng spinnaker with a Chutescoop.
This inventory eats up the entire port side cockpit locker space but we are never at a loss for a sail to fly.
Hope this helps.
Andy Denmark
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC
trekker@coastalnet.com
On Rhiannon I mounted a pair of #16 Lewmar 2-speed winches on the cabin top for the working jib tracks that you describe. Obviously, these cannot be used for any overlapping sail. The leads are not too far inboard -- I moved mine three inches further inboard to accomodate the full length handrails on the cabin top -- and the boat is much more weatherly for it. This arrangement makes single handing a snap, at least going to weather or close reaching. Further off the wind, I sheet the working jib outboard to the genoa tracks.
The Lewmar 16's were the primaries on the boat when she was new. I replaced them with Barient self-tailers (I forget the number but they are equivalent to Lewmar 30's) and now have no problem sheeting anything up to the 155% AP #1. All of this made Rhiannon much easier to sail as the larger winches have plenty of capacity and are seldom maxed out.
Oh, I did replace the 3/4" tracks on the cabin top with 1" as the smaller stuff was insufficient for the forces involved. The secret here is to use tracks with closer spacing for the block positioning holes as the higher aspect jibs are much more critical as to sheeting point than the larger gennys. Also, I use low profile blocks here and on the genoa tracks.
I don't use roller furling for personal reasons. A downhaul line insures quick sail dousing if need be. Rhiannon's inventory consists of a 95% max hoist crosscut jib, 130% #2 crosscut, AP (all purpose) 155% #1 (laminate), a 55 s.f. storm jib (that sheets to the outboard tracks), and a Banks assymetrical cruisng spinnaker with a Chutescoop.
This inventory eats up the entire port side cockpit locker space but we are never at a loss for a sail to fly.
Hope this helps.
Andy Denmark
CD-27 "Rhiannon"
Oriental, NC
trekker@coastalnet.com
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Clay Stalker
Re: 27D jib leads
Hi John:john vigor wrote:
I have a question about my 1983 27D, which I hope somebody can help me with. There are two aluminum tracks with stand-up blocks on my cabintop. The tracks are about four inches in from the edge of the cabintop. They start about level with the mast, and go aft a couple of feet, parallel with the edge of the cabintop.
I would have assumed they were for the jib sheets, except that for two things: they are quite a long way inboard, and the foresail sheets would pass way inside the shrouds; and they look too frail for the job. The track is only 3/4-inch wide, and the blocks are only about 1 1/2-inch diameter.
I can see that if they were heftier, they might provide a lead for a storm jib, but they certainly wouldn't be right for any headsail that overlaps the mast.
One other thing: the lead from the blocks to the cockpit winch is not fair. It would foul the cabintop, the handrail, and maybe the dodger as well. The sheet would need to be taken first to the genoa block on the toerail, thence to the winch.
At the moment I have a 150-percent foresail on a Hood System 3 roller furler, which I will get rid of as soon as I can figure out how to get if off. I am not a fan or furlers. So I haven't been able to try my working jib on the cabintop track.
I'd appreciate it if any CD27 owners who don't use furlers could tell me how they sheet their various jibs, and if, in fact, they make use of the cabintop tracks I've mentioned. Also, does anyone have standard 1-inch track and blocks in that position instead of what appears to be undersized 3/4-inch?
John Vigor
CD27 #251 "Sangoma"
Bellingham,WA
I have the same set-up as Warren on my CD27....I have never used the inboard tracks...they don't look strong enough...I just use them to anchor my lazy jacks. The outboard genoa track works fairly well for my 135 genoa with a Harken furler. Admittedly, I can't point as high as a hanked-on, closer sheeted sail, but the 135 works pretty well in most conditions, and the Harken has been flawless, even in some pretty wild wind conditions...I trust it completely. I would not have said that a few years ago...but the gear has improved dramatically.
Clay Stalker
CD27 Salsa hull #247
Bristol, R.I.
(sails down, ready to be hauled today...very sad)
cstalker@cheshire.net
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Bob B
Re: 27D jib leads
John,
The ones on my CD27 were the same as Andy's (I now own a 25D but liked the 27). I had the inboard tracks and used them quite a bit with the working and storm jibs. It really made a difference when bearing into heavy seas. The sheets were inboard enough for me to ease them some and bear off just a little. This made heading into the waves that a storm jib accompanies bear just off the head. Over here in NC the seas were short and choppy so the arrangement worked well.
Hope you get to use it some.
Bob B.
CD25D Tiva
Charleston, SC
BundyR@aol.com
The ones on my CD27 were the same as Andy's (I now own a 25D but liked the 27). I had the inboard tracks and used them quite a bit with the working and storm jibs. It really made a difference when bearing into heavy seas. The sheets were inboard enough for me to ease them some and bear off just a little. This made heading into the waves that a storm jib accompanies bear just off the head. Over here in NC the seas were short and choppy so the arrangement worked well.
Hope you get to use it some.
Bob B.
CD25D Tiva
Charleston, SC
BundyR@aol.com
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john vigor
CD27 jib leads
Thanks for all your replies. I think I get the picture now: the storm jib and working jib sheets are led through the blocks on the cabintop tracks. From there they go to the genoa blocks on the toerail farther aft, and then to the winch. Bigger foresails extending aft of the mast are sheeted directly to the aft toerail blocks.
I'm surprised that Cape Dory supplied 3/4-inch track and tiny blocks on the cabintop. You'd think they would have figured it out by the time they got to hull #251. I agree with those of you who feel that this system seems too flimsy to handle the loads imposed by a working jib or storm jib in heavy weather, and like Andy Denmark I intend to upgrade to 1-inch track and heftier blocks.
Once again, many thanks.
John V.
jvigorNOSPAM@earthlink.net
I'm surprised that Cape Dory supplied 3/4-inch track and tiny blocks on the cabintop. You'd think they would have figured it out by the time they got to hull #251. I agree with those of you who feel that this system seems too flimsy to handle the loads imposed by a working jib or storm jib in heavy weather, and like Andy Denmark I intend to upgrade to 1-inch track and heftier blocks.
Once again, many thanks.
John V.
jvigorNOSPAM@earthlink.net